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JOKER: THE MOVIE produced by Martin Scorsese (TBD)
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1,790 posts in this topic

18 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

IIRC the 2nd upcoming Joker movie stars Jared Leto, and his Joker is the worst live-action performance ever.

You know, if they'd done away with all of the Juggalo tats and grill and all of that , I don't know that I'd really have a big problem with that take on the Joker. But the movie was garbage anyway, so I didn't have much invested in it.

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12 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

One thing I will note this Joker movie will most likely beat both Aquaman and Shazam at the box office. The Joker is a very popular character with the modern crowd like Deadpool. I would expect at least two movies with Joaquin Phoenix.

I tend to think that Joker is DC's second most popular property, behind Batman himself. I know the thinking is usually Bats, Supes, WW, but these days I'd tend to think it's Bats, Joker, WW, maybe Harley Quinn, THEN Superman, simply from a public awareness and merchandising sales standpoint. Could be wrong though, I know that S-Shield is still beloved around the world. But yeah, I'd tend to agree that a well-made Joker movie would be a box office juggernaut. The Dark Knight didn't become one of the biggest movies of all time just because of Christian Bale's McGuff the Crime Dog impersonation. 

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27 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

You know, if they'd done away with all of the Juggalo tats and grill and all of that , I don't know that I'd really have a big problem with that take on the Joker. But the movie was garbage anyway, so I didn't have much invested in it.

The look was only half of it, though. He was smelling guys, barking at guys, telling guys to hit on Harley. He wasn't a Joker. He was a psychopath who has no business pretending he's a Joker.

The people I know who don't want to hate on it claim, "I didn't get to see enough of his Joker to judge him either way". Yes, yes you did. I didn't/don't want to see another second his his garbage character.

Also, Harley Quinn is nowhere at the top of DC's recognizable character list. Everyone knows who Batman and Superman are. Most people know who Wonder Woman and The Joker are. People 30+ years old very often don't know who or what Harley Quinn is.

Edited by TwoPiece
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1 hour ago, F For Fake said:

I tend to think that Joker is DC's second most popular property, behind Batman himself. I know the thinking is usually Bats, Supes, WW, but these days I'd tend to think it's Bats, Joker, WW, maybe Harley Quinn, THEN Superman, simply from a public awareness and merchandising sales standpoint. Could be wrong though, I know that S-Shield is still beloved around the world. But yeah, I'd tend to agree that a well-made Joker movie would be a box office juggernaut. The Dark Knight didn't become one of the biggest movies of all time just because of Christian Bale's McGuff the Crime Dog impersonation. 

I think you are correct. I think it's because they haven't been able to handle the S franchise as well as the B franchise (of which joker is a part).

I think it is very well possible that this current movie going audience just isn't going to accept a Superman movie, but maybe a decade from now, a well-made one might do well.

So, messing it up now is a bad move (Think timing of WW?). Trying to just make everything dark and dreary simply because that was one aspect of a series of Batman films that worked was lazy. Re-hashing and re-trying formula after formula is ruining it for people.

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30 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

Trying to just make everything dark and dreary simply because that was one aspect of a series of Batman films that worked was lazy.

Re-hashing and re-trying formula after formula is ruining it for people.

That wasn't what they tried to do. Nolan had a signature fingerprint in Man of Steel, but Zack Snyder wanted to create a modern Superman origin story, with realistic interpretations and consequences (same for BvS and Justice League). It worked/works for a lot of people.

I completely agree that trying formula-after-formula is ruining not only the franchise(s), but ruining the characters for audiences. WB seemingly has no interest in fan service. They're more interested in trying to get closer and closer to Marvel's blueprint. The cinematic world of comics needs some serious stories to go along with all of the action-comedies that Marvel rolls out 4 times a year. It doesn't look like that's going to continue, which is a sad story.

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7 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

That wasn't what they tried to do.

There is no doubt they tried to make that film have a dark and dreary feel to it. From the costumes (even his outfit is darker), lighting, cinematography, filtering and so on, it was intentionally made that way. They even wanted Del Toro to direct for God's sake. AND, of course in BvS its extremely dark the whole movie and he freaking dies at the end. So, they have gone the route of trying to make Superman dark like Batman due to the success of that franchise.

As discussed, I think the Batman franchise has thrived based on how it has been portrayed in numerous channels (movies, comics, tv, video games) and they just haven't hit the right formula for Superman. I think they need to go back to his roots and abandon trying to copy aspects of Batman. Like I said, maybe even wait a bit longer. I grew up in the Christopher Reeve days and those are the ones I remember as being good (at least 1 and 2).

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16 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

There is no doubt they tried to make that film have a dark and dreary feel to it. From the costumes (even his outfit is darker), lighting, cinematography, filtering and so on, it was intentionally made that way. They even wanted Del Toro to direct for God's sake. AND, of course in BvS its extremely dark the whole movie and he freaking dies at the end. So, they have gone the route of trying to make Superman dark like Batman due to the success of that franchise.

As discussed, I think the Batman franchise has thrived based on how it has been portrayed in numerous channels (movies, comics, tv, video games) and they just haven't hit the right formula for Superman. I think they need to go back to his roots and abandon trying to copy aspects of Batman. Like I said, maybe even wait a bit longer. I grew up in the Christopher Reeve days and those are the ones I remember as being good (at least 1 and 2).

I'm not disagreeing that they're "dark", but they were dark for reasons other than trying to "copy" The Dark Knight trilogy. That was my point of contention. I can't comment on Man of Steel pre-production (i.e. your Del Toro comment). I wasn't interested in all of the pre-release information about movies until late-2014 (Age of Ultron stuff).

