New Overstreet out today, any huge movers? 1 1

[Jayman]

Anyone know the stats on HOS 92?

[bellrules]

Original Slush Puppies topped Slurpees every time

 

[lou_fine]

On 7/20/2017 at 6:37 AM, ygogolak said:

On 7/19/2017 at 6:07 PM, Hey Kids, Comics! said:

Isn't the new volume already out of date and obsolete for prices? 

It's good for older books. Moderns move up and down so much the only good way to get a value is eBay.

Are you referring to BA and CA books here?

Remember, it's only supposed to be a guide and really nothing more than that from a valuation point of view.

[ygogolak]

7 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Are you referring to BA and CA books here?

Remember, it's only supposed to be a guide and really nothing more than that from a valuation point of view.

Yea, barely Copper books. Those can still move around quickly because of a movie.

[lou_fine]

13 hours ago, lou_fine said:

On 7/20/2017 at 6:37 AM, ygogolak said:

It's good for older books. Moderns move up and down so much the only good way to get a value is eBay.

Are you referring to BA and CA books here?

Remember, it's only supposed to be a guide and really nothing more than that from a valuation point of view.

 

6 hours ago, ygogolak said:

Yea, barely Copper books. Those can still move around quickly because of a movie.

Since you are referring mostly to Moderns, I thought most of them are really worth only cover value, if that, unless they are into the nosebleed grades which the Overstreet guide does not even attempt to report on since that is a 100% volatile and pure speculative market.

Is he really that far off with respect to his valuation for CGC NM- 9.2 copies of books such as Walking Dead, NYX 3, NM 98, BA 12, etc. as most of the other common Moderns probably really doesn't carry much value in the marketplace unless they are in CGC 9.8 condition. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

On 7/28/2017 at 1:47 PM, Jayman said:

Anyone know the stats on HOS 92?

Looks like HOS 92 went $1,500 up to $1,800 in top of guide for a percentage increase of 20%. 

Good enough for it to retain the #6 spot in Overstreet's Top 10 BA Chart.

At bottom of guide, it looks like HOS 92 only went from $90 up to $100 for a percentage increase of only 11.1%.

I would assume from these percentage increase that this book must still be available in grade, unlike many of the key or semi-key GA books which Overstreet now has accelerating in valuation at a substantially faster rate than high grade copies which in many cases never even hits the marketplace.   

[ygogolak]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

 

Since you are referring mostly to Moderns, I thought most of them are really worth only cover value, if that, unless they are into the nosebleed grades which the Overstreet guide does not even attempt to report on since that is a 100% volatile and pure speculative market.

Is he really that far off with respect to his valuation for CGC NM- 9.2 copies of books such as Walking Dead, NYX 3, NM 98, BA 12, etc. as most of the other common Moderns probably really doesn't carry much value in the marketplace unless they are in CGC 9.8 condition. 

In general, a printed guide is only as good as a couple moths before it's printed anymore.

In terms of Moderns, for example; the new Avengers movie, next year, is going to have the Black Order. A free comic book, Infinity FCBD, is now a $15 book. The guide can't adjust like that.

[JTLarsen]

An incomplete sampling of huge movers:

Catwoman #51. Up 2400% over last year. Hughes Catwoman covers made a huge jump this year. Not just broken out but also values shot up. Recognition of Hughes price increases was spotty, however. Some titles reflect it. Others, such as Wonder Woman, still don't. 

Batman 635. Up 900% over last year. 1st Jason Todd as Red Hood.

Batman and Robin Adventures 21. Also up 900%. Classic Batgirl (animated) cover.

Zatanna 16. Also up 900%. Another series where Hughes got his due. Zatanna and other classic female superheroes showed up strong in this year's Overstreet. Interestingly, as noted above, Wonder Woman didn't enjoy a similar surge. It's almost as if the B-list superheroines were the focus. I'm guessing Wonder Woman will flex her muscles in next year's.

DC Comics Presents 49. Up 775%. Black Adam, if memory serves.

Superman Annual 11. Up 733%. The impact and influence of Moore's standouts are becoming clearer as the years pass. This story, and Moore's last Superman two-parter, are all-time classics that will always speak to people's love for Superman.

New Mutants 25. Up 400%. Legion (26 up, too).

Richard Dragon 5. Up 400%. First Lady Shiva. Surprised by this one, as I'm not aware of the character having penetrated the market so much to enjoy this kind of interest. That said, I've always appreciated her appearances.

