SDCC: After 48 years, the shocking downfall. 2 2

[Robot Man]

3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Isn't Mitch the one that started this whole tirade about how SDCC is now nothing more than a circus sideshow and then he goes running around acting like a circus clown when he should be like a old time comic collector down on his hands and knees digging through your dime boxes? 

I'm an "old time" collector with a few old comics... I have no trouble getting on my hands and knees, climbing ladders, digging through dusty attics and basements, or dirty barns for old comics!

[Topnotchman]

I've been to San Diego 9 out of the last 10 years.  This year I was there during the first few days of the show and the dealer to dealer business I thought was exciting.  A decent number books and dollars were changing hands.  Some of the dealers I was doing business with were ready to put there feet on the table on Wednesday because they already sold so many books, there weekend was paid for.    There absolutely were big Gold books in the room and priced slightly above a realistic market value.  At least they were for sale, and if you wanted to pull the trigger you could pick up that grail and carry it home with you.   To me it was a great show to network with other dealers and keep myself up to date with current market conditions.  I have plans of going again next year in 2018. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Topnotchman

[Mmehdy]

5 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Isn't Mitch the one that started this whole tirade about how SDCC is now nothing more than a circus sideshow and then he goes running around acting like a circus clown when he should be like a old time comic collector down on his hands and knees digging through your dime boxes? 

CGC vs SDCC is apple/orange and cannot be lumped in the same sentence. Unless you were at the beginning of the SDCC you might not understand how or why we ended up  with today's mess, and it is a big one. CGC is a mixed bag to me, but I am glad it exists. I dont like the fact you cannot touch  or feel the comic book, but it does protect the investor....the widget buyer from buying something he would not be aware of such as restoration. If you want the unslabbed book you can buy it cheaper and feel, read and enjoy it which is ok with me.

The behavior of the speculator," the widget buyer" is another story, sometimes paying 5x the current market price on a difference of 9.2 vs 9.4.. in which you need a microscope to see any difference .now that could qualify.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Mmehdy

[blazingbob]

On 7/24/2017 at 3:42 PM, G.A.tor said:

I was only in the con all day Saturday and have thus limited my observations to that day (I too left at 5)

but I talked to a lot of folks and the feeling I got from everyone I talked to Saturday was "meh" ...not bad but not great. 

 

Maybe the dynamic there has changed (haven't set up in 3 years but did for the 10 years previous to that). Saturday was always the best day/most buyers. Maybe that's changed?

Rick,  I'm wondering what San Diego show you were at and frankly maybe you should gather a little more information before posting.   

Since you have a lot of fanboys on the boards maybe you should think a little before you post.  Does being there one day really give you the insight to put out a show review?  Since you are the "Ask Gator" author do you think that maybe your post will cause some customers to think that the show isn't worth going to?    

Saturday has always been the media/movie star day and traditionally the slowest sales day at San Diego.  My sales were very strong this year.  Yeah,  Saturday was slow but so what.  The show counting setup is 5 and a 1/2 days of solid buying/selling.  

Sal had to leave Sunday morning because he was attending the Sports card show.

You are saying that dealers were complaining and leaving based on slow sales?  Greg Reece being there for the first time?  I like Greg but when you are leaving a show I question what else you should be doing.   Buying books,  networking,  looking at what is selling.  San Diego provides a lot of information.  You can choose to use it or not.    

Bunky brothers who frankly did a lot of strong buying but didn't have one CGC book on the wall.  How exactly do they represent a strong cross section of the dealers who setup at the show?  

Except for Greg Reece and the Loss of Bunky brothers the same stuff was on Dealer's walls?  Not sure what walls you were looking at.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by blazingbob

[G.A.tor]

2 hours ago, blazingbob said:

Rick,  I'm wondering what San Diego show you were at and frankly maybe you should gather a little more information before posting.   

Since you have a lot of fanboys on the boards maybe you should think a little before you post.  Does being there one day really give you the insight to put out a show review?  Since you are the "Ask Gator" author do you think that maybe your post will cause some customers to think that the show isn't worth going to?    

Saturday has always been the media/movie star day and traditionally the slowest sales day at San Diego.  My sales were very strong this year.  Yeah,  Saturday was slow but so what.  The show counting setup is 5 and a 1/2 days of solid buying/selling.  

Sal had to leave Sunday morning because he was attending the Sports card show.

You are saying that dealers were complaining and leaving based on slow sales?  Greg Reece being there for the first time?  I like Greg but when you are leaving a show I question what else you should be doing.   Buying books,  networking,  looking at what is selling.  San Diego provides a lot of information.  You can choose to use it or not.    

Bunky brothers who frankly did a lot of strong buying but didn't have one CGC book on the wall.  How exactly do they represent a strong cross section of the dealers who setup at the show?  

