Grading Skill Of A Comic Dealer 3 3

[JohnFranklin]

 I've been meaning to pose this question for some time, the question follows after the description of what happened....A number of years ago I bought a raw comic from a well known dealer and I want to point out I have bought from this dealer since, so there is no beef here.  At the time, I had very little experience with grading so I asked the dealer about the comic's grade, they indicated a 9.4 and potentially a 9.6 on a good day.  I got the book graded and it came back an 8.0.  In general I wondered at that time if the dealer should have been closer on the grade, so my question is, should a dealer generally have reasonable grading skills?  Now perhaps this answers my own question, maybe the dealer's weak assessment was simply an anomaly.  Frankly to this day I am not sure what the real basis for the grade was and the grader's notes weren't conclusive.  The kicker is, I cracked the book out and re-submitted it and it came back a 7.5.........

[shadroch]

Sounds like the book has a hidden defect.

Many dealers seem to only grade covers.

 

[fastballspecial]

Its still your responsibility to review the book.

Its the reason no matter what grade a dealer gives a book I always check the back cover. They deal in 1000s of books and can make an error
at any time so to save me some headache I look myself or I ask the dealer to show me the back cover. One book I wouldn't hold against a dealer
unless you paid a pretty penny for it.

 

 

[kav]

Well I've found they undergrade when buying, overgrade when selling.  So it's not some accident of lack of grading skill.  Sell em a book they'll say wow this is rough-maybe a 5.0-next day you come in, it's on the wall-a 7.5.

[oakman29]

I have absolutely no opinion on this.

[lizards2]

Grading is an art, not a science.

I've been fed all kinds of garbage from BSDs here.  From books with undisclosed tape, color touch, stains, pages missing.  Many seem to grade books in the bag, and don't mess with the back cover.  You need to choose who  you deal with carefully, and who you do your repeat business with.  If you're buying an expensive book, insist on a back cover scan, or description of defects on the back cover.

That being said, everyone makes a mistake now and then, and the response to those mistakes is good indicator of who you are dealing with.

[ChiSoxFan]

1 hour ago, kav said:

Well I've found they undergrade when buying, overgrade when selling.  So it's not some accident of lack of grading skill.  Sell em a book they'll say wow this is rough-maybe a 5.0-next day you come in, it's on the wall-a 7.5.

That's either an extremely broad generalization -- and by that nature, an inaccurate one -- or you've clearly had horrendous luck in the dealers you've done business with. While there are those that do fit that bill, there are plenty of others who are consistent in how they're grading their inventory.  

3 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

You need to choose who  you deal with carefully, and who you do your repeat business with.  If you're buying an expensive book, insist on a back cover scan, or description of defects on the back cover.

That being said, everyone makes a mistake now and then, and the response to those mistakes is good indicator of who you are dealing with.

This. 

[kav]

4 minutes ago, ChiSoxFan said:

That's either an extremely broad generalization -- and by that nature, an inaccurate one -- or you've clearly had horrendous luck in the dealers you've done business with. While there are those that do fit that bill, there are plenty of others who are consistent in how they're grading their inventory.  

Yep I've dealt with some cheapies in my neck of the woods.  3 separate stores all have that policy.

[Bomber-Bob]

Surely after two submissions, the notes must say something that gives a clue as to the grade ? Show us the notes. We also cannot assume that the book was delivered to CGC in the same condition as when the dealer had it. The OP hints at his own inexperience. Perhaps the book was damaged during handling or shipping to CGC. Perhaps a centerfold came loose, or sustained an impact ding. Was it pressed ? I'm just saying this may not be the dealer's fault.

[porcupine48]

1 hour ago, oakman29 said:

I have absolutely no opinion on this.

I do,but it's secret. 

[OldSchoolness]

2 hours ago, shadroch said:

 

Many dealers seem to only grade covers.

 

*cough* Showcase New England *cough*

[JohnFranklin]

42 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Surely after two submissions, the notes must say something that gives a clue as to the grade ? Show us the notes. We also cannot assume that the book was delivered to CGC in the same condition as when the dealer had it. The OP hints at his own inexperience. Perhaps the book was damaged during handling or shipping to CGC. Perhaps a centerfold came loose, or sustained an impact ding. Was it pressed ? I'm just saying this may not be the dealer's fault.

