thirdgreenham Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said: Since we shifted the topic from Dealer grading to Dealer Pricing, I really dislike trying to purchase consignment items from dealers. It seems consignments are generally priced with yet more padding and less room for negotiations. Yes and that makes perfect sense. 1950's war comics and greggy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jharvey Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) On 8/15/2017 at 1:55 PM, comicwiz said: There's risk in everything you buy, I have yet to hear anyone complaining of popped staples when their boasting about their upgrades in Facebook collector groups. I recently bought an Incredible Hulk #180 in around VF condition which should have easily pressed up to NM-. I sent it to CCS for pressing and CGC for grading. It came back 6.5 grade with the top staple completely popped off from the cover. Best looking 6.5 grade comic I've ever seen. That's a loss to me of roughly $438 between the 9.2 grade it could/should have been versus the 6.5 actual grade after the damage. You HAVE to buy them at a discount to cover problems like this. They can't all be winners. Edited August 18, 2017 by jharvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F For Fake Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 33 minutes ago, jharvey said: I recently bought an Incredible Hulk #180 in around VF condition which should have easily pressed up to NM-. I sent it to CCS for pressing and CGC for grading. It came back 6.5 grade with the top staple completely popped off from the cover. Best looking 6.5 grade comic I've ever seen. That's a loss to me of roughly $438 between the 9.2 grade it could/should have been versus the 6.5 actual grade after the damage. You HAVE to buy them at a discount to cover problems like this. They can't all be winners. Or you could just buy the book as it is, not press it, and get what you paid for? Expecting discounts so you can cover potential restoration disasters seems wrongheaded, somehow. thirdgreenham and Hudson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jharvey Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, F For Fake said: Or you could just buy the book as it is, not press it, and get what you paid for? Expecting discounts so you can cover potential restoration disasters seems wrongheaded, somehow. That's like saying a comic shop shouldn't factor in the price of rent, employee wages, insurance, etc. into the price they will buy a comic for. It's all part of the cost to do business. Edited August 18, 2017 by jharvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 35 minutes ago, jharvey said: I recently bought an Incredible Hulk #180 in around VF condition which should have easily pressed up to NM-. I sent it to CCS for pressing and CGC for grading. It came back 6.5 grade with the top staple completely popped off from the cover. Best looking 6.5 grade comic I've ever seen. That's a loss to me of roughly $438 between the 9.2 grade it could/should have been versus the 6.5 actual grade after the damage. You HAVE to buy them at a discount to cover problems like this. They can't all be winners. Sorry but I don't agree with you at all. You cannot expect the seller to assume financial coverage for any future mishaps. F For Fake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jharvey Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Bomber-Bob said: Sorry but I don't agree with you at all. You cannot expect the seller to assume financial coverage for any future mishaps. And that's why you would have trouble running a business and making a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, jharvey said: That's like saying a comic shop shouldn't factor in the price of rent, employee wages, insurance, etc. into the price they will buy a comic for. It's all part of the cost to do business. Bad analogy. These are planned expenses. The popped staple was not planned. F For Fake and thirdgreenham 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F For Fake Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, jharvey said: That's like saying a comic shop shouldn't factor in the price of rent, employee wages, insurance, etc. into the price they will buy a comic for. It's all part of the cost to do business. I don't think they're related in any way, but it's Friday and not looking for a fight, so you do what works for you, bud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F For Fake Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Bomber-Bob said: Bad analogy. These are planned expenses. The popped staple was not planned. And not only was it not planned, it was created by a need to try to squeeze more money out of the book than it was actually worth (based on the condition it was in at time of purchase.) Ok, that's it, I'm out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, jharvey said: And that's why you would have trouble running a business and making a profit. And that's why you are going to have trouble purchasing quality material for a fair price. It seems you want to win every transaction by trying to factor in the worst case scenario. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jharvey Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Just now, Bomber-Bob said: And that's why you are going to have trouble purchasing quality material for a fair price. It seems you want to win every transaction by trying to factor in the worst case scenario. Good luck with that. Trust me sir, I'm doing quite well with no upset customers, on the buying or selling side, that I'm aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKinTO Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 It's an interesting corollary whether as a buyer, you should ever be willing to pay a price "above" the value of the comic in its existing condition, if you think it's a good pressing candidate (and thus, are willing to give up some of that upside to get a sale done). On the flip side, whether as a seller, you should ever reasonably expect to get more than the as-is price for a good pressing candidate. I personally think no, but some people may