Hulk 181 Getting out of my range... 3 3

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Eventually low grade CGC 2.0 will hit a grand in a few years. I see both IH181 and NM 98 having strong bull runs like AF#15 from 2007 to now.

 

I agree with this.  I think prices on even the most raggedy copies of 181 will see big gains before people start defaulting to 180 at all.  I don't think anybody who targets keys and isn't a completionist would be "really" happy owning a 180 and not a 181, whereas I think most people who have a 181 would be perfectly fine never owning a 180.

-J.

[Oat Willy1]

I just sold an 8.5 181 green label missing page 10 for just under 1K. It was signed by Len Wein who just passed away though which may have helped

[story cover & art by...]

4 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

I agree with this.  I think prices on even the most raggedy copies of 181 will see big gains before people start defaulting to 180 at all.  I don't think anybody who targets keys and isn't a completionist would be "really" happy owning a 180 and not a 181, whereas I think most people who have a 181 would be perfectly fine never owning a 180.

-J.

Hey Jay, Snikt!1988

Same case with me... I have my 181, I have a SS 180... mid grade... but went for GSX1... some things I've noticed... the dealers I've approached haven't stocked up on 180s... I was searching for a 9.8 for awhile... There's a trickle down effect as everyone has stated... With the Mini and 1988 series... I'd have a 180 right now but much like other collectors I've been picking up other books beforehand... 

Edited October 4, 2017 by story cover & art by...

[story cover & art by...]

A couple mistakes I've made last year... I shot a offer on a PGX 9.8 181 and passed... that book landed near 10k... Did anyone else miss a chance at that 9.6 green label missing a value stamp... I think those are heating up... and are alternatives... now low grade copies are fetching 1k man... 

[Jaydogrules]

13 minutes ago, story cover & art by... said:

Hey Jay, Snikt!1988

Same case with me... I have my 181, I have a SS 180... mid grade... but went for GSX1... some things I've noticed... the dealers I've approached haven't stocked up on 180s... I was searching for a 9.8 for awhile... There's a trickle down effect as everyone has stated... With the Mini and 1988 series... I'd have a 180 right now but much like other collectors I've been picking up other books beforehand... 

Hey man , sorry to see your old account to make the change over.  

Yes I remember when you got your 9.8, 181.  That's a $20k book now, well done! 

-J.

[story cover & art by...]

4 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Hey man , sorry to see your old account to make the change over.  

Yes I remember when you got your 9.8, 181.  That's a $20k book now, well done! 

-J.

At the time that book had been on the boards and eBay 6 months... I was lucky I flipped a few 181s at the time got a sweet deal all around... People where saying it would never reach that level again... I chickened out on the PGX copy... I could of landed it for the price of a 9.6...

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by story cover & art by...

[1950's war comics]

On 10/3/2017 at 4:55 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I hope it keeps going  when 180 gets out of most people's price range then if 181 keeps going ....  my point is time will tell if "demand" can carry both 180 and 181? that will be interesting and if you add 182 or GSXM 1 on top of that.... there just seems to be too many copies and issues surrounding that "could" be considered, which will also damper presumably. 

Good analysis, IH #181 is the 2nd most graded comic with over 7,000 CGC graded already, 2nd behind BA #12 with over 12,000 graded copies

[story cover & art by...]

The reasons why this book continues to defy odds aren't production run... or number of copies graded... I've been actively watching this book from the dawn of eBay... back when I was in my twenties and couldn't afford a copy...  people have been saying the same thing then... and perhaps before I was collecting... it's my number one search on eBay... and what I've noticed is... clean high grade copies are drying up... I only ever see low grade copies pop up when I search newly listed... people have multiple copies... most people want to hold onto the wise cracking little guy... 3 instances I've flipped the book... I bought two copies 5 years back $800 each... the first one I sold locally graded out 8.5 for 1500 cash... we went to a local comic store bc the buyer never bought a graded copy to verify the slab was authentic... the employees asked how much you buying it for... and scoffed at us... that book is so common etc etc... second copy graded 9.0 I sold for just under 3k and I also sold a 5.5 for $950... I put that money towards my 9.8 bc one if I'm going to spend x amount of money might as well be for something I love and will keep... here I am 3 years later happy 100%... just am dumbfounded I can't snag a 8.5 for what it was going for 5 years ago... last year 6.5s where in the 1200 range today... what you can get are 5.5s and green label copies...

