Bronty Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) The last one is over... on to the new one! There's nice stuff as always, but with only 27 pieces posted so far and even of those, many not having images yet, nothing really catches my eye. Perhaps the Kirby Ant-man below as it has what I would want in an Ant-man, but even that's a stretch tbh. I'm sure that will change shortly and lots of great pieces will be added... post 'em as you see 'em! Edited August 16, 2017 by Bronty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICKYBOBBY Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 This piece is exciting .. any ideas what the hammer price maybe? Doubt it would be in my price range https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jack-kirby-and-joe-sinnott-marvel-s-greatest-comics-70-cover-fantastic-four-original-art-m/p/7169-15001.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 ah, the image is up! looks better than I guessed from looking at the printed copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, RICKYBOBBY said: This piece is exciting .. any ideas what the hammer price maybe? Doubt it would be in my price range https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jack-kirby-and-joe-sinnott-marvel-s-greatest-comics-70-cover-fantastic-four-original-art-m/p/7169-15001.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515 I have no idea. My patented buttquote system wants to say... 50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICKYBOBBY Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 On 2017-08-16 at 5:08 PM, Bronty said: I have no idea. My patented buttquote system wants to say... 50? That seems to be a reasonable price. But the good pieces never end at reasonable prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 On 8/16/2017 at 6:01 PM, RICKYBOBBY said: This piece is exciting .. any ideas what the hammer price maybe? Doubt it would be in my price range https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jack-kirby-and-joe-sinnott-marvel-s-greatest-comics-70-cover-fantastic-four-original-art-m/p/7169-15001.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515 I remember seeing that piece somewhere in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glendgold Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, comix4fun said: I remember seeing that piece somewhere in the past. I think this showed up about 10-12 years ago and it turned out to be all Sinnott. I don't quite understand the current credits (Kirby didn't do cover layouts, especially in the 1970s). Does it mean Jack did the FF 88 cover it's based on? Edited August 24, 2017 by glendgold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 That's interesting...looking at Reed's face I would have first guessed it was Buscema inked by Sinnott, but I can see how it would be all Sinnott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICKYBOBBY Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 It's kinda weird. Like you said looking at Reeds face its definitely not Kirby. But if you look at some of the other faces and hands they look like Kirby for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Sid Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 It's signed by Kirby. What is that worth to this discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhamlau Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Whats more, its signed in pencil not ink. Small detail but it tends to lend something to the argument that kirby had a hand in penciling it (signed at the time completed or as evidence of his involvement). In my read on the description is that kirby didnt do Finished pencils/breakdowns on this where details like faces and cloth drapery would be defined but did just loose layouts that were finished and then inked by Sinnott. That would be incredibly hard to prove either way to be honest, but clearly he laid pencil to paper on this by the signature alone. Would he really sign an illustration done in his style that he had no hand in drawing, back in the 70s no less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, zhamlau said: Whats more, its signed in pencil not ink. Small detail but it tends to lend something to the argument that kirby had a hand in penciling it (signed at the time completed or as evidence of his involvement). In my read on the description is that kirby didnt do Finished pencils/breakdowns on this where details like faces and cloth drapery would be defined but did just loose layouts that were finished and then inked by Sinnott. That would be incredibly hard to prove either way to be honest, but clearly he laid pencil to paper on this by the signature alone. Would he really sign an illustration done in his style that he had no hand in drawing, back in the 70s no less? Well, we don't know when he signed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhamlau Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, comix4fun said: On 8/16/2017 at 7:01 PM, RICKYBOBBY said: This piece is exciting .. any ideas what the hammer price maybe? Doubt it would be in my price range https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jack-kirby-and-joe-sinnott-marvel-s-greatest-comics-70-cover-fantastic-four-original-art-m/p/7169-15001.