For what its worth, the first grade (8.0)....purchased the book at a con and used CGC on-site grading.....consequently, there is a better than 50% chance the book did not sustain damage on it's way to CGC for grading.....the second grade, yeah, maybe......i.e., sustained damage in shipping, however I am pretty anal about packaging.

[Readcomix]

The truth can lie in the middle too...,maybe the dealer overgraded a bit and CGC undergraded a bit. Anyone can miss something/make a mistake. 

[lizards2]

5 minutes ago, JohnFranklin said:

For what its worth, the first grade (8.0)....purchased the book at a con and used CGC on-site grading.....consequently, there is a better than 50% chance the book did not sustain damage on it's way to CGC for grading.....the second grade, yeah, maybe......i.e., sustained damage in shipping, however I am pretty anal about packaging.

Or damaged by CGC at one or both of the gradings.  At least they're not putting the micro-chamber next to the covers on DCs anymore, and blowing the staples out.

[Bomber-Bob]

22 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

  At least they're not putting the micro-chamber next to the covers on DCs anymore, and blowing the staples out.

Never heard of this problem. Yet another thing us anal collectors have to worry about, the placement of the micro-chamber paper ?!?

[oakman29]

Im with Lizard, you must find the people you trust,and stay with them. I have my steady sellers that I only deal with.

[silverseeker]

8 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

Its still your responsibility to review the book.

Its the reason no matter what grade a dealer gives a book I always check the back cover. They deal in 1000s of books and can make an error
at any time so to save me some headache I look myself or I ask the dealer to show me the back cover. One book I wouldn't hold against a dealer
unless you paid a pretty penny for it.

This...

5 hours ago, oakman29 said:

Im with Lizard, you must find the people you trust,and stay with them. I have my steady sellers that I only deal with.

...and this.

It also doesn't hurt to ask a dealer if he can remove a book from its bag/mylar or allow you to remove it yourself so you can inspect it for back cover or interior flaws.

[thehumantorch]

7 hours ago, JohnFranklin said:

For what its worth, the first grade (8.0)....purchased the book at a con and used CGC on-site grading.....consequently, there is a better than 50% chance the book did not sustain damage on it's way to CGC for grading.....the second grade, yeah, maybe......i.e., sustained damage in shipping, however I am pretty anal about packaging.

Some dealers can't grade.  Some dealers over grade on purpose, their reward is a higher sticker price.  And even skilled, honest dealers make mistakes.

Your best defense is to learn everything you can about grading.  Study graded books and their assigned grade, submit books for grading, study books selling  at sites like Heritage that provide high quality scans.  And when you buy a book take it out of the bag, look it over carefully under good light, count pages, look for restoration.  Don't depend on a dealer who has skin in the game to assess a book for you.

It's a minefield out there with a lot of over graded, restored, incomplete, overpriced books.

[zosocane]

4 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

Your best defense is to learn everything you can about grading.  Study graded books and their assigned grade, submit books for grading, study books selling  at sites like Heritage that provide high quality scans.  And when you buy a book take it out of the bag, look it over carefully under good light, count pages, look for restoration.  Don't depend on a dealer who has skin in the game to assess a book for you.

It's a minefield out there with a lot of over graded, restored, incomplete, overpriced books.

Really well said.  Ultimately, you are the last line of defense.  Trust your instincts.   Don't believe the assigned grade on a book because a dealer, even a large and reputable one, says it's so.  Examining books under a bright light is critical.  That's a challenge at conventions where it is hard to see tiny flaws because the light source is affixed to the ceiling 20 feet above you in a giant warehouse.

[FineCollector]

The difference between an 8.0 and a 9.4/9.6 is drastic... did he say it had pressable defects, by any chance?  Were there any visible defects when you opened it, or did you leave it sealed?

You expect a dealer to have seen enough books to grade appropriately, but there are local guys who've been doing this since the 80's and 90's whose grades and prices are so far off, they must be doing it on purpose.  Of all the dealers I've met who consistently overgrade, I can only think of two who are always a half grade over, so they know what they're doing, and you still know what you're getting.  The rest is amateur hour.  Any time you're dealing with a new dealer, open the book, decide your own grade, decide your own price, and start from there.