Heritage Summer Auction 1 1

[Brian Peck]

WOW!!!!

$526K for Zapped #1 unpublished cover

2nd highest Crumb piece auctioned by HA, Fritz the Cat cover went for $717K.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Brian Peck

[stinkininkin]

17 minutes ago, suspense39 said:

I don't really know the market, they did feature him on the cover of the catalog so I think I expected a bit more 

The Weapon X piece they used on the cover was probably the least desirable of the 3 Weapon X pieces since it was not from the series but a "revisiting" of a vintage piece by BWS.  The other 2 Weapon X pieces were strong, and the Machine Man piece was BONKERS!  So yeah, extremely strong numbers!

Scott

[delekkerste]

10 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

The Weapon X piece they used on the cover was probably the least desirable of the 3 Weapon X pieces since it was not from the series but a "revisiting" of a vintage piece by BWS.  The other 2 Weapon X pieces were strong, and the Machine Man piece was BONKERS!  So yeah, extremely strong numbers!

Scott

I was surprised by that unpublished Tomb of Dracula #8 cover by BWS, which went for $17.9K (not inked; pencils only).  It is prime BWS, though; TOD #8 was published 2 months after Conan #24.  But, still, was not expecting it to get that much love.  

Back to Hoberg - that What If? #5 cover is early in the run and memorable.  It's something that would have been half the price 4 or 5 years ago, but, such is the world we live in these days.  Used to be that plenty of B-level Marvel hero covers were available in the $3Ks (sometimes even less); I even remarked several times to friends at the time that I should probably be hoovering them up while they are still available (at the time, Boardie Doc Joe seemed to have locked down the market for these types of covers).  Sadly, I only managed to get a few, and now because everything else is so expensive, prices on these second and third-tier covers have gone to $5-7K+ as they now seem cheap by comparison. 

[stinkininkin]

Just now, delekkerste said:

I was surprised by that unpublished Tomb of Dracula #8 cover by BWS, which went for $17.9K (not inked; pencils only).  It is prime BWS, though; TOD #8 was published 2 months after Conan #24.  But, still, was not expecting it to get that much love.  

Back to Hoberg - that What If? #5 cover is early in the run and memorable.  It's something that would have been half the price 4 or 5 years ago, but, such is the world we live in these days.  Used to be that plenty of B-level Marvel hero covers were available in the $3Ks (sometimes even less); I even remarked several times to friends at the time that I should probably be hoovering them up while they are still available (at the time, Boardie Doc Joe seemed to have locked down the market for these types of covers).  Sadly, I only managed to get a few, and now because everything else is so expensive, prices on these second and third-tier covers have gone to $5-7K+ as they now seem cheap by comparison. 

Right!  Forgot about the TOD cover.  That was a big number!

[delekkerste]

27 minutes ago, mtlevy1 said:

The BWS cover lot wasn't so strong but the description of its use was a bit vague so not shocked - most of the other BWS pages were strong IMO

I think everyone was surprised that it was the cover lot instead of the unused Zap cover or the Fred Ray Superman or, heck, even the other BWS Weapon X piece. 

[stinkininkin]

Do people in other CGC forums talk about ongoing Heritage auctions and talk about the slabbed comic book results in real time the way we do the original art stuff?  It's a whole different world and I don't even know where to look!  

Scott

[chromium]

16 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Do people in other CGC forums talk about ongoing Heritage auctions and talk about the slabbed comic book results in real time the way we do the original art stuff?  It's a whole different world and I don't even know where to look!  

Scott

Yeah, but not really in real time. I seem to remember the odd "show us your Heritage winnings" or "comiclink winnings" from time to time, but the discussion is not so deep or informative and it's mostly about who won what. 

[DJRome]

19 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Back to Hoberg - that What If? #5 cover is early in the run and memorable.  It's something that would have been half the price 4 or 5 years ago, but, such is the world we live in these days.  Used to be that plenty of B-level Marvel hero covers were available in the $3Ks (sometimes even less); I even remarked several times to friends at the time that I should probably be hoovering them up while they are still available (at the time, Boardie Doc Joe seemed to have locked down the market for these types of covers).  Sadly, I only managed to get a few, and now because everything else is so expensive, prices on these second and third-tier covers have gone to $5-7K+ as they now seem cheap by comparison. 