Tomahawk 116. Up 400%. An amazing, overdue jump. This stunning, classic Neal Adams cover was long overdue for recognition of just how hard (impossible) it is to find in high grade. It's now a $500 book in 9.2, and I'm guess would sell for considerably more than that. Adams for decades was accompanied by other artists, especially Wrightson, in terms of collector interest and value. That's not the case any longer. The prices in this year's Overstreet suggest that Neal Adams has become the dominant artist of his time, in the way that Jack Kirby was before him. As an uninformed, young collector, I knew this on an intuitive level all along. It's now becoming codified as reality.

Firestorm 3. Up 150%. First Killer Frost.

Promethea 32. Up 150%. Final issue of a jaw-dropping, stunning, overlooked series of Alan Moore brilliance.

Zatanna 1 (Bolland variant). Up 150%. Weirdly, Bolland's Wonder Woman covers remain mired in the surrounding issues. Even 72.

Action 835. Up 50%. First in-continuity Livewire. Weirdly, her first appearance AT ALL is not yet broken out.

Detective 359. Up 80%. First Batgirl. It won't grow at as fast a pace, but it will keep growing.

JLA 75. Up 75%. Green Arrow's new costume.

Miscellaneous Harleys, Neal Adamses and other books also got considerable bumps. Other notable individual issues: Batman 423 (McFarlane cover), House of Secrets 92, Some classic Dave Stevens covers. Joker covers... 

[lou_fine]

13 hours ago, JTLarsen said:

Tomahawk 116. Up 400%. An amazing, overdue jump. This stunning, classic Neal Adams cover was long overdue for recognition of just how hard (impossible) it is to find in high grade. It's now a $500 book in 9.2, and I'm guess would sell for considerably more than that.

Detective 359. Up 80%. First Batgirl. It won't grow at as fast a pace, but it will keep growing.

Wow, all of this analysis and research must have taken some time and work. 

You are definitely right about the Tomahawk 116 with the classic Adams cover and 'Tec 359 with the first Batgirl because both of these books have been extremely hot.  Especially with the Tomahawk by Adams being truly as rare as hen's teeth to track down and long overdue for this type of increase. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by lou_fine

[JTLarsen]

50 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Wow, all of this analysis and research must have taken some time and work. 

You are definitely right about the Tomahawk 116 with the classic Adams cover and 'Tec 359 with the first Batgirl because both of these books have been extremely hot.  Especially with the Tomahawk by Adams being truly as rare as hen's teeth to track down and long overdue for this type of increase. 

Not TOO much work. I keep a running database that calculates increases as new data comes in. Helps me notice when things are starting to pop...! I do think a Tomahawk 116 in true 9.2 would probably be a thousand-dollar book, but for conservative Overstreet to quintuple the value in just one year is a powerful statement. The Hughes breakouts were, too...with more to come in subsequent years, I'm sure.

[Jeffreykli]

On 7/31/2017 at 8:19 PM, JTLarsen said:

JLA 75. Up 75%. Green Arrow's new costume.

JLA #75 is up because of Black Canary, not Green Arrow.

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, Jeffreykli said:

On 7/31/2017 at 8:19 PM, JTLarsen said:

JLA 75. Up 75%. Green Arrow's new costume.

JLA #75 is up because of Black Canary, not Green Arrow.

According to Overstreet, it looks as though the Black Canary joined the JLA in the previous issue, namely JLA #74.     

[Brian48]

JLA 75 is the second appearance of GA in the new costume, right?  I know BB #85 is the first appearance, but not sure what is the 2nd.

[JTLarsen]

8 hours ago, Jeffreykli said:

JLA #75 is up because of Black Canary, not Green Arrow.

Which we know becaaaauuuuse......?

[F For Fake]

Still haven't finished reading last year's yet! I don't use the actual guide very often, but I always enjoy reading the market reports and looking through the picture galleries. I always sort of think of Overstreet as a Yearbook for comics. I'll pick a new one up whenever I go to a show that the Hero Initiative is set up at, so I can snag one of their exclusive covers while also helping the charity out.

[ygogolak]

On 7/31/2017 at 11:19 PM, JTLarsen said:

An incomplete sampling of huge movers:

Catwoman #51. Up 2400% over last year. Hughes Catwoman covers made a huge jump this year. Not just broken out but also values shot up. Recognition of Hughes price increases was spotty, however. Some titles reflect it. Others, such as Wonder Woman, still don't. 