Edited October 4, 2017 by story cover & art by...

[DTM700]

A 9.0 OW/W just went for $3,555 on CLink tonight  Did I miss something? I thought 181 at 9.0 was still a 3k - 3.3k book. 

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FDEFAULT.ASP%3FFocused%3D1%26x%3D20%26y%3D10%26pg%3D143%23Item_1200703&id=1200703&itemType=0

[alexgross.com]

1 hour ago, DTM700 said:

A 9.0 OW/W just went for $3,555 on CLink tonight  Did I miss something? I thought 181 at 9.0 was still a 3k - 3.3k book. 

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FDEFAULT.ASP%3FFocused%3D1%26x%3D20%26y%3D10%26pg%3D143%23Item_1200703&id=1200703&itemType=0

that does seem like a price only obtained on the WHITE PAGES copies i've seen this year. things are pointing up yet again for this book. 

[DarkKnightReturns]

5 hours ago, 1950's war comics said:

Good analysis, IH #181 is the 2nd most graded comic with over 7,000 CGC graded already, 2nd behind BA #12 with over 12,000 graded copies

Batman Adventures 12? over 12,000 graded...whoa

Where do you find the #'s on most graded comics?

[1950's war comics]

I can't remember the name of the web page, someone linked the top ten slabs on these boards a few days ago...

you can also peruse the CGC census numbers looking up popular books...

[1950's war comics]

@DarkKnightReturns  I just checked the CGC census and while it had IH #181 as around 7500 graded copies it only showed BA 12 as 3500 graded copies so far ....so i guess that link that is floating around here could be wrong maybe

[Quicksilver Signs]

On 8/25/2017 at 2:43 AM, story cover & art by... said:

Another IH181 post...

Been watching them on eBay forever... first time I got to say even low grade copies getting out of reach... also nice copies getting scarce...

What's preventing you from buying one? Squirrel away 100 bucks a month, in 6 months you can get a low grade one, a year you can have a nicer one. There's over 60 on eBay right now, a lot are over priced but there are 100's for sale at cons and such. I've found 3 in the wild in the past couple years. It can't be compared to an AF15 price-wise or scarcity. 

[story cover & art by...]

3 hours ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

What's preventing you from buying one? Squirrel away 100 bucks a month, in 6 months you can get a low grade one, a year you can have a nicer one. There's over 60 on eBay right now, a lot are over priced but there are 100's for sale at cons and such. I've found 3 in the wild in the past couple years. It can't be compared to an AF15 price-wise or scarcity. 

I have one already a 9.8... looking for a mid grade copy to keep under my pillow... not going to spend 1200 for a 5.5... 

[Lucky Baru]

13 hours ago, Quicksilver Signs said:

What's preventing you from buying one? Squirrel away 100 bucks a month, in 6 months you can get a low grade one, a year you can have a nicer one. There's over 60 on eBay right now, a lot are over priced but there are 100's for sale at cons and such. I've found 3 in the wild in the past couple years. It can't be compared to an AF15 price-wise or scarcity. 

Good advice!

[Randall Ries]

Here is an interesting caveat from a seller on ebay. Take it with a grain of salt. Makes some sense to me:

HULK 181 IS ONE OF THE MOST RE SUBMITTED BOOKS FOR THIRD PARTY ENCAPSULATION ACROSS THE INDUSTRY. 

 

Submitter's attempt to turn their 9.2 books into 9.4's, 9.4's into 9.6's, etc. This has been occurring in greater and greater numbers. For Hulk 181, re-submissions have outnumbered actual new book submissions for some time now.  The drive behind this is clear since the higher the grade, the more valuable the book. But its not just that......

 

There have been well documented grading standard disagreements across the genre' dating all the way back to the first third party grading services opening their doors. Some of these disagreements have led to the creation of competing third party grading companies, as well as top graders jumping ship to move to other grading houses.