I bought the What If #5 and I'd debate that it would have sold for decent money four years ago. Those early WI issues always carried some premium. I know Doc Joe scooped up the #2 a few years back, but he paid a lot more than 3k for it. The #1 is still available from Bechara, but I don't see that going cheaply (65k the last time I checked), now or back in the day. And it's not even Hoberg; it's Kida!

If you could have gotten one of those first 10 covers (or so) a few years back, it would have been tough to land it for under 5k. I didn't enjoy bidding that high, but I have no regrets. A friend recently said that "context is king" and I think the What If #5 is a great example of that. Would that be considered the "Hoberg Defense"?

 

[comix4fun]

39 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Right!  Forgot about the TOD cover.  That was a big number!

And it wasn't just the number...it was the fierce bidding to get there. It opened in live bidding at $1,400.....and the bidders bludgeoned each other to get to $18k

[delekkerste]

I skipped the auction (both bidding and watching) in favor of watching the Premier League season opener and other stuff this afternoon/evening, so I'm just catching up now.

- Is that the cheapest Alex Raymond Flash Gordon Sunday out there ($11,352.50)?  I know it's atypical subject matter/setting, and is past the more desirable mid-to-late '30s strips, but, dang...that is cheap

- I'm a Felix the Cat fan; glad to see that  two of the three Sunday strips did well ($7,767.50 and $9,560).

- That's a great Conan appearance in that Avengers #76 page ($11,950).  Oh, wait, it's Arkon! 

- Complete stories often don't do well at auction, but, I thought the Thor #197 ($40,630) did pretty respectably

- Thor #221 cover went for $31,070?  I'm surprised.  Looked a bit wonky to me - is it on vellum or is one or more of the characters a (drawn) paste-up?  Don't recall seeing anything noting such in the description, but, it looked a bit strange to my eyes

- Surprised that the Conan #124 cover fetched $31,070 as well given how exposed it's been in recent years.  I think there's now some belief that it's the best of the post-#100 Conan covers...I'd have to go back and check to see if I agree with that, but, in any case, that seems like a big price to pay even if true

- Byrne X-Men #135 page ($17,925).  After fees, do people think the seller did better here than he would have on eBay after he pulled it?  I'm thinking probably about the same or maybe even a bit worse - think this is the kind of page that would do just fine on eBay.

- Cardy Brave & Bold #104 cover ($11,950).  If it was a Marvel cover from that era by an artist as talented as Cardy featuring two prominent heroes of the period, even on a secondary title, you'd think $15K would be the floor.  DC just doesn't get the same respect...

- Cockrum/McLeod X-Men #94 cover ($35,850).  Definitely a memorable page, though not as good as the other #94 page that they had a few years ago that sold for a tad less. 

- Johnny Craig Vault of Horror #33 cover ($19,717.50).  Pre-auction chatter was that the small figures would keep the price down, which I think was correct.  A number of these second-tier Craig EC horror covers have gone for very reasonable prices - one of the few spots of value out there in the marketplace.

- Day/Totleben Swamp Thing #20 page ($2,868).  Just throwing my  in.  To me, the issue #20 factor does not overcome that it is Day/Totleben.  I tend to avoid the pages that aren't Moore/Bissette/Totleben collaborations or Moore/Totleben.  It is a very nice page, though.

- Ditko Strange Tales #141 page ($65,725).  As I said pre-auction, this is a good-but-not-great page that was always going to fetch a big price due to scarcity.  Personally, I'm not a fan, from a buyer's perspective, of when much of the value is due to rarity (e.g., Calvin & Hobbes strips)

- Hoberg What If? #5 cover ($7,468.75).  Yeah, it's Hobert, yeah, it's double 5 years ago prices...but, if you're a vintage art collector, it's not like you're going to find a lot better for the money these days...sadly!