Except for Greg Reece and the Loss of Bunky brothers the same stuff was on Dealer's walls?  Not sure what walls you were looking at.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can't argue with your perspective at all. I also clarified that I was just talking about Saturday and have made no show review. And further clarified that my perspective was very limited as I was only there set up and sat ...

For me, Saturday was always my best day. For all The years I set up, sat made our show

that said I had never seen multiple dealers leave a Saturday early and I posted that observation...was not a statement to the overall show  , just a Saturday observation...maybe it is common knowledge that Saturday's now stink, don't know , I stopped setting up years ago

there are always dealers like you/high grade, Ritter, dale , metro, harley etc that do great. And there are always dealers that for a myriad of reasons do poorly. 

Outside of that , no one should read anything more into my post other than I found it surprising 

i heard both wc regulars did well. And I heard from several dealers (outside of Reece and bunky) that they did less than stellar. 

Regardless, sdcc is and has been losing long time dealers for years ( joe v, redbeard, bedrock at one point, me, etc)

and everyone had their reasons why...but it's an observation worth mentioning  

 

overall the selection was very typical of a sdcc. I looked at every wall. I even commented to several that I thought your wall (high grade) was about as good and diverse as I had seen. 

But nothing else stood out as "diff" to me, except Bunky's model change. The books always change, but I didn't notice anyone's model (outside of Bunky's) being diff. 

Graham , bedrock, harley, superworld, dale, so cal, a1, metro, motor city, Dave and adams , worldwide, terry o etc. , torpedo etc all were what I've expected 

Just my

Edited July 27, 2017 by G.A.tor

[Robot Man]

Looks like it would be pretty hard to top a dealer line up any better than that at any show. Competition for buyers must be VERY stiff in that room. 

[Mmehdy]

14 hours ago, blazingbob said:

Rick,  I'm wondering what San Diego show you were at and frankly maybe you should gather a little more information before posting.   

Since you have a lot of fanboys on the boards maybe you should think a little before you post.  Does being there one day really give you the insight to put out a show review?  Since you are the "Ask Gator" author do you think that maybe your post will cause some customers to think that the show isn't worth going to?    

Saturday has always been the media/movie star day and traditionally the slowest sales day at San Diego.  My sales were very strong this year.  Yeah,  Saturday was slow but so what.  The show counting setup is 5 and a 1/2 days of solid buying/selling.  

Sal had to leave Sunday morning because he was attending the Sports card show.

You are saying that dealers were complaining and leaving based on slow sales?  Greg Reece being there for the first time?  I like Greg but when you are leaving a show I question what else you should be doing.   Buying books,  networking,  looking at what is selling.  San Diego provides a lot of information.  You can choose to use it or not.    

Bunky brothers who frankly did a lot of strong buying but didn't have one CGC book on the wall.  How exactly do they represent a strong cross section of the dealers who setup at the show?  

Except for Greg Reece and the Loss of Bunky brothers the same stuff was on Dealer's walls?  Not sure what walls you were looking at.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have gone to probably 44 out of 48 shows, maybe 45....The little dealer is getting squeezed out by the big comic book dealers..for example  it appeared CC had expanded presence. When the all the little guys go...well the competition for prices diminish.  Clearly the show has changed for the worst for SA/GA collector in terms of finding dealers whom might be unknown or not with a major web presence. Like it or not, we need to migrate to Wondercon and make a "custer's last stand" on that show, the ship has sailed a long time ago on SDCC.  I could have missed him was Terry Stroud there at the con this year?

Edited July 27, 2017 by Mmehdy

[blazingbob]

7 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

I have gone to probably 44 out of 48 shows, maybe 45....The little dealer is getting squeezed out by the big comic book dealers..for example  it appeared CC had expanded presence. When the all the little guys go...well the competition for prices diminish.  Clearly the show has changed for the worst for SA/GA collector in terms of finding dealers whom might be unknown or not with a major web presence. Like it or not, we need to migrate to Wondercon and make a "custer's last stand" on that show, the ship has sailed a long time ago on SDCC.  I could have missed him was Terry Stroud there at the con this year?

Terry Stroud was at the show.  If Wondercon is the show you feel gives you a better selection then by all means I encourage you to give it a try.  Others will say that Terry's one day show will.  However,  I can't attend Terry's one day show since my expense ratio's are higher on a one day cross country show versus a 3 day or more show.

Little dealers are being squeezed out of many of the major shows.  I heard the same pricing concerns being voiced for one of the boardie fan favorites Heroes Con.  Unfortunately what I think small dealers miss is that if you have the books the major shows will probably be the "best bang for the buck" since dealers are generally the biggest spenders.   

[october]

33 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Unfortunately what I think small dealers miss is that if you have the books the major shows will probably be the "best bang for the buck" since dealers are generally the biggest spenders.   

