HULK vs THOR!!! 3 3

[SC22]

1 minute ago, woowoo said:

Ya both books are great but since I opened my mouth I have to stick with Thor. I like them both hard choice  They are both

Yes but in the last year everything has been AF15 the other top ten SA books with the exception of ASM1 (because of the increase in value of AF15 it followed suit) have been very slow to increase in value if at all.

Edited August 20, 2017 by SC22

[woowoo]

Just now, SC22 said:

Yes but in the last year everything has been AF15 the other top ten with the exception of ASM1 (because of the increase in value of AF15) have been very slow to increase in value if at all.

I forgot abought ASM-1 that book has been going up in lower grade since Fantasy 15 is getting out of reach for most.

[Sweet Lou 14]

Apologies if my post is a mini-hijack, but bear with me ...

Having recently bought an AF 15 I am trying to figure out which Marvel key(s) should be next on my list.  My personal top two would be JIM 83 and TOS 39, not only for sentimental reasons (I never enjoyed Hulk nearly as much as Thor and Iron Man) but also because of their relative affordability as compared to Hulk 1 or FF 1.  Also under consideration would be ASM 1 and XM 1.  A full tier below this group of books (again, based on my personal preferences) would be TTA 27/35 and ST 110.  DD 1 is in a separate category for me -- I'm not going to settle for anything short of very high grade for this one because (so I've been told) it's relatively common.

All other things being equal, I'm curious what people think would be the wisest purchase from an investment standpoint among these books.  Right now I am thinking I should focus on finding higher-grade copies of JIM 83 and TOS 39 rather than an equivalently-priced lower-grade copy of Hulk 1.  But I'm trying to make good decisions.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Sweet Lou 14

[Straw-Man]

for a child of the 60's, ff 1 would be the strong suggestion.

[Straw-Man]

11 hours ago, woowoo said:

I think most people would put JIM-83 in front of FF-1 if you took a poll. I don't know how to do a poll on these new boards.

 

that poll result would be similar to g.a.tor opining that wuerffel was a better qb than elway, imo.

[Sweet Lou 14]

1 hour ago, Straw-Man said:

for a child of the 60's, ff 1 would be the strong suggestion.

 

5 minutes ago, Straw-Man said:

that poll result would be similar to g.a.tor opining that wuerffel was a better qb than elway, imo.

Very much appreciate your advice.

I'm inferring that you believe FF 1 is currently undervalued, perhaps in part because of the poor job they did with the most recent movie.  Not sure how to reach an informed opinion on that, but it sounds plausible.  I see some others making a case that JIM 83 and/or TOS 39 are undervalued (or at least, poised for more gains) despite the obvious success of the Avengers film franchise.

I want to get them all, so maybe it's just a matter of snapping up whichever one presents itself first at a grade and price I believe in.  Generally speaking, my collecting style is to assemble runs and to own a single copy of each book in my collection.  So what I'm struggling with a bit is whether I should grab mid-grade copies of each key to get my foot in the door, and then look to upgrade over time, or spend big on one key at a time in higher grade.

For reference, I have AF 15 in 5.0 and Avengers 1 in 8.0.  I am thinking of 8.0 or perhaps 9.0 as my target grade for JIM 83, TOS 39, ST 110, and X-Men 1.  For FF 1 and Hulk 1 I'm probably thinking 5.0 or 6.0.  For DD 1 I don't want to settle for less than 9.4 with white pages.  (This is all off the top of my head -- I am not necessarily saying I think these books in these grades are equivalently priced.)

[alexgross.com]

1 hour ago, Straw-Man said:

for a child of the 60's, ff 1 would be the strong suggestion.

this is also off topic, but here goes. IMHO the fantastic four will never regain the pop culture dominance they once had. at its core, they've got too many issues, and only the Thing really connects with most kids. all movie depictions of them fail to excite, and there's no reason to see that changing. of course ff1 will always be a special book because of its importance in the mcu and for its rarity, but if the kids dont care about the characters, it seems unlikely to be so highly sought after in the future in the way all avengers-related characters are (which also now includes spidey, not that he needed alot of help). 

[Spiderturtle]

3 minutes ago, www.alexgross.com said:

this is also off topic, but here goes. IMHO the fantastic four will never regain the pop culture dominance they once had. at its core, they've got too many issues, and only the Thing really connects with most kids. all movie depictions of them fail to excite, and there's no reason to see that changing. of course ff1 will always be a special book because of its importance in the mcu and for its rarity, but if the kids dont care about the characters, it seems unlikely to be so highly sought after in the future in the way all avengers-related characters are (which also now includes spidey, not that he needed alot of help). 

+1

[silverweb]

Yes, the FF movies have been dogs ( a pity!) but I am glad I have both FF 1 and JIM 83 in my collection. I purchased an IH 1 also, although he was not a favorite read, just to have it crossed off my bucket list.  I enjoyed reading both FF and Thor as a kid, especially the Thors with the great Kirby art and Norse/Asgardian mythology .  Thor on the big screen has not been disappointing.  