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515 I remember seeing that piece somewhere in the past. When i was looking at the autograph, i kept thinking it looked like an older style. The edges sharper more defined than those looser ones you see on the x-men 1 reprints for example (but to be fair he signed 2500 of them so that wears down the signature quality and definition). Taking age out, would Jack sign another mans cover done in his style? Would he try and take credit for another's work is the basic question? Thats where you sign when thats your art, he did it often as far as i can see. Would he lay his mark on another mans work and claim it as his own? Edited August 24, 2017 by zhamlau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Just now, zhamlau said: When i was looking at the autograph, i kept thinking it looked like an older style. The edges sharper more defined than those looser ones you see on the x-men 1 reprints for example (but to be fair he signed 2500 of them so that wears down the signature quality and definition). Taking age out, would Jack sign another mans cover done in his style? Would he try and take credit for another's work is the basic question? Thats where you sign when thats your art, he did it often as far as i can see. Would he lay his mark on another mans work and claim it as his own? Could have been accidentally returned to Jack in '87. That would do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhamlau Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 1 minute ago, comix4fun said: Could have been accidentally returned to Jack in '87. That would do it. but would he sign it? Like thats pretty no-no usually for artists. Would love to hear any hard info on this one since honestly I thought about this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 And really, an artist signing a piece that he didn't work on has happened before. I remember one very high profile cover that a dealer stuck under Frank Miller's nose and had him sign that Frank didn't have anything to do with. In Jack's case, his name is there, how or why or when is up for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flambit Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 This is indeed a troublesome piece. Great image, but I agree, most of the details just don't look like Kirby to me. I understand what glendgold says, that he never did breakdowns in the 70s, but I'm just so inclined to think that maybe this was the one great possible exception. Maybe he was asked at the very last minute to rough out a cover and threw it into a package of art bound for Marvel while the mailman was standing at the door. I've read interviews with Roy Thomas - I'm very loosely paraphrasing here - where it seemed like he was always trying to get Kirby to do covers and really wanted him back on the FF... Thomas did get him to do quite a few FF covers for the book proper... Maybe this was to mollify Thomas somehow? I know a lot about Kirby in the 70's as that's one of my big wheelhouses, but my knowledge is certainly not on the level of the Kirby experts here, so I'd always be willing to defer to them. But I honestly don't think we'll never really know what happened. My opinion, for what it's worth (not much haha), I think the signature in pencil on an inked cover really points to breakdowns and he did it last minute. Again, I'm only an armchair expert. A Kirby FF cover would be a big, big get for me - on the level of a Byrne X-Men cover - and ultimately, I don't think I could bid on this one. Too many questions in the mix. Now for unsubstantiated rumors, just regarding the presence of the signature - that is, a Kirby signature on a piece that may or may not be by Kirby, not this particular piece. This is a story I heard a long time ago, it might be a known story, I don't know, but I always thought it underlined the generosity of the man himself, so I apologize if I'm misremembering it if it is, in fact, a known tale. Story went, someone that Kirby knew - don't remember the relationship or context - presented Kirby with a lightboxed Doom sketch he had bought somewhere. It looked professionally done, but it was pretty clear Kirby never touched it. Kirby, knowing this, just shrugged and signed it so the person in question could claim it as an actual Kirby and make his money back if he was inclined to sell it (keep in mind, back in those day, how much was a small, single figure Kirby commission worth - $30-$40?). So possibly Kirby signed this FF piece after the fact just because he was an amazing human - but he usually signed in pen as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICKYBOBBY Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Well GCD states that it's Kirby pencils and Sinnott inks. https://www.comics.org/issue/31045/ If I was the owner I wouldn't be happy it being listed this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 1 hour ago, comix4fun said: And really, an artist signing a piece that he didn't work on has happened before. I remember one very high profile cover that a dealer stuck under Frank Miller's nose and had him sign that Frank didn't have anything to do with. In Jack's case, his name is there, how or why or when is up for discussion. Are you referring to Ed Hannigan's Captain America Annual #5? If not, add that one to your list of signed by Frank but not by Frank And I think we need to be aware that GCD data may not always be 100% either... https://www.comics.org/issue/34974/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twanj Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 If Sinnott remembers this particular cover, they could ask him...if they really want the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