Batman 635. Up 900% over last year. 1st Jason Todd as Red Hood.

Batman and Robin Adventures 21. Also up 900%. Classic Batgirl (animated) cover.

Zatanna 16. Also up 900%. Another series where Hughes got his due. Zatanna and other classic female superheroes showed up strong in this year's Overstreet. Interestingly, as noted above, Wonder Woman didn't enjoy a similar surge. It's almost as if the B-list superheroines were the focus. I'm guessing Wonder Woman will flex her muscles in next year's.

DC Comics Presents 49. Up 775%. Black Adam, if memory serves.

Superman Annual 11. Up 733%. The impact and influence of Moore's standouts are becoming clearer as the years pass. This story, and Moore's last Superman two-parter, are all-time classics that will always speak to people's love for Superman.

New Mutants 25. Up 400%. Legion (26 up, too).

Richard Dragon 5. Up 400%. First Lady Shiva. Surprised by this one, as I'm not aware of the character having penetrated the market so much to enjoy this kind of interest. That said, I've always appreciated her appearances.

Tomahawk 116. Up 400%. An amazing, overdue jump. This stunning, classic Neal Adams cover was long overdue for recognition of just how hard (impossible) it is to find in high grade. It's now a $500 book in 9.2, and I'm guess would sell for considerably more than that. Adams for decades was accompanied by other artists, especially Wrightson, in terms of collector interest and value. That's not the case any longer. The prices in this year's Overstreet suggest that Neal Adams has become the dominant artist of his time, in the way that Jack Kirby was before him. As an uninformed, young collector, I knew this on an intuitive level all along. It's now becoming codified as reality.

Firestorm 3. Up 150%. First Killer Frost.

Promethea 32. Up 150%. Final issue of a jaw-dropping, stunning, overlooked series of Alan Moore brilliance.

Zatanna 1 (Bolland variant). Up 150%. Weirdly, Bolland's Wonder Woman covers remain mired in the surrounding issues. Even 72.

Action 835. Up 50%. First in-continuity Livewire. Weirdly, her first appearance AT ALL is not yet broken out.

Detective 359. Up 80%. First Batgirl. It won't grow at as fast a pace, but it will keep growing.

JLA 75. Up 75%. Green Arrow's new costume.

Miscellaneous Harleys, Neal Adamses and other books also got considerable bumps. Other notable individual issues: Batman 423 (McFarlane cover), House of Secrets 92, Some classic Dave Stevens covers. Joker covers... 

Thanks for all the effort.

For me, the % is nice to know but irrelevant without the actual dollar value. As I've said elsewhere, Batman 635 seems to have been 2 years behind in pricing and now is probably where last years prices where.

[Martin Sinescu]

36 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

Thanks for all the effort.

For me, the % is nice to know but irrelevant without the actual dollar value. As I've said elsewhere, Batman 635 seems to have been 2 years behind in pricing and now is probably where last years prices where.

Not even last year's prices, they have it at $30 in this year's guide end I don't think it's been that low for several years. I remember buying a few copies at $40 a couple of years ago and a few more at $60 within the last year or two. Eventually it stretched out to about $90 with the rumors that SS was somehow going to be the springboard for a Leto Red Hood or some such nonsense before tapering off once that spec died out. Also, I think Bats 567 and 666 aren't even broken out from the pack, so the Modern Bats section is definitely in need of some attention as both are $20-25 books.

I was going to mention it before, but it's Modern and this is Bronze so I let it go (until now).

[lou_fine]

50 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

For me, the % is nice to know but irrelevant without the actual dollar value. As I've said elsewhere, Batman 635 seems to have been 2 years behind in pricing and now is probably where last years prices where.

The Overstreet price guide is a historical price guide and is supposedly designed to report on prices for the previous year. 

And so, in this sense, they are bang on in terms of the valuation for Batman 635, which I would actually find surprising since he generally like to see a consolidation in prices before putting them into the price guide. 

They are not like the old highly hyped and speculative Wizard "Price" Guide which really tries more to set the prices for the current marketplace, as opposed to actually reporting on them.  Especially when they were caught with their pants down more than once by"reporting" high valuations on supposedly hot books that had not yet even been distributed due either to creator deadline or shipping problems.     