[FineCollector]

4 hours ago, www.alexgross.com said:

this is also off topic, but here goes. IMHO the fantastic four will never regain the pop culture dominance they once had. at its core, they've got too many issues, and only the Thing really connects with most kids. all movie depictions of them fail to excite, and there's no reason to see that changing. of course ff1 will always be a special book because of its importance in the mcu and for its rarity, but if the kids dont care about the characters, it seems unlikely to be so highly sought after in the future in the way all avengers-related characters are (which also now includes spidey, not that he needed alot of help). 

Wholeheartedly disagree on several levels.  Poor writing killed the movie franchise, but give the FF back to Marvel Studios, and it'll be a major success.  Sue is girl power, Thing is the gruff but loveable, humourous brute, Torch is the hotshot heartthrob.  All of those are easy to like for all ages, and get Reed to out-talk and out-smart Stark, and everyone will like Reed too.  The previous movies forcefed viewers those tropes, and expected you to like them without a reason, rather than letting you explore them yourself.  The Fantastic Four are a family, and it's the love amid the bickering, and concern for one another that sets them apart, and makes them easy to empathize with.  I'm of the opinion that anyone who doesn't like the Fantastic Four hasn't read Fantastic Four.

[SC22]

13 hours ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Apologies if my post is a mini-hijack, but bear with me ...

Having recently bought an AF 15 I am trying to figure out which Marvel key(s) should be next on my list.  My personal top two would be JIM 83 and TOS 39, not only for sentimental reasons (I never enjoyed Hulk nearly as much as Thor and Iron Man) but also because of their relative affordability as compared to Hulk 1 or FF 1.  Also under consideration would be ASM 1 and XM 1.  A full tier below this group of books (again, based on my personal preferences) would be TTA 27/35 and ST 110.  DD 1 is in a separate category for me -- I'm not going to settle for anything short of very high grade for this one because (so I've been told) it's relatively common.

All other things being equal, I'm curious what people think would be the wisest purchase from an investment standpoint among these books.  Right now I am thinking I should focus on finding higher-grade copies of JIM 83 and TOS 39 rather than an equivalently-priced lower-grade copy of Hulk 1.  But I'm trying to make good decisions.

Between JIM83 and TOS39 I would go with JIM83 it's a tougher book. I prefer Iron Man over Thor but if I had a choice to make on what book I would buy first JIM83 would be it.

[90sChild]

Back on topic.

If i completely remove myself from the normal thought patterns of a comic fan, I would say Hulk is more valuable as a Marvel character, simply because he seems to be a more original idea.  Thor is borrowed from norse stories so yes Marvel may have made him into their own thing, but the originality of Hulk would win out in the hearts and minds of casual fans.

Edited August 20, 2017 by 90sChild

[Spyderfan]

Like 90sChild has said, JIM83 was brought upon by borrowed mythology, and not an original character at all.  Someday the light will fade because of that in and of itself, regardless of movie hype.   

[marmat]

I think Thor 3 will boost value on both  books

[Readcomix]

20 hours ago, www.alexgross.com said:

this is also off topic, but here goes. IMHO the fantastic four will never regain the pop culture dominance they once had. at its core, they've got too many issues, and only the Thing really connects with most kids. all movie depictions of them fail to excite, and there's no reason to see that changing. of course ff1 will always be a special book because of its importance in the mcu and for its rarity, but if the kids dont care about the characters, it seems unlikely to be so highly sought after in the future in the way all avengers-related characters are (which also now includes spidey, not that he needed alot of help). 

You could run this logic in the GA too with Action 1 vs Tec 27, except it doesn't work for one reason: Action 1 is the prime mover, the first comic to ignite the genre, and despite Supes' fading star as long as new collectors learn history it will endure in the hobby. 

FF1 is to Marvel what Action 1 is to comics overall (someone made the AF15/AC 1 analogy earlier; from the point of historic significance that's incorrect. AF15 correlates to Tec 27 in that both are the first appearances of the currently most popular characters of the GA and SA.) The books that have historic importance on their side in addition to the characters' popularity level are AC1, FF 1 and of course SC4, though it's outside this discussion and GA analogy.

To my mind, the future financial value of FF1 relies as much on young/future collectors being knowledgeable of history as it does on characters' popularity. (Same could said of the value of TTA 27, a far tougher Marvel key than any of the ones we're discussing. I mention it as an aside because someone earlier named the three toughest Marvel keys and left it out. I think it's by far the toughest of the early Marvel keys.)