- Infantino/Day Star Wars Weekly #125 cover ($3,226.50).  THANK GOD people had enough sense to realize how unattractive this is drawn and didn't bid it up to a stupid price.  I've already lost enough faith in humanity as it is...I feel compelled to look both ways even when crossing a one-way street nowadays. 

- Kirby X-Men #2 pages (various).  I guess in this market, these prices look, well, reasonable.  Pretty historic stuff - you could have gotten the 3 best pages of the lot for less than the price of the NYX #3 cover.  BARGAIN!!!!!!!

- Lloyd V for Vendetta page ($20,315).  Surprising to me; these things have tended to sell cheaply (relative to my expectations anyway) the few times they've come up.  Glad to see a good page get a strong price.  And an existential question...is it still not the real V if the page precedes the reveal on the next?  If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?

- Miller DD #181 page ($18,522.50).  I think I told friends I expect $15-20K.  Or maybe it was $15-18K.  Pretty close in either case. 

- Miller DD #166 page ($8,365).  Such a cool page...would think maybe $15K-ish without the color.

- Pope Batman: Year 100 #3 front & back cover ($15,535).  Is that cheap?  

- BWS Tomb of Dracula #8 cover unpubbed pencils ($17,925).  Congrats to whoever bought it - this is someone who loves art for art's sake.  Absolute prime BWS (no, wasn't me).

- Crumb unpubbed Zap #1 cover ($525,800).  Crumb rules the OA world.

Terrible selection in this auction for my personal collecting wheelhouse, so I was happy to take this cycle off.  

Overall, very strong results I'd say.  You know, we talk about the inevitable secular decline for the hobby (and I do believe that it is inevitable), but, that could conceivably still be a decade or two away.  Most people are probably actually more interested in when the next cyclical downturn will occur (and, yes, this stuff is cyclical, especially at current price levels).  I think I've said it before:  there's no reason to believe that the next cyclical downturn for the hobby will occur until after we get some real weakness in the economy, financial markets and/or other art/collectibles categories.  Obviously none of those conditions have yet been met, and so the bull market roars on (for now).

[delekkerste]

5 minutes ago, DJRome said:

I bought the What If #5 and I'd debate that it would have sold for decent money four years ago. Those early WI issues always carried some premium. I know Doc Joe scooped up the #2 a few years back, but he paid a lot more than 3k for it. The #1 is still available from Bechara, but I don't see that going cheaply (65k the last time I checked), now or back in the day. And it's not even Hoberg; it's Kida!

 

Maybe $5K-handle in 2013...would think probably $3K-handle in 2011-12, though before 2013's big run-up.  

What If #1 is now attributed to Kida?  Is it being offered with that attribution?

[comix4fun]

3 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

 

 

- Cockrum/McLeod X-Men #94 cover ($35,850).  Definitely a memorable page, though not as good as the other #94 page that they had a few years ago that sold for a tad less. 

 

I agree with most of your assessment of the auction, except for this. X-men is a "talky" book. The whole books is "I'm staying" or "I'm going". The other page had a teeny panel with Wolverine in it and some Nightcrawler, and Sunfire leaving. 

This page was missing the little wolverine face but it had Bansheee leaving....no, wait, he's STAYING!!....but it's the bottom that's money. The original X-men team, the ones there from the beginning announce they are leaving. 

It totality that last panel puts this page above the other page, if even slightly. 

[comix4fun]

13 minutes ago, DJRome said:

I bought the What If #5 and I'd debate that it would have sold for decent money four years ago. Those early WI issues always carried some premium. I know Doc Joe scooped up the #2 a few years back, but he paid a lot more than 3k for it. The #1 is still available from Bechara, but I don't see that going cheaply (65k the last time I checked), now or back in the day. And it's not even Hoberg; it's Kida!

If you could have gotten one of those first 10 covers (or so) a few years back, it would have been tough to land it for under 5k. I didn't enjoy bidding that high, but I have no regrets. A friend recently said that "context is king" and I think the What If #5 is a great example of that. Would that be considered the "Hoberg Defense"?

