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"Dear American Comics: Here's Why You're Losing Readers to Anime & Manga"
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74 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

The perception that manga is all wide-eyed characters and simple artwork is just wrong....

FullSizeRender.jpg

Exactly. I had that misperception for a long time before I had my eyes opened. Saying I "hate manga" due to that misperception would be like me saying I hate Italian food because I ate at Olive Garden once.

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I don't read too much manga anymore, but based on what I've seen and read, alot of manga/anime storylines involve younger characters, which probably appeals to a younger crowd. They may read now, but that can change as they get older. 

I used to be into anime and manga alittle from my teenage years to my early 20s, but couldn't relate to it as I got older. I got tired of teenagers saving the world from/using giant robots.

Edited by lemonman6
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You guys keep using Manga like it means something specific.  Wait, is Manga a style of comic or does it mean all comics like Amazing Fantasy 15 like Logan says? What's the correct answer?

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1 hour ago, Logan510 said:

Yes :facepalm:

Wtf is your problem? I said I didn't like Manga style comics, without saying one bad thing about those that do enjoy them and you have to turn it into something.  It's obvious that Manga is referenced as a very specific style so saying I don't enjoy it does not mean I don't like traditional Spider-Man or Batman.  Seriously, what is with you sometimes?

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2 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

The perception that manga is all wide-eyed characters and simple artwork is just wrong....

FullSizeRender.jpg

totally agree. There are as many different styles of manga as there are western comic art styles. I haven't kept up much in recent years, but there are some really terrific books out there. 

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4 hours ago, mattn792 said:

As a fellow bone claw era hater, I recommend you pick up 145-189.

Ok I'll do that.  I read up until around 100 or so but at about that time I had just finished HS and had gotten into partying, women, etc so comics were the last thing on my mind.  I have only really gotten serious about collecting again in the past year- but all I am buying is bronze and silver and copper that I finally can get now since I have more buying power than when I was 13.  :headbang:   But, I do still read most of what I buy so if you say they are good I'll give them a shot. 

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1 hour ago, CAHokie said:

Wtf is your problem? I said I didn't like Manga style comics, without saying one bad thing about those that do enjoy them and you have to turn it into something.  It's obvious that Manga is referenced as a very specific style so saying I don't enjoy it does not mean I don't like traditional Spider-Man or Batman.  Seriously, what is with you sometimes?

Don't take it so personal, I wasn't using ignorant as a pejorative.

 

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1 hour ago, CAHokie said:

You guys keep using Manga like it means something specific.  Wait, is Manga a style of comic or does it mean all comics like Amazing Fantasy 15 like Logan says? What's the correct answer?

Manga means comics. There are many styles and genres, just like we have in the US. If someone tells me they hate comics I don't automatically assume they mean superheros, unless it's someone who I know is ignorant about the medium.

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33 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

Manga means comics.

Not really, no. They certainly can't be used interchangeably. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/manga?s=t

33 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

There are many styles

So is there a big conspiracy between all comic shops, bookstores, etc. to hide the good styles so nobody ever sees them? (shrug)

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3 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Not really, no. They certainly can't be used interchangeably. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/manga?s=t

So is there a big conspiracy between all comic shops, bookstores, etc. to hide the good styles so nobody ever sees them? (shrug)

In Japan they call "comics", manga.

As to your other statement....:facepalm:

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Good Lord *choke* !  What passes for articles these days.... Twitter makes me crazy.  If you can't say what you want to say in 140 (or whatever the stupid number is) characters or less, move to a different platform.   And if you're going to make an article out of nothing but quotes, for the love of all that is holy, quote people instead of just posting shots of their Tweets.  

Anyway, my Manga experience, like many older collectors, is very limited.  I read and enjoyed Akira but was a bit underwhelmed by the film.  I guess you could argue that the book is better than the movie!  Lone Wolf and Cub also held my interest for many issues but beyond those two, I haven't been even remotely enticed by other Manga titles.  To me, there is a different visual language (not trying to be funny) in Manga that I simply don't understand.  I suppose if I read more, I might eventually understand it better.  

