JOKER: THE MOVIE produced by Martin Scorsese (TBD) 1 1

[Aweandlorder]

Wasn’t my thing. I went to see it for Phoenix and got exactly what I expected. Not getting the comparison to taxi driver, or any other Scorsese movie for that matter. I liked the cinematography and a couple (no more) of the scenes there; 1 when joker made his first kill, 2 when he made his third kill (does that make me a violent person?)

I think the movie needed either more of a steady pace to compare to Scorsese or stronger lines/dialogs. As it was, it felt like it was CONSTANTLY getting somewhere but never did. It didn’t go deep enough for me. 

I agree with what people said here that it’s a shame it was only an origin story, it would have been brilliant if there were more action scenes, definitely in the vein of taxi driver’s Action finale. Realistic looking ones taken in interesting angles.

Also there needed to be a hero/villain element which never really happened with this movie. It was Arthur with a bunch of supporting characters (Thomas Wayne, Murray Franklin, the two cops...), either one of those should have been expanded and built up in The Joker, as the relationship between him and them never really developed intensely enough.

by next year this movie will be a flash in the pan, and in the next few years I doubt people will even remember that there was a movie based on a strong DC comic book character which added nothing to its cinematic universe. 
 

A total miss (and a very unfortunate one at that)

[Bosco685]

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

8 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

...I think the movie needed either more of a steady pace to compare to Scorsese or stronger lines/dialogs. As it was, it felt like it was CONSTANTLY getting somewhere but never did. It didn’t go deep enough for me.
I agree with what people said here that it’s a shame it was only an origin story, it would have been brilliant if there were more action scenes, definitely in the vein of taxi driver’s Action finale. Realistic looking ones taken in interesting angles.

Also there needed to be a hero/villain element which never really happened with this movie. It was Arthur with a bunch of supporting characters (Thomas Wayne, Murray Franklin, the two cops...), either one of those should have been expanded and built up in The Joker, as the relationship between him and them never really developed intensely enough...

Spoiler

I agree that it didn't go deep/dark enough. I kept feeling like, "oh he's really going to start doing some Joker now", but there were only a couple of payoffs. I know it's an origin story, but it's an origin that didn't need that much fleshing-out.

A little less dancing, some more action, and a clear designation that he's a villain would have gone a long way IMO.

I still "enjoyed" it a lot, though.

 

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

Quote

Moderate spoiler warning for those who have not seen Joker…

Joker opened with $96 million in its Fri-Sun domestic launch, and around $237 million worldwide. Yes, that’s a bigger Fri-Sun debut than Justice League ($93.8 million in 2017), which is the kind of cosmic irony that the Clown Prince of Crime would find hilarious. The latter was a PG-13, $300 million-budgeted superhero ensemble flick designed to launch sequels and spin-offs. The former was an R-rated, $60 million, grimdark character play that will allegedly spawn zero sequels no matter how much it earns over the next month or so. Considering how much hassle Warner Bros. went through to make Justice League lighter, peppier, funnier and more conventional compared to Batman v Superman, the irony must be vexing.

 

I wouldn’t argue that Joker was a risk, since it was a $60 million flick from a popular brand (DC Films) starring the most popular fictional villain in modern history. Its biggest gamble was acting as a glorified pilot for a franchise that may never be. Maybe Todd Phillips and friends are bluffing when they say that Joker is a one-and-done affair, or that Joaquin Phoenix’s title baddie will never face off with Robert Pattinson’s Batman. Beyond those promises, Joker plays like an origin story reboot, specifically the “bad” kind that makes you wait for the sequel for the stuff you came to see.

 

Joker is an origin story for the Joker with barely any Joker in it. There are generally two kinds of character-specific franchise-starters or brand reboots. You have the origin story flick that offers both a full-fledged origin story and plenty of screen time with the key hero doing the thing audiences came to see. Then you have the glorified TV pilot as feature film, which spends most of its running time setting up the status quo with the promise that next time, in a sequel that will “surely” happen, audiences will get to see what they thought they were getting the first time around.

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Bosco685

[fantastic_four]

17 minutes ago, Oddball said:

Actually DC is best when they are not trying to make a connected cinematic universe.

Broaden that out to EVERY studio is better off not trying to make a connected cinematic universe for any property without the equivalent of an Editor-In-Chief who is knowledgeable about the property to make it all consistently work.  For Marvel that's Feige, but DC doesn't have that guy yet.  Lucas filled that role for Star Wars for a while, although I really wish he wouldn't have actually written and directed the prequels but instead fill the same overseer role that Feige fills like he did for Empire and Return of the Jedi.  For Harry Potter that guy was David Heyman.  It's not the fact that the better DC films are standalones, it's that they lucked out and got a good writer/director for particular random films.  Every studio does that from time to time.