 

That's a pretty good "Hoberg Defense" too.  Congrats. Enjoyment is what it's all about. 

[comix4fun]

1 hour ago, stinkininkin said:

The Weapon X piece they used on the cover was probably the least desirable of the 3 Weapon X pieces since it was not from the series but a "revisiting" of a vintage piece by BWS.  The other 2 Weapon X pieces were strong, and the Machine Man piece was BONKERS!  So yeah, extremely strong numbers!

Scott

True, on all accounts. 

The "revisiting", to a Weapon X fan, is missing the published aspect that's so key at the numbers we're talking about. Of the three weapon-x pieces the 1/2 splash was, to my eye, the strongest art of the group. 

The prices on the 1/2 splash and the published cover seemed strong at first glance, but after thinking it over and seeing what the pencil unpubbed TOD cover $17.9k, the Solar cover $11.3K, the Machine Man page $10.1k, and even the 8x11 Galactus card art $3.5k....a published Weapon X cover and stellar half splash at those numbers seem to fit reasonably into today's overall BWS performance. 

[Doc Joe]

I love me some what if...was bidding on the 5, but have not bid with unbridled enthusiasm this auction, so coming away with nothing .. not a bad thing after SDCC!

loved the dredd wrap around but too much for me

regret not landing the Bisley cover but again 10.5 which means we would have been bidding above that 

the v for vendetta page was cool in person at sdcc 

 

[Doc Joe]

And since no one is posting pics...I'll spam the thread with what ifs! 

[stinkininkin]

27 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I skipped the auction (both bidding and watching) in favor of watching the Premier League season opener and other stuff this afternoon/evening, so I'm just catching up now.

- Is that the cheapest Alex Raymond Flash Gordon Sunday out there ($11,352.50)?  I know it's atypical subject matter/setting, and is past the more desirable mid-to-late '30s strips, but, dang...that is cheap

- I'm a Felix the Cat fan; glad to see that  two of the three Sunday strips did well ($7,767.50 and $9,560).

- That's a great Conan appearance in that Avengers #76 page ($11,950).  Oh, wait, it's Arkon! 

- Complete stories often don't do well at auction, but, I thought the Thor #197 ($40,630) did pretty respectably

- Thor #221 cover went for $31,070?  I'm surprised.  Looked a bit wonky to me - is it on vellum or is one or more of the characters a (drawn) paste-up?  Don't recall seeing anything noting such in the description, but, it looked a bit strange to my eyes

- Surprised that the Conan #124 cover fetched $31,070 as well given how exposed it's been in recent years.  I think there's now some belief that it's the best of the post-#100 Conan covers...I'd have to go back and check to see if I agree with that, but, in any case, that seems like a big price to pay even if true

- Byrne X-Men #135 page ($17,925).  After fees, do people think the seller did better here than he would have on eBay after he pulled it?  I'm thinking probably about the same or maybe even a bit worse - think this is the kind of page that would do just fine on eBay.

- Cardy Brave & Bold #104 cover ($11,950).  If it was a Marvel cover from that era by an artist as talented as Cardy featuring two prominent heroes of the period, even on a secondary title, you'd think $15K would be the floor.  DC just doesn't get the same respect...

- Cockrum/McLeod X-Men #94 cover ($35,850).  Definitely a memorable page, though not as good as the other #94 page that they had a few years ago that sold for a tad less. 

- Johnny Craig Vault of Horror #33 cover ($19,717.50).  Pre-auction chatter was that the small figures would keep the price down, which I think was correct.  A number of these second-tier Craig EC horror covers have gone for very reasonable prices - one of the few spots of value out there in the marketplace.

- Day/Totleben Swamp Thing #20 page ($2,868).  Just throwing my  in.  To me, the issue #20 factor does not overcome that it is Day/Totleben.  I tend to avoid the pages that aren't Moore/Bissette/Totleben collaborations or Moore/Totleben.  It is a very nice page, though.

