JOKER: THE MOVIE produced by Martin Scorsese (TBD) 1 1

[fantastic_four]

56 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Next they will be telling us video games cause violence, but that was disproven when someone on reddit mentioned Japan were most of the videogames are made and are even more popular than USA have or had no such violent acts.

It's not causation; it's more like tossing gas on a fire that's already raging.  Which is no good argument against creating Grand Theft Auto OR this film, and it's a weak one for arguing that Todd Phillips and Joquain Phoenix should have chosen not to make it.

The reason we're hearing about this now from critics is due to the exponential increase in mass shootings in America.  But with the vast majority of those the most direct cause is the increase of mass media over the past century--suicidal people can now go out in a blaze of glory and become instantly infamous instead of quietly shooting themselves in the face at home.  There are multiple reasons we don't see this trend in Japan, but the reason it's happening in America as opposed to other countries isn't as well understood.  The main reason it doesn't happen there is due to laws and culture.  Suicide has long been a more accepted part of Japanese culture, and even if you wanted to take out everyone you work with before you go it's far harder to get guns there than in America.  The only guns that are legal there are shotguns and hunting rifles.

[Bosco685]

24 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

BOTH are true, and EVERY serial or mass killer has long-term issues and thoughts of killing people.  Killers aren't just born overnight, they follow a long and unpredictably twisting path that begins when they're young children.  For Holmes, Heath Ledger was a part of that path, and as we both pointed out it was at the end.  Had he not been inspired by that character he probably would've ended up shooting someone else in a different venue at some point.

I can tell you truly believe this, no matter the facts. Even with the psychiatrist notes and the court details what inspired him to even be at The Dark Knight Rises midnight showing.

18 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

He did what he did because he's a psychopath.  The evidence that he was inspired by the character is not just him saying it, but him dying his hair the same color as Ledger, and choosing the premiere of Dark Knight Rises.

The quibbling here seems to be over what the word "inspire" means.  It's not a synonym for Ledger's character CAUSING the killing, but he was clearly inspired by Ledger's Joker.

Again, I can tell you truly believe this. No matter the facts. Died orange hair and all. That's very clear. 

[fantastic_four]

7 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Even with the psychiatrist notes and the court details what inspired him to even be at The Dark Knight Rises midnight showing.

Feel free to quote whichever notes and court transcript bits you're referring to, but I'm guessing it'll just come down to quibbling over semantics so it's probably not useful.  As far as I can tell we're actually in agreement.

[Bosco685]

19 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Feel free to quote whichever notes and court transcript bits you're referring to, but I'm guessing it'll just come down to quibbling over semantics so it's probably not useful.  As far as I can tell we're actually in agreement.

Although no reason to fight over anything here (unless that was you that snuck over and took a bite out of my sandwich), but I think on the motivations and reasoning we are not. Even his picking the theater that he did, it was to avoid shooting children and not having to deal with airport security which was one of his original targets. He didn't even if a message came out of his actions, which is why he DIDN'T do the airport as it could also be interpreted as terrorism.

[Comicopolis]

2 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Next they will be telling us video games cause violence, but that was disproven when someone on reddit mentioned Japan were most of the videogames are made and are even more popular than USA have or had no such violent acts.

 

[NoMan]

 

 

On 5/16/2019 at 9:14 AM, Bosco685 said:

Some bloggers gained access to the Joker -----script (a version of it) and have started to post the details online before the movie even comes out.

People are furious that such details are now floating around out there, for whatever reason.

I'm one of those "hard working people" who work on films. I couldn't care less if you read the ---script of a film I worked on and told the world. I know many other "hard working people" who work on films. 30 years worth of "hard working people" and I've never met one that would give a rat's a**. Whomever this Keiley Kaiser person is should probably spend their time on something besides worrying about The Joker ---script being leaked. I'm imagining she/he/it is delusional and would crumple within seconds of being on a film set and seeing how hard the work is. She/He/It is probably better suited for Twitter/Instagram hoping to become a studio mouthpiece and film "influencer. So much so the studios give her AN ALL EXPENSE PAID JUNKET WITH TOYS AND TREATS FROM THE FILM for her to say what the studios want her to say. Just sit behind that keyboard and tell us all what you think and tell us all what we should do. Now that's some serious work.

 

BTW - it's funny as heck to watch the Social Media influencer junket. Somebody has to babysit these clowns and wow them with their own director's chair and a coke from craft services. OMG THIS MOVIE IS SOOOO GOOD!

Edited September 11, 2019 by NoMan

[fantastic_four]

31 minutes ago, NoMan said:

I couldn't care less if you read the ----script of a film I worked on and told the world.

Virtually all studios do though, don't they?

[grebal]

^Not so much if people say they like it.