[Drummy]

Hey everyone --

A couple thoughts on this great conversation.  You can't go wrong with any of these books, but my take on the FF is that the movies have crushed any sense of contemporary interest in the group.  If someone put the Russo brothers (with writers Markus and McFeeley) on an FF movie for Marvel, I would say the tables would turn rather quickly.  As usual with modern audiences, the rule of the day is "What have you done for me lately?"  One great/fun movie and the FF would be back in the pop culture picture.

Regarding Hulk vs. Thor, I think Hulk #1 is the stronger choice, but not for the reasons stated above.  There's not much original about the Hulk -- he's basically a variation on Jekyll/Hyde or perhaps Frankenstein's creature -- but the character has had more prominence historically and is "cooler" with a wider audience overall.  Plus, to me the cover has more resonance than JIM #83.

Dan

[alexgross.com]

1 hour ago, Drummy said:

Hey everyone --

A couple thoughts on this great conversation.  You can't go wrong with any of these books, but my take on the FF is that the movies have crushed any sense of contemporary interest in the group.  If someone put the Russo brothers (with writers Markus and McFeeley) on an FF movie for Marvel, I would say the tables would turn rather quickly.  As usual with modern audiences, the rule of the day is "What have you done for me lately?"  One great/fun movie and the FF would be back in the pop culture picture.

Regarding Hulk vs. Thor, I think Hulk #1 is the stronger choice, but not for the reasons stated above.  There's not much original about the Hulk -- he's basically a variation on Jekyll/Hyde or perhaps Frankenstein's creature -- but the character has had more prominence historically and is "cooler" with a wider audience overall.  Plus, to me the cover has more resonance than JIM #83.

Dan

i am glad that i started this thread, there's been a lot of great opinions coming forth. totally agree that both the hulk and thor are fairly unoriginal characters, but i'm not sure how important that is for a character to become popular. i think costume is more important. i.e. spidey, wolverine, batman.

on the subject that i touched earlier, off topic, that the FF are never really going to make it in hollywood, i want to elaborate a little bit. i grew up reading comics from the 60s in the 70s, and continued reading current comics through the 80s. let's take the early FF stuff-- it's basically dad (reed richards) telling his woefully weak girlfriend sue, her hotshot brother bobby and their now disfigured friend ben what to do most of the time. ben and bobby have to waste at least a page or two most issues bickering and setting the baxter building on fire. the most interesting characters in those issues are doctor doom and later norrin radd.  i read them through john byrne's era, and although the plots became more sophisticated, they were still more or less this symbol of a dysfunctional family in boring 1950s middle class america. only ben had darkness and conflict. and they all wore the same costumes (even the x-men figured out that was boring). i loved the kirby art, and always wanted to like the FF, but they never became interesting for me the way the x-men did (mutants!! claws!! costumes!!), or spider-man. nothing ever seemed to freshen them up. compare their evolution to what frank miller did with the dark knight and DD in the 80s. and now we see direct reference to frank miller's writing and stylistic influence in both of those properties, significantly contributing to their current success on the big and small screens. if the FF could be done cooler, it seems they would have by now.  there's something naively charming about the early FF comics, like all early marvel output, but i don't see them becoming realistic or interesting on film any time soon, if ever. i don't care who directs. and i think young folks feel this even more than i do. 

[Dick Pontoon]

Even with potential future movie popularity, it would be hard for Thor to overtake the Hulk. Outside of the Big 3 (Supes, Bats, Spidey) the Hulk is one of the most recognizable superheroes across the world. He’s had much more of a marketing presence over the years with various toys and tchotchkes, plus his TV series ran for 5 years and put him on the map with general, non-fanboy audiences. It even spawned some made-for-TV movies which were released overseas as features.

[piper]

15 minutes ago, Pontoon said:

Even with potential future movie popularity, it would be hard for Thor to overtake the Hulk. Outside of the Big 3 (Supes, Bats, Spidey) the Hulk is one of the most recognizable superheroes across the world. He’s had much more of a marketing presence over the years with various toys and tchotchkes, plus his TV series ran for 5 years and put him on the map with general, non-fanboy audiences. It even spawned some made-for-TV movies which were released overseas as features.

I agree but the current generation never watched the TV show and the solo Hulk movies we're forgettable.

My son's favourite characters are Iron Man, Thor, and Spider-Man (in that order).

[alexgross.com]

21 minutes ago, piper said:

I agree but the current generation never watched the TV show and the solo Hulk movies we're forgettable.

My son's favourite characters are Iron Man, Thor, and Spider-Man (in that order).

yeah, i watched lou ferrigno too, religiously as a kid. loved it. but as piper said, its about what this generation loves, and iron man, thor and spidey seem to be the big ones along with cap, for marvel silver age. (i know cap is golden age) just seems like for 2 books with comparable census numbers (though hulk 1 is harder in grade), thor has more long term potential as a character. are they making another hulk film? not sure, but i think they'll keep making thors. and once robert downey is too old to be iron man, they'll reboot him and release more solo iron man movies like they did w spidey.