Wayne-Tec Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 On 7/15/2017 at 1:32 AM, sfcityduck said: Frankly, to my mind, they were far less crazy than collectors today. Encapsulation had not turned comic books into baseball cards yet, so content meant more to them "back then" than covers. Which is a pretty rational way to view a collectible that is a book with interior contents, not a two dimensional card or poster, and which really can't stand up to being put on display the way equivalently valued fine art is. Of course, the type of content that mattered to them was not just first appearances, but also origins of characters, significant story lines, stories of special artistic merit, content important to comic history, etc. In short, what drove the value of books back then seems, to me, to have been a broader array of factors and a more intellectual and historically driven view of the hobby. The Gerber book and encapsulation havn't eliminated those considerations for collectors, but it sure has made them less of a factor for many collectors who appear to focus on covers and financial factors. From my weird perspective of being a collector in the 70s and 80s, parking the hobby, and only really re-discovering it 10 years ago after encapsulation had changed the hobby (sort of like being Buck Rogers in going from one era to another without seeing the evolution), a lot of the modern attitudes are simply inexplicable. Which of course, doesn't change supply or demand. It just makes me scratch my head at how demand has changed. I think that if one had no exposure to current FMV, but had access to the information needed to educate themselves about the wealth of books the GA has to offer, they wouldn't expect the Top-30 GA books via FMV to be the actual Top-30. It also seems, in some ways, like the pool of collectors that make up the GA market don't know exactly what kind of collectors they want to be. Take the average, big-time spender who has dropped five-figures on a Detective Comics #35 and ask them to detail what happened in the Batman story. I'd be surprised if more than half would be able to provided a detailed summary. But it's not just cover-driven books either. Ask a six-figured spender to detail what happened in Batman #1 and see how detailed the response is. I suspect it would be something to the effect of: "There's the first Joker story where Batman and Robin foil his crime. There's a Catwoman story and she's not wearing a mask. I think there's also a story without Robin, which is weird because he's in the other stories." Everyone has the right to know, or not know, whatever they please. But from an investment perspective, it's shaky ground to see collectors investing top-dollar into stories they rarely, or barely even read. Knightsofold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfcityduck Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 45 minutes ago, Wayne-Tec said: Take the average, big-time spender who has dropped five-figures on a Detective Comics #35 and ask them to detail what happened in the Batman story. I'd be surprised if more than half would be able to provided a detailed summary. But it's not just cover-driven books either. Ask a six-figured spender to detail what happened in Batman #1 and see how detailed the response is. I suspect it would be something to the effect of: "There's the first Joker story where Batman and Robin foil his crime. There's a Catwoman story and she's not wearing a mask. I think there's also a story without Robin, which is weird because he's in the other stories." Everyone has the right to know, or not know, whatever they please. But from an investment perspective, it's shaky ground to see collectors investing top-dollar into stories they rarely, or barely even read. Do you know any "average, big time spenders" who are as you describe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfcityduck Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 48 minutes ago, Wayne-Tec said: But from an investment perspective, it's shaky ground to see collectors investing top-dollar into stories they rarely, or barely even read. From an "investment perspective," in today's market, I don't think it matters if someone has read the interior of the comic or not. To the extent that a comic book can properly be called an "investment," as opposed to a "speculation," the value is not derived from the contents or the quality of the book. It is derived from the perceived desirability and rarity of the book, and increasingly really of the cover, and you don't need to read the contents of Fantastic 3 or Suspense 3 to get a sense of the "hype" which is driving the reputation of the book. In fact, you are better off ignoring the book and reading this board. "Collectors" can be very irrational and changeable, which is "investing" in comics is a speculative enterprise. Knightsofold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne-Tec Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 hours ago, sfcityduck said: Do you know any "average, big time spenders" who are as you describe? Poor wording on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne-Tec Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 hours ago, sfcityduck said: From an "investment perspective," in today's market, I don't think it matters if someone has read the interior of the comic or not. To the extent that a comic book can properly be called an "investment," as opposed to a "speculation," the value is not derived from the contents or the quality of the book. It is derived from the perceived