[Bosco685]

40 minutes ago, NoMan said:

I'm one of those "hard working people" who work on films. I couldn't care less if you read the ----script of a film I worked on and told the world. I know many other "hard working people" who work on films. 30 years worth of "hard working people" and I've never met one that would give a rat's a**. Whomever this Keiley Kaiser person is should probably spend their time on something besides worrying about The Joker ----script being leaked. I'm imagining she/he/it is delusional and would crumple within seconds of being on a film set and seeing how hard the work is. She/He/It is probably better suited for Twitter/Instagram hoping to become a studio mouthpiece and film "influencer. So much so the studios give her AN ALL EXPENSE PAID JUNKET WITH TOYS AND TREATS FROM THE FILM for her to say what the studios want her to say. Just sit behind that keyboard and tell us all what you think and tell us all what we should do. Now that's some serious work.

BTW - it's funny as heck to watch the Social Media influencer junket. Somebody has to babysit these clowns and wow them with their own director's chair and a coke from craft services. OMG THIS MOVIE IS SOOOO GOOD!

So you mean when the Russo Brothers posted a letter to the viewing community that nobody should leak the details in advance if they are true fans, this was overreaction? 

Wait. I thought you said nobody in the industry cares about these things. Including the biggest film ever worrying if people leaked details in advance.

DEAR RUSSO BROTHERS,

I HAVE IT ON GOOD AUTHORITY HARD-WORKING FILMMAKERS DO NOT CARE ABOUT SUCH THINGS. PLEASE GET BACK TO WORK!

SIGNED,

A KNOWING FAN

p.s. Can I please get 3-D tickets for being such a big fan? 

[NoMan]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

Virtually all studios do though, don't they?

Whomever this blogger person is said "the hard working people who made the film" care. And 99% of the hard working people don't. The studios and directors and the high up muckty mucks, well yeah, they care, but the crew does not. 

[Bosco685]

Just now, NoMan said:

Whomever this blogger person is said "the hard working people who made the film" care. And 99% of the hard working people don't. The studios and directors and the high up muckty mucks, well yeah, they care, but the crew does not. 

Oh no! No disclaimer inserts now like the best of studio contract negotiators.

You said no hardworking film people care about these things. That was the statement. Done deal. Spit in the hand-and-handshake binding. I read it.

[NoMan]

58 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

So you mean when the Russo Brothers posted a letter to the viewing community that nobody should leak the details in advance if they are true fans, this was overreaction? 

Wait. I thought you said nobody in the industry cares about these things. Including the biggest film ever worrying if people leaked details in advance.

DEAR RUSSO BROTHERS,

I HAVE IT ON GOOD AUTHORITY HARD-WORKING FILMMAKERS DO NOT CARE ABOUT SUCH THINGS. PLEASE GET BACK TO WORK!

SIGNED,

A KNOWING FAN

p.s. Can I please get 3-D tickets for being such a big fan? 

Again, this blogger said the hard working people of the film care, and mostly they don't. That's all I'm saying. Of course the big shots care. They can't remain kings of a fiefdom if nobody comes to their moves. My point is that these folks who claim to speak for the crews don't. I'm telling ya my man, 98% of the folk who worked on Endgame or whatever it is these guys did don't care. They really dont.

[NoMan]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Oh no! No disclaimer inserts now like the best of studio contract negotiators.

You said no hardworking film people care about these things. That was the statement. Done deal. Spit in the hand-and-handshake binding. I read it.

Compared to the work I and other lowly crew do, I don't consider directors and producers and studio heads living in the big black tower as "hardworking."

You've either lived it or you've just read about it. I've lived it. You?

But do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law and if you don't want these masterpieces spoiled, I dunno what to tell you. I won't spoil 'em for ya. The rest of the internet that seems to make a living parasitically off the film industry, go argue with them.

Edited September 11, 2019 by NoMan

[fantastic_four]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

He didn't even if a message came out of his actions, which is why he DIDN'T do the airport as it could also be interpreted as terrorism.

I didn't realize Holmes had said this, and I see his exact quote in court was "Terrorism isn't the message. The message is, there is no message."  Does that craft his image for the world as being more, or less, similar to the Joker?  

[NoMan]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

So you mean when the Russo Brothers posted a letter to the viewing community that nobody should leak the details in advance if they are true fans, this was overreaction? 

Wait. I thought you said nobody in the industry cares about these things. Including the biggest film ever worrying if people leaked details in advance.

DEAR RUSSO BROTHERS,

I HAVE IT ON GOOD AUTHORITY HARD-WORKING FILMMAKERS DO NOT CARE ABOUT SUCH THINGS. PLEASE GET BACK TO WORK!