My big problem with Manga is the first one that most of the uninitiated seem to give, it all looks alike.  I see three basic styles, the giant eyes which looks to generally be lighter and funnier books, the epic sci-fi style which looks to be the books like Macross, Full Metal Alchemist and then the hybrid of the two which look to be the "slice of life" mentioned so many times.  I'm sure I'm overgeneralizing, but that's what my casually observing eye sees.  I also thought that it was funny that one of the complaints about American books at the top of the page was "This means what you see on the cover might not be an accurate representation of what you'll be reading" but at the bottom of the page reads "...a new reader has to go by looking at the cover art -- which may or may not be a good indicator of the content within."  At least in this aspect, the American comics and Manga are very similar despite what the author of the article would have the reader believe.  

A solid point that was brought up is the American comic shop system and the direct market.  I'm very familiar with it but no longer participate as it seemed absurd to me to pay $5 a month to find out what I'm going to spend money on 2 months from now.  I can see how this pre-order driven market would be confusing and overwhelming to a new reader/collector.  In hanging out and talking with the owner of my LCS, I've seen a shift in the buying/reading habits of customers.  He has talked about fewer people buying the monthly books, holding out for the collections (TPBs) instead.  The older readers buy the monthly books and younger readers get the collections preferring to get the story rather than the collectible, plus the collection is generally cheaper than getting the individual books.  

I did like the point in the article that Japan knows how to market comics better.  The implication is that it's because there are more types of stories but if one looks at the indie market, there are all kinds of books and stories available.  Optic Nerve is a "slice of life" book that I thought was amazing but it never moved past the indie publishers.  I've recommended it many times and, of the people that have read it, no one came back unhappy.  That it's not widely known is a failure of marketing in my mind.  I loved Cerebus and Matt Kindt's Mind MGMT was one of the best books I've read in years.  For those keeping score at home, the three titles I mention are all creator owned, another facet hyped in the article.  

All in all, I don't know that one is superior to the other, they're just different and appeal to different demographics.  To the Manga fans here, what's a good example of a high quality title?  I'm open to a lot but to be fair, I'm not a fantasy or monster (of any kind, vampires to Godzilla, they just don't appeal to me) fan so lets avoid those.  It doesn't have to be Watchmen level stuff, just a good read.  I'll try it!  

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43 minutes ago, MedicAR said:

Good Lord *choke* !  What passes for articles these days.... Twitter makes me crazy.  If you can't say what you want to say in 140 (or whatever the stupid number is) characters or less, move to a different platform.   And if you're going to make an article out of nothing but quotes, for the love of all that is holy, quote people instead of just posting shots of their Tweets.  

Anyway, my Manga experience, like many older collectors, is very limited.  I read and enjoyed Akira but was a bit underwhelmed by the film.  I guess you could argue that the book is better than the movie!  Lone Wolf and Cub also held my interest for many issues but beyond those two, I haven't been even remotely enticed by other Manga titles.  To me, there is a different visual language (not trying to be funny) in Manga that I simply don't understand.  I suppose if I read more, I might eventually understand it better.  

My big problem with Manga is the first one that most of the uninitiated seem to give, it all looks alike.  I see three basic styles, the giant eyes which looks to generally be lighter and funnier books, the epic sci-fi style which looks to be the books like Macross, Full Metal Alchemist and then the hybrid of the two which look to be the "slice of life" mentioned so many times.  I'm sure I'm overgeneralizing, but that's what my casually observing eye sees.  I also thought that it was funny that one of the complaints about American books at the top of the page was "This means what you see on the cover might not be an accurate representation of what you'll be reading" but at the bottom of the page reads "...a new reader has to go by looking at the cover art -- which may or may not be a good indicator of the content within."  At least in this aspect, the American comics and Manga are very similar despite what the author of the article would have the reader believe.  

