Bronty Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 36 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said: You think THIS is worth $20-30 grand? http://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fsection.asp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26id%3D1398%26f1%3Di.Price%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di.Publisher%26ODire2%3DDESC%26f3%3Di.IssueNumber%2C%2Bi.Genre%26ODire3%3DASC&id=979244 If its your money, sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timely Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I am NOT A FAN of Hake's bidding style. In order to be a high bidder you HAVE TO BID 10% HIGHER than the top bidder. I was actually high bidder on 2 items, but still lost. Example. Winning bidder had a max bid of $700. I bid $702 but lost because I needed to bid $770 or more. You have to be 10% over the top bidders max. In the end, consignors loose as does Hakes. Pretty dumb really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twanj Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 28 minutes ago, 1Toy2Many said: What could Hake's do to improve your opinion? There are new initiatives being integrated in their auctions, marketing, etc, so know that someone DOES care what you think and what you'd like to see. The bidding is confusing. I had two tabs open, refreshed at the same time. The same item was listed as "10 minute warning" & "1 hr 50 min" remaining or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewincanada Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Bronty said: One zero, more like! I really want to sell you some no-cap panel pages Well, as far as no-cap panel pages go, it is a nice no-cap panel page. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I won an Aurora model for my tracking bid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Toy2Many Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 15 minutes ago, Twanj said: The bidding is confusing. I had two tabs open, refreshed at the same time. The same item was listed as "10 minute warning" & "1 hr 50 min" remaining or something like that. I appreciate the specific feedback. How it works now is a combination of 10-minute minimums and 3 hour maximums. This is something they have settled in to since the early internet days to prolong the bidding so everyone has a shot, while still providing some sort of end in sight. That said, we've discussed this specific subject because you're not the only one who's expressed the same thoughts. Bottom line, until/if the bidding is modified, think of the auction ending as a "funnel" and as the auction "ends" at noon, any pieces that haven't had bids in the past 3 hours will close exactly then. If an item was bid on at 10:07am, it ends at 1:07pm, etc etc, and this continues as the entire auction continues to end. Pretty soon, instead of having 10000 items open, only a couple dozen remain. As it gets closer and closer to ALL of the items being sold, the maximum time continually decreases and you're left with only a few items still being bid on with a minimum time limit of 10 minutes. In other words, if you're outbid, you'll always have 10 minutes minimum to react. You might have as long as 3 hours, depending on how many other lots are left, but you're only guaranteed the 10 minutes. That's what they found their regular customers preferred over the course of many years, as it eliminates sniping and still allows heavily-contested items a fair chance to continue bidding. In essence, the 3 hours is for the sellers and the 10 minutes is for the buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Toy2Many Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 40 minutes ago, Timely said: I am NOT A FAN of Hake's bidding style. In order to be a high bidder you HAVE TO BID 10% HIGHER than the top bidder. I was actually high bidder on 2 items, but still lost. Example. Winning bidder had a max bid of $700. I bid $702 but lost because I needed to bid $770 or more. You have to be 10% over the top bidders max. In the end, consignors loose as does Hakes. Pretty dumb really. I can't make any promises, but there are two specific things on my list of things to discuss and this has been one of them. At the very least I'd like to know the reason why it's done this way and, at this time, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggy Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Just received my email confirmation of my winnings. 1Toy2Many 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glendgold Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 2 hours ago, 1Toy2Many said: I can't make any promises, but there are two specific things on my list of things to discuss and this has been one of them. At the very least I'd like to know the reason why it's done this way and, at this time, I don't know. Hey there, 1Toy2Many -- do you represent Hake's or are you someone who buys from them and is trying to have input on how they do things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumur Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Timely said: I am NOT A FAN of Hake's bidding style. In order to be a high bidder you HAVE TO BID 10% HIGHER than the top bidder. I was actually high bidder on 2 items, but still lost. Example. Winning bidder had a max bid of $700. I bid $702 but lost because I needed to bid $770 or more. You have to be 10% over the top bidders max. In the end, consignors loose as does Hakes. Pretty dumb really. Ah... maybe that is how my high bid was exactly the winning bid. That someone outbid me, but not by more than 10% and so I won it on my max bid. That is a weird system though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumur Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Twanj said: The bidding is confusing. I had two tabs open, refreshed at the same time. The same item was listed as "10 minute warning" & "1 hr 50 min" remaining or something like that. Yeah, and it looks like time gets added if bids continue? Like I said, I won completely by mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumur Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 3 hours ago, 1Toy2Many said: I appreciate the specific feedback. How it works now is a combination of 10-minute minimums and 3 hour maximums. This is something they have settled in to since the early internet days to prolong the bidding so everyone has a shot, while still providing some sort of end in sight. That said, we've discussed this specific subject because you're not the only one who's expressed the same thoughts. Bottom line, until/if the bidding is modified, think of the auction ending as a "funnel" and as the auction "ends" at noon, any pieces that haven't had bids in the past 3 hours will close exactly then. If an item was bid on at 10:07am, it ends at 1:07pm, etc etc, and this continues as the entire auction continues to end. Pretty soon, instead of having 10000 items open, only a couple dozen remain. As it gets closer and closer to ALL of the items being sold, the maximum time continually decreases and you're left with only a few items still being bid on with a minimum time limit of 10 minutes. In other words, if you're outbid, you'll always have 10 minutes minimum to react. You might have as long as 3 hours, depending on how many other lots are left, but you're only guaranteed the 10 minutes. That's what they found their regular customers preferred over the course of many years, as it eliminates sniping and still allows heavily-contested items a fair chance to continue bidding. In essence, the 3 hours is for the sellers and the 10 minutes is for the buyers. Ah, thank you for the clarification. Good ot know for the future and hey... I won an item I wanted, so I'm happy. I hope you it grows as an auction house as I appreciate healthy competition and would love another viable option for consigning. 