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by lou_fine

[Crimebuster]

I have been beating the drum on JLA #75 for years. It's essentially the first appearance of the Silver Age Black Canary. Thanks to DC"s multiple universes, though, it's not as clear as a lot of other character's first appearances. However, it was later recognized officially as the first appearance of the Silver Age Black Canary in a really convoluted retcon just before Crisis on Infinite Earths.

In the prior two issues, Black Canary is still on Earth-2 as part of the JSA. During that storyline, her husband, Larry Lance, is killed. At the end of #74, she decides to start a new life on Earth-1 by going to Earth-1 with the Justice League.

#75 is Black Canary's first issue on Earth-1. it's also her first issue as a member of the Justice League. More importantly, it's the first appearance of her Canary Cry, with the explanation that traveling between worlds somehow triggered some kind of mutation. And finally, her relationship with Green Arrow begins in this issue, though it's subtle, as the two of them co-narrate the tale. 

It's a very clear breaking point between the old Golden Age version of the character and the new Silver Age version reimagined by Denny O'Neil. It's also the second appearance of the new look Green Arrow, after B&B #85, also written by O'Neil. 

It was later retconned that the Canary who came to Earth-1 is actually the daughter of the Earth-2 Canary, and she had been in stasis in limbo because her canary cry couldn't be controlled on Earth-2 or something. it's too weird to explain. This retcon was deemed necessary because all the other heroes in the JSA were pushing 65 by that point, only on Earth-1, Black Canary was still young. 

Importantly for viewing #75 as a first appearance, that retcon remained in place post-Crisis - though the details were obviously different, post-Crisis the modern Dinah Lance was the daughter of the original Black Canary, Dinah Drake Lance, who had been a member of the JSA in her youth. The idea that there were two Black Canarys ultimately came from the major changes made to the character in JLA #75.

Her powers, personality, and relationship with Green Arrow all date to this issue. I think it's absolutely the key issue for Black Canary fans after Flash Comics #92. 

 

Having said all that, I'd bet my hat the price bump actually just is because the issue has an iconic black cover that's really hard to find in grade. 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Crimebuster

[JTLarsen]

55 minutes ago, Crimebuster said:

I have been beating the drum on JLA #75 for years. It's essentially the first appearance of the Silver Age Black Canary. Thanks to DC"s multiple universes, though, it's not as clear as a lot of other character's first appearances. However, it was later recognized officially as the first appearance of the Silver Age Black Canary in a really convoluted retcon just before Crisis on Infinite Earths.

In the prior two issues, Black Canary is still on Earth-2 as part of the JSA. During that storyline, her husband, Larry Lance, is killed. At the end of #74, she decides to start a new life on Earth-1 by going to Earth-1 with the Justice League.

#75 is Black Canary's first issue on Earth-1. it's also her first issue as a member of the Justice League. More importantly, it's the first appearance of her Canary Cry, with the explanation that traveling between worlds somehow triggered some kind of mutation. And finally, her relationship with Green Arrow begins in this issue, though it's subtle, as the two of them co-narrate the tale. 

It's a very clear breaking point between the old Golden Age version of the character and the new Silver Age version reimagined by Denny O'Neil. It's also the second appearance of the new look Green Arrow, after B&B #85, also written by O'Neil. 

It was later retconned that the Canary who came to Earth-1 is actually the daughter of the Earth-2 Canary, and she had been in stasis in limbo because her canary cry couldn't be controlled on Earth-2 or something. it's too weird to explain. This retcon was deemed necessary because all the other heroes in the JSA were pushing 65 by that point, only on Earth-1, Black Canary was still young. 

Importantly for viewing #75 as a first appearance, that retcon remained in place post-Crisis - though the details were obviously different, post-Crisis the modern Dinah Lance was the daughter of the original Black Canary, Dinah Drake Lance, who had been a member of the JSA in her youth. The idea that there were two Black Canarys ultimately came from the major changes made to the character in JLA #75.

Her powers, personality, and relationship with Green Arrow all date to this issue. I think it's absolutely the key issue for Black Canary fans after Flash Comics #92. 

 

Having said all that, I'd bet my hat the price bump actually just is because the issue has an iconic black cover that's really hard to find in grade. 

Terrific analysis and spot on. My only adds...let's not underestimate the impact of the cover. And, none of this proves it's why Overstreet raised the value.