If you've heard of the Auteur theory of filmmaking the same applies to producing an entire universe of films--you need one qualified person keeping them all unified and true to their strengths.  DC has nobody like that.  Geoff Johns was the guy I hoped would fill that role, but it didn't last long for whatever reason.  Until they get that guy you're right, they're better off not trying to create a universe and just taking their chances film by film.

Edited October 7, 2019 by fantastic_four

[theCapraAegagrus]

DC had Zack Snyder. Then WB blew it.

[Bosco685]

Quote

With a massive $96 million domestic bow and an equally impressive $140 million international haul, Warner Bros.’ critically acclaimed villain origin film Joker has shattered records for October releases in North America and abroad. These figures mean Joker is certain to top $500 million worldwide, barring any unforeseen circumstances causing a big abnormal drop in global attendance, and could rise to $600+ million.

 

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

The news outlet stories so far to throw Joker off:

• Encourages incels to commit violence towards 'normal - Now seen as BS since people have seen this film for themselves
• Will lead to attacks at the movie theaters - Didn't happen which disappointed news sites
• There were disruptions at theaters due to people smoking - News articles today as a 'SEE? WE TOLD YOU' attempt
• Gary Glitter song used in film so he gets residuals as an identified child porn collector  - Revisiting this one as the BIG trouble point

Waiting for 'MAN FARTS DURING JOKER SCREENING' articles.

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

...Waiting for 'MAN FARTS DURING JOKER SCREENING' articles.

My bad.

[Bosco685]

THR is really pushing the hate narrative hard with Joker.

[Bosco685]

On 9/29/2019 at 8:19 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Keep in mind - I agree with you here, and not Bosco, that this film has limited box office potential.

On 10/2/2019 at 9:06 PM, Jaydogrules said:

So again, I still ask for someone, anyone, to point out this film's demographic path to "blockbuster" status ( before ) it actually does of course, because armchair quarterbacking gets you know brownie points around here ).

-J.

On 10/3/2019 at 12:31 AM, paperheart said:

RT 73, w/ top critic score of 53; Metacritic at 62.  This may have been the most overhyped thing to come out of Venice since the gondola.

You all know best. We are all here to learn from the haters masters. 

[paperheart]

13 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

You all know best. We are all here to learn from the haters masters. 

need to update those scores: Metacritic 58, RT 68 "certified fresh" -

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, paperheart said:

need to update those scores: Metacritic 58, RT 68 "certified fresh" -

WB can't hear you over the machines.

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

You all know best. We are all here to learn from the haters masters. 

Sorry bud, but Monday morning quarterbacking isn't allowed from guys who never went on the record with their own predictions.  

I guess you're also forgetting WB's own earlier projections (before the fake critical hype and even faker manufactured "controversies" that helped push this movie opening up against no other wide release competition even further):

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ign.com/articles/2019/09/13/joker-projected-to-beat-venoms-opening-weekend-box-office-record%3famp=1

Gosh if they can't get it right, I guess I definitely shouldn't expect much from Luiz on twitter and the gushing fanboys over at Forbes (although I notice Mendelson is remaining uncharacteristically restrained on this one so far).

Maybe now you see that critics don't matter this day and age? Despite your breathless Rotten Tomatoes updates ?  Yes, a 68% "certified fresh" is pretty ridiculous on its face.  Another black eye for RT.  But oh look, I was exactly right about where this film's RT score would settle in at.  😉

Still waiting for you to update that production budget for Aquaman too.  

Congratulations to Joker for breaking even in week one.

Now taking wagers on how massive of a drop it will take in week 2 now that the hype is gone and the fanboys have all rushed the theaters (and another wide release or two actually opening up against it). 

-J.

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Jaydogrules

[Bosco685]

15 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Congratulations to Joker for breaking even in week one.

 

-J.

 

If anything, you are consistently swinging. Now if only it was at an actual ball.

[DiamondCityComics]

[Jaydogrules]

41 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

If anything, you are consistently swinging. Now if only it was at an actual ball.

Come to think of it... you're also a little light on the Joker budget too. 

-J.

[Bosco685]

4 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Come to think of it... you're also a little light on the Joker budget too. 

-J.

You should go back and check your spreadsheets. Especially that Homecoming one, Babe Ruth.