I really wish WB would sell the DC properties. Their meddling in BvS and Justice League just doesn't give me any faith in their ability to allow DC Worlds directors creative control and freedom. Fox did the same thing to that horrible Fantastic Four movie. Didn't Feige force himself up the ladder after Disney bought MS, because the committee was forcing too many restrictions and guidelines?

I guess this is all kinda off-topic.

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7 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

Also, Harley Quinn is nowhere at the top of DC's recognizable character list. Everyone knows who Batman and Superman are. Most people know who Wonder Woman and The Joker are. People 30+ years old very often don't know who or what Harley Quinn is.

Well, agree to disagree. She hasn't reached the saturation of the big three, but from a merchandising standpoint, I'm pretty confident she'd be in their top 5. It would be interesting to see some numbers on it, but I'm not sure if they release that sort of information in a character breakdown. 

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8 hours ago, F For Fake said:

I tend to think that Joker is DC's second most popular property, behind Batman himself. I know the thinking is usually Bats, Supes, WW, but these days I'd tend to think it's Bats, Joker, WW, maybe Harley Quinn, THEN Superman, simply from a public awareness and merchandising sales standpoint. Could be wrong though, I know that S-Shield is still beloved around the world. But yeah, I'd tend to agree that a well-made Joker movie would be a box office juggernaut. The Dark Knight didn't become one of the biggest movies of all time just because of Christian Bale's McGuff the Crime Dog impersonation. 

100 percent agree.

With modern audiences I would rank them.

1. Batman(big video game star)

2. Joker( cult character)

3. Wonder Woman (DC`s best modern DCU movie)

4. Supermam

5 Flash/Arrow( hit TV shows)

remember this is my modern audience list.

:foryou:

 

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You guys are right. From a pure property name perspective, Superman is probably #1, but from a modern audience/market, you guys hit it right. For example, if I ask my grandfather these names, he would know Superman better than any of the others (he doesn't see any of the movies or care about any of the movies).

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And from a modern audience, Harley is up there towards the top (maybe top 5? def top 10 for DC) for current marketable characters for DC.

I am sure a large percentage of people who go see these movies and are buying the products know who she is. Not above Batman, Joker, WW and Superman, but she is definitely up there near the top of the current popular characters. I can't think of another DC character that she would beat out as far as marketability right now.

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14 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Well, agree to disagree. She hasn't reached the saturation of the big three, but from a merchandising standpoint, I'm pretty confident she'd be in their top 5. It would be interesting to see some numbers on it, but I'm not sure if they release that sort of information in a character breakdown. 

Harley Quinn is a character who didn't appear in comics until the 1990's... How can you disagree that most people over 30 don't know who she is? Walk around any town in the world. Show them a picture of Superman, Batman, and Harley Quinn. If they don't know who the former 2 are, then, they probably live under a rock. The only reason people my dad's age know who she is, is because of the awful Suicide Squad movie. They never read a comic with her or saw the animated series'.

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From a modern audience standpoint, she's Top 10 for sure. I have friends my age who are obsessed with her. From a worldwide recognition standpoint, though, she definitely falls behind Wonder Woman, The Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Zod, The Joker, and probably Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Cyborg, and Martian Manhunter.

If you didn't read comics or see the animated series, you didn't really know who HQ is prior to Suicide Squad. Iconic villains like Zod and The Joker have been in multiple movies. Luthor, too. It seems, to me at least, a lot of regular people know who Brainiac is.

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3 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

From a modern audience standpoint, she's Top 10 for sure. I have friends my age who are obsessed with her. From a worldwide recognition standpoint, though, she definitely falls behind Wonder Woman, The Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Zod, The Joker, and probably Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Cyborg, and Martian Manhunter.

If you didn't read comics or see the animated series, you didn't really know who HQ is prior to Suicide Squad. Iconic villains like Zod and The Joker have been in multiple movies. Luthor, too. It seems, to me at least, a lot of regular people know who Brainiac is.

It depends on the demographic. If you look at females (and males) in their teens to early 30s, they all know who HQ is. That is the demographic that drove the box office for SS, and will do the same for BoP, SS2, and any other Harley led/co-led film. 

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11 minutes ago, kimik said:

It depends on the demographic. If you look at females (and males) in their teens to early 30s, they all know who HQ is. That is the demographic that drove the box office for SS, and will do the same for BoP, SS2, and any other Harley led/co-led film. 

Completely agree.

Recasting The Joker would go a long way for the dynamic of her character. Leto sucks.

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Joaquin Phoenix Breaks Down in Tears in New Joker Set Video.

http://www.superherohype.com/movies/422405-joaquin-phoenix-breaks-down-in-tears-in-the-new-joker-set-video#/slide/1

A new set video from the upcoming Joker movie has arrived online featuring Golden Globe winner Joaquin Phoenix as the titular villain in a normal clown makeup. The video reveals Arthur Fleck breaking down in tears inside a phone booth. Check out the video below (via CBR).

 

 

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Yes, stop looking at stuff before the trailers.  I was dreading The Dark Knight prior to hearing the early buzz on how awesome Ledger was in it.  Batman Begins was already my favorite Batman film by then so I had hope, but I really loved Nicholson as Joker and doubted Ledger could ever surpass him prior to that early buzz about nine months before the movie came out and before Ledger died.  I've got similar bad expectations this time, too, but I'm pushing it back out of my mind pending a trailer or some solid industry feedback.

Even a trailer probably isn't enough.  I loved the first Suicide Squad trailer with Leto in it, but that turned out as a bust anyway.

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