think differently. Something similar I see more frequently, and I find more tricky, is the pricing of raw books in the grey area between 9.6 and 9.8. Given the slabbed price of these 2 grades can be multiples of each other (ie. a 9.8 selling for 2-3x the price of a 9.6 for some books), and the difference between them so small, I see many sellers trying to sell raws above the market price of a slabbed 9.6. My general view is that for a legitimate 9.8 candidate, I'm willing to pay up to graded 9.6 prices (exc. grading costs) so that if it does come out 9.6, I break even... of course, for the right book, I may be willing to pay a bit more, but it has to really be a stone-cold 9.8 candidate (and I generally will only do these in person, not through mail given shipping/handling risk) and the upside if it gets 9.8 has to really be worth it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumantorch Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 hour ago, CKinTO said: It's an interesting corollary whether as a buyer, you should ever be willing to pay a price "above" the value of the comic in its existing condition, if you think it's a good pressing candidate (and thus, are willing to give up some of that upside to get a sale done). On the flip side, whether as a seller, you should ever reasonably expect to get more than the as-is price for a good pressing candidate. I personally think no, but some people may think differently. Something similar I see more frequently, and I find more tricky, is the pricing of raw books in the grey area between 9.6 and 9.8. Given the slabbed price of these 2 grades can be multiples of each other (ie. a 9.8 selling for 2-3x the price of a 9.6 for some books), and the difference between them so small, I see many sellers trying to sell raws above the market price of a slabbed 9.6. My general view is that for a legitimate 9.8 candidate, I'm willing to pay up to graded 9.6 prices (exc. grading costs) so that if it does come out 9.6, I break even... of course, for the right book, I may be willing to pay a bit more, but it has to really be a stone-cold 9.8 candidate (and I generally will only do these in person, not through mail given shipping/handling risk) and the upside if it gets 9.8 has to really be worth it... Very reasonable post. I see sellers asking 9.8 prices for raws but that leaves all the risk on the buyer and none of the upside. Generally we ask 9.6 prices for books we believe are 9.8 or borderline 9.8, but if it's a desirable book and appears to be a slam dunk 9.8 we'll usually get it graded ourselves. To get the 9.8 value we have to assume the grading risk and the cost. jimjum12 and thirdgreenham 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foolkiller Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 On 8/18/2017 at 11:28 AM, jharvey said: That's like saying a comic shop shouldn't factor in the price of rent, employee wages, insurance, etc. into the price they will buy a comic for. It's all part of the cost to do business. It depends on how the book was priced, if it was priced at a VF Fair market value, then you got what you paid for, you incur the risk if you want to further upgrade it. If the store owner is charging VF+ or VF/NM money based on the fact that it "might" upgrade, then I think a discount negotiation is fair to offset to some degree what you're alluding to, the potential risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKinTO Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 9 hours ago, thehumantorch said: Very reasonable post. I see sellers asking 9.8 prices for raws but that leaves all the risk on the buyer and none of the upside. Generally we ask 9.6 prices for books we believe are 9.8 or borderline 9.8, but if it's a desirable book and appears to be a slam dunk 9.8 we'll usually get it graded ourselves. To get the 9.8 value we have to assume the grading risk and the cost. Definitely agree - I think anyone asking near 9.8 price for a raw is being unreasonable. As a buyer, you might as well just buy an already slabbed 9.8 then - why take on the risk, cost and time of slabbing? When ASM300 9.8's hit $2500 (and 9.6's were around $750), I remember seeing some raw "NM+ 9.8 candidates" on ebay go for $1000. In terms of the spectrum of "how much over 9.6 prices I'd be willing to pay for a 9.8 candidate", I think that's about right for me (a little over, but definitely much closer to the 9.6 price than 9.8), although I personally would never have done that over ebay, only if I could see the book in person and take home myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelangelo Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 On 8/13/2017 at 6:04 PM, JohnFranklin said: so my question is, should a dealer generally have reasonable grading skills? To answer the OP's question... yes I think if you want to be a comic dealer, you should have very reasonable grading skills. Maybe even under grade books a touch to keep people happy, and give customers the feeling that they're getting good value out of a transaction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelangelo Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Two scenarios: book 1: bought from dealer A, subjectively graded by said dealer at 8.0 and it came back 9.0 book 2: bought from dealer B, subjectively graded by said dealer at 8.0 and it came back a 7.0 where would you buy your next book? thirdgreenham and kav 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, Michelangelo said: Two scenarios: book 1: bought from dealer A, subjectively graded by said dealer at 8.0 and it came back 9.0 book 2: bought from dealer B, subjectively graded by said dealer at 8.0 and it came back a 7.0 where would you buy your next book? book 3: didn't buy from dealer C, subjectively graded by said dealer at $400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelangelo Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Just now, kav said: book 3: didn't buy from dealer C, subjectively graded by said dealer at $400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 -came back a $45 lizards2 and Michelangelo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