1Toy2Many 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Toy2Many Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 2 hours ago, glendgold said: Hey there, 1Toy2Many -- do you represent Hake's or are you someone who buys from them and is trying to have input on how they do things? I'm Sean Rutan and I consult with Hake's specifically in OA. I've been a fan of their auctions for many years and a buyer as both a toy collector and an art collector, but this was my first auction with any specific role or input. We are integrating new things to broaden our impact in comic art and I absolutely value any input you all are willing to provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Toy2Many Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Dumur said: Ah, thank you for the clarification. Good ot know for the future and hey... I won an item I wanted, so I'm happy. I hope you it grows as an auction house as I appreciate healthy competition and would love another viable option for consigning. I'm glad to hear it and I truly appreciate the insights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twanj Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 41 minutes ago, 1Toy2Many said: I'm Sean Rutan and I consult with Hake's specifically in OA. I've been a fan of their auctions for many years and a buyer as both a toy collector and an art collector, but this was my first auction with any specific role or input. We are integrating new things to broaden our impact in comic art and I absolutely value any input you all are willing to provide. The wantlist/email alerts needs to be like HA/CL where you can specify artists or keywords. Unless it already is & I'm missing something. 1Toy2Many 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Toy2Many Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Just now, Twanj said: The wantlist/email alerts needs to be like HA/CL where you can specify artists or keywords. Unless it already is & I'm missing something. Good stuff. Keep it coming and I will check on this. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glendgold Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Congrats to them on their successes in OA. They've drummed up some pretty stunning prices. Two issues have already been brought up that are important. First: the bidding increments are lousy. 10% might work when you've got items under $1000 (maybe) but the higher you go, the more game theory you have to get trained in to make a bid. This can't be good for the results, either, because making such a massive bid over the previous one is psychologically daunting, and knowing how to bid against someone requires that you have a calculator at hand, which is silly. Is there a reason they can't use standard bidding increments as used by pretty much every other auction house? Second: the closing of the auctions. Holy cats. I was the high bidder at the end of an auction, and a friend of mine and I had to text each other back and forth multiple times, even after reading the website instructions, to understand if a) the auction was over or not (it wasn't) and if I was actually the high bidder (I was). The system is Rube Goldberged, and maybe it made sense back in the analog days, when people were faxing bids in on parchment, and it took time to crack the sealing wax, but it's evolved into something pretty inexplicable. I appreciate the "funnel" analogy, but...why? It seems needlessly complicated. And the website isn't set up to actually do the job they want to (there's no clock on the auctions after they 'end', so there's no way to know how much longer they're going to last. for instance). I'm a bid-high-at-the-last-second guy, but I appreciate that other folks feel annoyed by that, so if that's the way to do it, then why not this? Auctions end at noon. If someone bids before then, they're automatically extended 10 minutes. With every bid, another 10 minute extension. Does it need to be more complicated than that? The three hour jump means that those of us who planned to hang out at the end of the auction then have to hang out...again...three hours later? At which point the auction will end without us seeing the clock, so we need a stopwatch...and the calculator I mentioned. I'd love to see the improvements. Hake's has so much cool stuff that comes through. 1Toy2Many and Twanj 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewincanada Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 To add to Glen's point, if I bid at 11:50 am and the auction is automatically extended for three more hours, I don't want to sit by my computer for the next theee hours to see if anyone else bids. But if I go away and return 3 hours later, and discover that in the interim someone else did outbid me, there is no way to tell when that person bid - and therefore no way to tell how much longer the auction has been extended beyond my initial 3 hour extension. It's a guess as to when the auction will actually close. The whole process is too convoluted and lacks transparency. 1Toy2Many 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Toy2Many Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I get what both of you are saying and the rebuttal to the time delay is that the live auctioneer system employed by other auction houses is also difficult to predict and requires you to sit and watch. For example, if you're trying to win item 6794, you've got to wait an indeterminate amount of time while other pieces bid out to finally GET to #6794. We do offer text and phone alerts from a live person who will contact you at any point when you're outbid as well, and they can proxy a bid for you directly over the phone, so if you can't watch or don't want to watch you're not forced to do so. You also get an email that immediately lets you know you've been outbid, which at least offers a direct and specific time stamp. Now, if this happens late in the auction, you really don't have any way of knowing how much (maximum) longer you have, so I always personally default to the 10-minute minimum at this point. The big thing is that the consignors - especially the ones who've been loyal for decades - like to maximize their items' visibility and bid-ability. Buyers, on the other hand, want the ability to snatch it quick and know they've won without the stressful wait, so the trick is trying to compromise for both. I'm not offering these responses to belittle your suggestions. They are legit and I understand them. I'm only trying to illuminate the fact that there are many repeat users who LIKE the old way, so if I'm going to get any traction to make changes I'll need to have a strong argument and, more importantly, a stronger solution when I bring it to the table. It is absolutely a bullet point on my list, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 15 hours ago, Bronty said: If its your money, sure What? You mean not everyone here has $20K to blow on original art? That seems contrary to every other post on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