This is very true. When I was setting up, I always picked a large show in Chicago and split booth costs with a few other weekend warriors. I only did this once a year and only if I had good stuff, and I advertised here on the boards. More than half of my sales went to dealers during setup. Once I had networked enough, I sold directly to those same dealers and didn't bother doing the shows anymore. 

Beats lugging longboxes around to small cons and coming home with under a grand each time. Dealers have the most money and spend the most money and buy the widest variety of things. For someone who has a "regular" career (me) dealers are the obvious preference. 

[Knightsofold]

On 7/24/2017 at 2:55 PM, sfcityduck said:

Comic cons used to be super cool and ultra important because that was the only place you could find comic books not available at your local comic store (LCS).  Buying by mail back then was a bit dicey because you had no idea what you were buying.  But, now, with the advent of the internet and grading services, you have complete comfort and convenience in buying from afar.  So the need for Comic Cons has greatly greatly greatly diminished.  Forums like this have even removed the networking benefits of cons.

Meanwhile, SDCC has turned into the coolest place in the world to be a pop culture early adapter.  Nothing more than watching an Arrowverse premiere 3 months early or being in the room as one of the first around watching the Ready Player One trailer.  And there's lots of limited edition "exclusives" to shop for, cool booths to experience, and great panels to attend.   And those things can really only be done at SDCC, whereas you can buy comics from anywhere.

A selfie at a super tough to attend comic movie panel is probably the same rush for some people as scoring that awesome Vintage comic you've been looking for.

[blazingbob]

3 minutes ago, october said:

This is very true. When I was setting up, I always picked a large show in Chicago and split booth costs with a few other weekend warriors. I only did this once a year and only if I had good stuff, and I advertised here on the boards. More than half of my sales went to dealers during setup. Once I had networked enough, I sold directly to those same dealers and didn't bother doing the shows anymore. 

Beats lugging longboxes around to small cons and coming home with under a grand each time. Dealers have the most money and spend the most money and buy the widest variety of things. For someone who has a "regular" career (me) dealers are the obvious preference. 

Thank you for posting that.  I have no idea why the major show promoters don't see this,  don't use this to bring the dealers to the show etc.  Everybody is focused on the cost when the real "big picture" is who is your (insert dealer name) my true customer base.  If you want to sell a lot of books price them fairly,  try to leave some money on the table for both parties and you will have a great show.  If you think your Hulk #181 is the cats meow and requires you to get full gpa then think again.  If you want to just deal in cash and turn down dealers checks then maybe you should wonder why you carry around the same inventory show after show (Disclosure - the "you" in this post is not directed at October)  

[Mmehdy]

10 minutes ago, october said:

This is very true. When I was setting up, I always picked a large show in Chicago and split booth costs with a few other weekend warriors. I only did this once a year and only if I had good stuff, and I advertised here on the boards. More than half of my sales went to dealers during setup. Once I had networked enough, I sold directly to those same dealers and didn't bother doing the shows anymore. 

Beats lugging longboxes around to small cons and coming home with under a grand each time. Dealers have the most money and spend the most money and buy the widest variety of things. For someone who has a "regular" career (me) dealers are the obvious preference. 

I understand it beats lugging boxes, but what about the "excitement  factor" have  WE  just become a bunch of internet zombies...who click and buy, click away...what about the joy of looking and finding a comic book you have wanted in a long box..a surprise...I think its more the "passion" that has been taken away...the joy....the kids today don't know what I am talking about..they grew up with it......Dylan said it best" the time they are a changing". When you approach and go thru a "old time" dealer...then its Las Vegas time...anything goes...you can find just about anything, probably because the dealer himself does not know either...LOL but really.....I don't like the direction comic cons are going in terms of the true comic book collector who treats comic book collecting as a passion, not as a business or a widget...WE ARE GETTING SOLD OUT TO A BUNCH OF 'HELLO KITTY' TOY COLLECTORS...ZOMBIE GAME PLAYERS..GREEDY MOVIE STUDIOS...we are getting stamped on with a boot in the face...

such is the march of time.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Mmehdy

[Robot Man]

48 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Terry Stroud was at the show.  If Wondercon is the show you feel gives you a better selection then by all means I encourage you to give it a try.  Others will say that Terry's one day show will.  However,  I can't attend Terry's one day show since my expense ratio's are higher on a one day cross country show versus a 3 day or more show.

Little dealers are being squeezed out of many of the major shows.  I heard the same pricing concerns being voiced for one of the boardie fan favorites Heroes Con.  Unfortunately what I think small dealers miss is that if you have the books the major shows will probably be the "best bang for the buck" since dealers are generally the biggest spenders.   

Terry Stroud's stuff was at the show but probably covered with a blanket most of the time...