SIGNED,

A KNOWING FAN

p.s. Can I please get 3-D tickets for being such a big fan? 

as long as your writing these Russo guys, could you ask them if they care about the health and safety of crews working upwards of 20 hours day (meaning most of the crew live on abut 2 hours of sleep a day, often times and an hour and a half), 6 days a week as much as they do of somebody telling somebody else that Iron Man died? I mean lots of us crew don't want to die falling asleep at the wheel if that'a ok with the Russo Brothers. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by NoMan

[Bosco685]

21 minutes ago, NoMan said:

Again, this blogger said the hard working people of the film care, and mostly they don't. That's all I'm saying. Of course the big shots care. They can't remain kings of a fiefdom if nobody comes to their moves. My point is that these folks who claim to speak for the crews don't. I'm telling ya my man, 98% of the folk who worked on Endgame or whatever it is these guys did don't care. They really dont.

I get what you are saying. It is about the deliverables for a given role supporting production. But in the end part of the film excitement is the entire package coming together for movie-goers to actually appreciate all that hard work, or having it spoiled in advance leading to possible dissatisfaction because all the surprises are out of the bag. That has a satisfaction impact.

20 minutes ago, NoMan said:

Compared to the work I and other lowly crew do, I don't consider directors and producers and studio heads living in the big black tower as "hardworking."

You've either lived it or you've just read about it. I've lived it. You?

But do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law and if you don't want these masterpieces spoiled, I dunno what to tell you. I won't spoil 'em for ya. The rest of the internet that seems to make a living parasitically off the film industry, go argue with them.

Sorry, I didn't live it when it comes to making films. Was doing other work. I bow to your expertise. 

But wait a minute. Wait a minute. I think I do go to films to have a great time with limited spoilers in advance. Yup. That I do have a lot of experience with. So the numbed thinking 'nobody cares because the crew doesn't care' misses that mark directors and producers would be concerned with. And rightly so, as look at films or TV shows where someone spilled the beans in advance about an appearance, death, birth, etc.

I could be wrong. 

[Bosco685]

8 minutes ago, NoMan said:

as long as your writing these Russo guys, could you ask them if they care about the health and safety of crews working upwards of 20 hours day, 6 days a week as much as they do of somebody telling somebody else that Iron Man died?

I think your dissatisfaction with how the industry treats its 'working class' has made you slightly numb to the final output critical to a production - does it bring satisfaction to the viewers (including stories with surprises and twists)?

No offense meant to you. Have you considered joining us working stiffs in other industries that also have less green grass than you may assume? 

[Bosco685]

29 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

I didn't realize Holmes had said this, and I see his exact quote in court was "Terrorism isn't the message. The message is, there is no message."  Does that craft his image for the world as being more, or less, similar to the Joker?  

If you look for it to assume such influences, I'm sure you will find it. I heard at one point he even laughed during a conversation. Could that be the Joker influencing him with such actions? 

[NoMan]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

I get what you are saying. It is about the deliverables for a given role supporting production. But in the end part of the film excitement is the entire package coming together for movie-goers to actually appreciate all that hard work, or having it spoiled in advance leading to possible dissatisfaction because all the surprises are out of the bag. That has a satisfaction impact.

Sorry, I didn't live it when it comes to making films. Was doing other work. I bow to your expertise. 

But wait a minute. Wait a minute. I think I do go to films to have a great time with limited spoilers in advance. Yup. That I do have a lot of experience with. So the numbed thinking 'nobody cares because the crew doesn't care' misses that mark directors and producers would be concerned with. And rightly so, as look at films or TV shows where someone spilled the beans in advance about an appearance, death, birth, etc.

I could be wrong. 

There's nothing to bow to so no need. You're the smart one; you can still enjoy movies. I'm too tired to make heads or tails of the rest of your post. I'm just trying to say that the guy that wrapped lighting cable covered in human excrement and urine in downtown skid row Los Angeles at 6am this morning after a 19 hour day on the reboot TV show of Perry Mason doesn't care if you're leaked the ---script. And to that person it's all the same: Perry Mason, Iron Man, Jesus Christ, David Bowie, The Milk Man, A jar of mayonnaise. It's all one big spanish language pepto bismol commercial that some nowhere blogger thinks we care if you know how it ends.

Edited September 11, 2019 by NoMan

[NoMan]

59 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I think your dissatisfaction with how the industry treats its 'working class' has made you slightly numb to the final output critical to a production - does it bring satisfaction to the viewers (including stories with surprises and twists)?

No offense meant to you. Have you considered joining us working stiffs in other industries that also have less green grass than you may assume? 

 

Yes I am numb. You have to be to pull the kinds of hours and turn arounds we do. "Satisfaction to the viewers?" The viewer would be satisfied watching a monkey throw sh*t on a wall. I've heard that from more directors and producers than I can remember.

After 30 years, yes I'm trying to get out of the biz but not sure I can or know how. I know working stiffs come in all industries but the hours in the film industry just kills, man. On average after an AD (assistant director, both 1st, 2nd, and 2nd 2nds) retire they live about two years and die. From the hours and stress.

I wish I had a time machine and could go back and smack the younger me over the head when I got it in my head I wanted to learn how films were made. I got what I wanted. That is for sure.