- Ditko Strange Tales #141 page ($65,725).  As I said pre-auction, this is a good-but-not-great page that was always going to fetch a big price due to scarcity.  Personally, I'm not a fan, from a buyer's perspective, of when much of the value is due to rarity (e.g., Calvin & Hobbes strips)

- Hoberg What If? #5 cover ($7,468.75).  Yeah, it's Hobert, yeah, it's double 5 years ago prices...but, if you're a vintage art collector, it's not like you're going to find a lot better for the money these days...sadly!

- Infantino/Day Star Wars Weekly #125 cover ($3,226.50).  THANK GOD people had enough sense to realize how unattractive this is drawn and didn't bid it up to a stupid price.  I've already lost enough faith in humanity as it is...I feel compelled to look both ways even when crossing a one-way street nowadays. 

- Kirby X-Men #2 pages (various).  I guess in this market, these prices look, well, reasonable.  Pretty historic stuff - you could have gotten the 3 best pages of the lot for less than the price of the NYX #3 cover.  BARGAIN!!!!!!!

- Lloyd V for Vendetta page ($20,315).  Surprising to me; these things have tended to sell cheaply (relative to my expectations anyway) the few times they've come up.  Glad to see a good page get a strong price.  And an existential question...is it still not the real V if the page precedes the reveal on the next?  If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?

- Miller DD #181 page ($18,522.50).  I think I told friends I expect $15-20K.  Or maybe it was $15-18K.  Pretty close in either case. 

- Miller DD #166 page ($8,365).  Such a cool page...would think maybe $15K-ish without the color.

- Pope Batman: Year 100 #3 front & back cover ($15,535).  Is that cheap?  

- BWS Tomb of Dracula #8 cover unpubbed pencils ($17,925).  Congrats to whoever bought it - this is someone who loves art for art's sake.  Absolute prime BWS (no, wasn't me).

- Crumb unpubbed Zap #1 cover ($525,800).  Crumb rules the OA world.

Terrible selection in this auction for my personal collecting wheelhouse, so I was happy to take this cycle off.  

Overall, very strong results I'd say.  You know, we talk about the inevitable secular decline for the hobby (and I do believe that it is inevitable), but, that could conceivably still be a decade or two away.  Most people are probably actually more interested in when the next cyclical downturn will occur (and, yes, this stuff is cyclical, especially at current price levels).  I think I've said it before:  there's no reason to believe that the next cyclical downturn for the hobby will occur until after we get some real weakness in the economy, financial markets and/or other art/collectibles categories.  Obviously none of those conditions have yet been met, and so the bull market roars on (for now).

Don't know if this seems like a silly question, but would the price of the gorgeous DD 181 page have been different if Matt was simply wearing his mask in all those shots?  On second thought, not a silly question.  Yeah, it made a difference and punished the final price.  Same with the DD 166 page (how weird is it to have two such similar training pages with multiple figure motion sequences in the same auction?).  And speaking of Miller, that Ronin page at just north of 17k was a really big number.  Gorgeous page, but I believe that page has bounced around a bit.  Nice to see Ronin getting some love.  Spectacular material and somewhat under appreciated and (until today) under valued.

Scott

[Dick O.]

Great auction recap @delekkerste 

Would you mind handling the Original Art Aficionado Market Reports for me

 

[comix4fun]

9 minutes ago, O. said:

Great auction recap @delekkerste 

Would you mind handling the Original Art Aficionado Market Reports for me

 

He's got a private patreon channel. People pay big bucks for his auction recaps, and he uses all kinds of special effects and power point. It's fancy. 

 

[tth2]

3 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

Do people in other CGC forums talk about ongoing Heritage auctions and talk about the slabbed comic book results in real time the way we do the original art stuff?  It's a whole different world and I don't even know where to look!

Scott

yeah, it usually happens in the golden age forum, both leading up to the auction and then real time.  not surprisingly, the focus is on golden age books, notable big silver age results will be discussed too.

of course, with the way that comics have been deemphasized by heritage in the last few years, there’s been less and less to discuss.  but the ga thread on the jon berk collection was extremely active, from the moment the auction was announced until weeks afterwards, with major real time discussion going on during the 6 or 7 days of the auction.