Redbeard hasn't quit the business or doing shows. He is just way more focused on other things these days. I believe he told me for the most part, he has stopped buying collections and when they come his way, he brokers them for a fee. He is definately winding down. So you can't count him in the mix of SDCC dealers that have left because of the show.

[october]

2 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

I understand it beats lugging boxes, but what about the "excitement  factor" have  WE  just become a bunch of internet zombies...who click and buy, click away...what about the joy of looking and finding a comic book you have wanted in a long box..a surprise...I think its more the "passion" that has been taken away...the joy....the kids today don't know what I am talking about..they grew up with it......Dylan said it best" the time they are a changing". When you approach and go thru a "old time" dealer...then its Las Vegas time...anything goes...you can find just about anything, probably because the dealer himself does not know either...LOL but really.....I don't like the direct comic cons are going in terms of the true comic book collector who treats comic book collecting as a passion, not as a business or a widget

That's true too. I can say, without a doubt, I have more fun at the smaller and medium sized shows. My post above was directed only at the business aspect of selling. I have noticed the gradual demise of the old school dealer, but there are some left and I try to patronize them as much as possible. 

If I want to move books, I set up at a big show and sell to big dealers at prices off a certain percentage of market value. If I want to have a nice, relaxing time I go to medium and smaller sized shows. Both have their place and I have attended both types in the past few years. 

[sacentaur]

Good to hear your sales were strong, Bob. It reflects what I heard from others.

I bought dozens of cool books, too bad the OP couldn't MANNUP for a single comic but then again...

 

 

[october]

8 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Thank you for posting that.  I have no idea why the major show promoters don't see this,  don't use this to bring the dealers to the show etc.  Everybody is focused on the cost when the real "big picture" is who is your (insert dealer name) my true customer base.  If you want to sell a lot of books price them fairly,  try to leave some money on the table for both parties and you will have a great show.  If you think your Hulk #181 is the cats meow and requires you to get full gpa then think again.  If you want to just deal in cash and turn down dealers checks then maybe you should wonder why you carry around the same inventory show after show (Disclosure - the "you" in this post is not directed at October)  

It's the only way it makes sense. As a part time dealer I can't justify the cost of shows otherwise. I am not setting up to drive traffic to a website that doesn't exist, or to expand my collector customer base. I am setting up to move as many comics as I can in as short a time as I can, and they ONLY way to do that is to A) price below market and B) sell to dealers. That was my gameplan, and I did close to six figures in gross each time and sold through 50%+ of what I brought. 

It makes ZERO sense for a guy like me to price at market, lug stuff around, and have my profits gradually evaporate from table fees, gas and hotel rooms....not to mention the time spent, time that I don't have. 

[Robot Man]

55 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Terry Stroud was at the show.  If Wondercon is the show you feel gives you a better selection then by all means I encourage you to give it a try.  Others will say that Terry's one day show will.  However,  I can't attend Terry's one day show since my expense ratio's are higher on a one day cross country show versus a 3 day or more show.

Little dealers are being squeezed out of many of the major shows.  I heard the same pricing concerns being voiced for one of the boardie fan favorites Heroes Con.  Unfortunately what I think small dealers miss is that if you have the books the major shows will probably be the "best bang for the buck" since dealers are generally the biggest spenders.   

Consider Terry's show as a tax write off Bob. Get a small table, bring a small load of good stuff, take a weeks vacation from the NY snow. The buzz and excitement in that room is literally humming from start to finish. People come to it just aching to buy with no distractions.

[Dale Roberts]

On 7/23/2017 at 1:07 PM, G.A.tor said:

There's really no better selection this year than recent years. Addition of Reece comics was cool, but bunky bro didn't bring their normal set up of vintage , so that kind of offsets imo

rest is pretty much the same

that said, I'm not hearing "great" sales from anyone. In fact yesterday, Saturday , might have been the worst sat of sales since I can remember. Multiple dealers left and closed their booths early

On the flip side, I had my 2nd best San Diego ever, and I know SoCal Comics, A1 Comics, Terry O'Neill, and Harley all had very good shows as well.  I found no shortage of people wanting to buy comics at the show, except on Saturday and a good chunk of the day on Friday. As always, when there are big movie panels the buying pool shrinks for those days. 

[MrBedrock]

13 hours ago, Robot Man said:

Looks like it would be pretty hard to top a dealer line up any better than that at any show. Competition for buyers must be VERY stiff in that room. 

I saw some stuff there that made me VERY stiff.

[MrBedrock]

I have always justified the cost of San Diego in a very simple way...

The booth costs less than one month's rent in one of my stores. The extra expenses (housing, food, staff) are similar or less than one month's fixed costs (electricity, phones, payroll) in one of my stores. The sales totals are usually the same or more that one month's sales in one of my stores. As long as that holds true I will continue setting up.