desirability and rarity of the book, and increasingly really of the cover, and you don't need to read the contents of Fantastic 3 or Suspense 3 to get a sense of the "hype" which is driving the reputation of the book. In fact, you are better off ignoring the book and reading this board. "Collectors" can be very irrational and changeable, which is "investing" in comics is a speculative enterprise. I understand where you are coming from and agree, to an extent. But I would never say reading the interior doesn't matter, just that the lack thereof appears to be becoming more prevalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightsofold Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I collect Schomburg Timely WWII books and have no idea what's on the inside nor do I care. In the case of Schomburg Timely WWII "classic covers" how does my not caring about the interiors matter at all? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne-Tec Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Knightsofold said: I collect Schomburg Timely WWII books and have no idea what's on the inside nor do I care. In the case of Schomburg Timely WWII "classic covers" how does my not caring about the interiors matter at all? Just curious. One collects whatever they enjoy, and to that end, it wouldn't matter so long as the purchases are worth your while. But these are "comic books", not just "comic covers." So to be unfamiliar with all of the interior is to be unfamiliar with 32 of the 33 wraps (96.9% of the book), cover included. Naturally, the cover wrap carries more weight than most story wraps, but you get the idea. What if I spent $X on a first printing copy of Dracula, but never read the novel itself? If owning it made me happy regardless, it's a worthwhile endeavor. I think the more we know about what we're buying, the more we have to appreciate. Owning a guitar used by Jimi Hendrix in-studio would be very cool. But being very familiar with the depth of of his musical catalog, knowing the songs he recorded using that very guitar...that would add so much more. Edited July 20, 2017 by Wayne-Tec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 On 7/14/2017 at 11:17 PM, circumstances said: I still personally prefer a Marvel Comics 1 to a Cap 1 today. Especially an October. Value aside. Just personal preference. There's no place for personal preferences on these boards circumstances 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 When is someone going to post Bob Over (the hill ) Street's 2017 GA Hierarchy ? jabats 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Overstreet still has AA 16 at #4. I personally love the ranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said: Overstreet still has AA 16 at #4. I personally love the ranking. I took a quick look at Overstrret's Top 100 when I was in the LCS today. Although AA 16 is still staying in the #4 spot, it looks Batman 1 has now moved into the Top 5 ahead of Marvel Comics 1. And Mitch is not going to be happy about this, but it looks like Cap 1 dropped 1 spot since Action 7 moved ahead of it into the #7 spot. Edited July 21, 2017 by lou_fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman2006 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said: Overstreet still has AA 16 at #4. I personally love the ranking. Personally, I'd put Cap #1 above it. And personally I would rank Flash #1 and AA #16 much closer together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedude Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, lou_fine said: I took a quick look at Overstrret's Top 100 when I was in the LCS today. Although AA 16 is still staying in the #4 spot, it looks Batman 1 has now moved into the Top 5 ahead of Marvel Comics 1. As it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne-Tec Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 The 2017 OSPG has Cap #1 in 2.0 at $21,000. How much would a blue label 2.0 sell for at auction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 34 minutes ago, Wayne-Tec said: The 2017 OSPG has Cap #1 in 2.0 at $21,000. How much would a blue label 2.0 sell for at auction? $21,000 according to ospg! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wayne-Tec said: The 2017 OSPG has Cap #1 in 2.0 at $21,000. How much would a blue label 2.0 sell for at auction? The Cap 1 doesn't really bother me that much as it's just absolute dollars we are talking about. It's the Cap 3 which he still has valued significantly lower than Cap 2, when everybody in the marketplace (except for poor old Bob himself) knows that Cap 3 has a higher market value than Cap 2 and it has been that way for years now. At least he should get the relative values lined up properly. Edited July 21, 2017 by lou_fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, G.A.tor said: $21,000 according to ospg! Rick, What's the thought process and the AA 16 ranking ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Chicago Boy said: Rick, What's the thought process and the AA 16 ranking ? Bob didn't pay attention to the entire market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderturtle Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, G.A.tor said: $21,000 according to ospg! , if that's the case the 2.5 on cl is a ripoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Spiderturtle said: 1 hour ago, G.A.tor said: $21,000 according to ospg! , if that's the case the 2.5 on cl is a ripoff At $95K for that fugly clearly overgraded 2.5 copy, that is not the real world either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