A solid point that was brought up is the American comic shop system and the direct market.  I'm very familiar with it but no longer participate as it seemed absurd to me to pay $5 a month to find out what I'm going to spend money on 2 months from now.  I can see how this pre-order driven market would be confusing and overwhelming to a new reader/collector.  In hanging out and talking with the owner of my LCS, I've seen a shift in the buying/reading habits of customers.  He has talked about fewer people buying the monthly books, holding out for the collections (TPBs) instead.  The older readers buy the monthly books and younger readers get the collections preferring to get the story rather than the collectible, plus the collection is generally cheaper than getting the individual books.  

I did like the point in the article that Japan knows how to market comics better.  The implication is that it's because there are more types of stories but if one looks at the indie market, there are all kinds of books and stories available.  Optic Nerve is a "slice of life" book that I thought was amazing but it never moved past the indie publishers.  I've recommended it many times and, of the people that have read it, no one came back unhappy.  That it's not widely known is a failure of marketing in my mind.  I loved Cerebus and Matt Kindt's Mind MGMT was one of the best books I've read in years.  For those keeping score at home, the three titles I mention are all creator owned, another facet hyped in the article.  

All in all, I don't know that one is superior to the other, they're just different and appeal to different demographics.  To the Manga fans here, what's a good example of a high quality title?  I'm open to a lot but to be fair, I'm not a fantasy or monster (of any kind, vampires to Godzilla, they just don't appeal to me) fan so lets avoid those.  It doesn't have to be Watchmen level stuff, just a good read.  I'll try it!  

Comic books here still carry a stigma ( even with all the mainstream movies ) they do not in Japan. Comics are more widely accepted among the masses, which means that titles here which may be considered "adult" or "sophisticated" yet have a tiny audience can thrive and be successful there.

 

Saying they only have "3 styles" and " all look alike" is like someone saying all american comics look like Kirby, Miller and Perez, which we know is not true.

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10 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

Comic books here still carry a stigma ( even with all the mainstream movies ) they do not in Japan. Comics are more widely accepted among the masses, which means that titles here which may be considered "adult" or "sophisticated" yet have a tiny audience can thrive and be successful there.

 

Saying they only have "3 styles" and " all look alike" is like someone saying all american comics look like Kirby, Miller and Perez, which we know is not true.

We're still waiting for recommendations.  What's a manga title for us comic guys to start on that doesn't look like Teen Titans Go, and isn't filled with upskirt panty shots and phallus monsters?

Edited by FineCollector
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1 minute ago, FineCollector said:

We're still waiting for recommendations.  What's a manga title for us comic guys to start on that doesn't look like Teen Titans Go, and isn't filled with upskirt panty shots and monsters?

What are you looking for? They have a ton of genres and styles. Do you want sports, drama, funny, horror, action, sci fi?

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7 hours ago, FineCollector said:

We're still waiting for recommendations.  What's a manga title for us comic guys to start on that doesn't look like Teen Titans Go, and isn't filled with upskirt panty shots and phallus monsters?

As opposed to the perfect musculature male in tight spandex fighting the equally perfect musculature male in tight spandex? (Who incidentally, HIDES his dress up fantasy from his supposed 'love' interest, to instead continue his spandex nemesis grappling?) Thats'a less mainstream type of manga in Japan!

But seriously, here are some recommendations:

Deathnote: About a high school student who finds a Shinigami (Deathgod) notebook - anyone who's name is written in it, dies. He decides to use it to rid the world of evil, but... not only does the Shinigami himself complicate matters, but the real world blurs the lines between good and bad....When a special agent is assigned to find out who is behind these mysterious death's, and starts to get close, is that a good reason to kill someone? 

You can get the 'Black' version of this, Volume 1, on Amazon for $10.59 (free shipping) - contains 400 pages!

 

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Screen Shot 2017-07-15 at 8.29.50 AM.png

Edited by Chuck Gower
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