 

Another caveat and reminder is that third party grading service's (CCBS, CGC, PGX, ETC) census numbers reflect only gross submission numbers. It does not reflect the actual net existing population of the books at grade since re submitter's rarely self identify the prior registration and grade of the book. You can see this very disclaimer posted on the CGC website as a warning not to rely on census numbers for assumptions of rarity,

 

Therefore, and possibly in even greater numbers, the re-submission process is also occurring across the different third party grading houses due to the very same reasons stated above.

So how many Hulk 181 books 9.4 and above are there actually in existence?

 

While Hulk 181 in 9.2 to 9.8 grade may not be a scarce book, the actual numbers of existing books in those grades may be fractional to the totals the census' depict. Do you really think there are hundreds and hundreds of 9.2 to 9.9 Hulk 181's in existence?  Not a chance.... and here is the very simple reasoning why.....

First, 1974 was one of the worst years for selling any comic book, regardless of title.  You can see these reports anywhere on the internet.  The early 70's nearly put some publishers out of business.  That and, the rising prices of these books chased children from buying them (.12 cents to 25 cents in just a few years).

 

THE INCREDIBLE HULK SERIES was never Marvel's most popular book.  So the truth is Hulk 181's could not have been high grade cherry picked off the news stands (yes people...this is back when these books were on wire racks in candy stores). Much less cherry picked in large numbers. Then put away safely in larger numbers? And all this when the Hulk book was not super popular to begin with, and before anyone knew or cared who Wolverine was? This is why its not possible.

Also, if you look at the CGC submission numbers for the Hulk 180 book, you see the numbers are fractional to the 181 census number....  Why would this be?  The 180 book is valuable in high grade as well and is certainly being re-submitted as well......  As for the news stand numbers in 1974, why would anyone have bought more 181's vs 180's? In fact, as the seasons get closer to winter, fewer books tended to be sold.  So if anything, there should be more 180's vs 181's in existence.  There is no clear reason why CGC census numbers for the 1980 are so much less than the 181, other than the value of the book, and the greater amount of re-submissions for the 181 vs the 180.....  Everybody wants that next 9.9 181....

What is also possible is that many collectors whom thought they themselves were pretty good graders, are arguably surprised and disappointed in what their book grades when it comes back from a third party grader.  And with someone having paid $150k for a 9.9 Hulk 181, if you owned a 9.8, would you try and re-submit it?  

 

What if on average, every new owner of a 9.2 or higher grade Hulk 181 re- submitted it to any of the 3rd Party Graders? What would the census look like then?

 

Many industry professionals could easily argue a 9.9 from a 9.8. The only aspects in consideration at those grades are centering, 1 bindery defect, and subjective color/gloss anyways.  How many times would you re-submit a 9.8 if you thought you could possibly land another $150k 9.9? And how many different Third Party grading companies would you try before you gave up trying for that 9.9 grade?  You see my point.

 

The census on this book is completely and majorly over inflated. I believe the real CGC census number for the 181 are actually at or below the census numbers for the 180 and the 182 because those numbers also contain re-submissions within them.

Now consider the fact that over inflated or not, the book continues to rise in price?   That's because the reality is while you can find a 9.2-9.8 for sale most of the time, there are still more shoppers than there are sellers regardless of the census # being crazy.

[JollyComics]

On 9/21/2017 at 12:18 AM, oakman29 said:

 

This is the best story I ever heard. 

[alexgross.com]

4 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Also, if you look at the CGC submission numbers for the Hulk 180 book, you see the numbers are fractional to the 181 census number....  Why would this be?  The 180 book is valuable in high grade as well and is certainly being re-submitted as well......  As for the news stand numbers in 1974, why would anyone have bought more 181's vs 180's? In fact, as the seasons get closer to winter, fewer books tended to be sold.  So if anything, there should be more 180's vs 181's in existence.  There is no clear reason why CGC census numbers for the 1980 are so much less than the 181, other than the value of the book, and the greater amount of re-submissions for the 181 vs the 180.....  Everybody wants that next 9.9 181....

some interesting points in here, but this paragraph is just silly. people submit 1st appearances of characters at a much higher rate than other books, and as long as CGC has been operating, their label has stated that 181 is the 1st full appearance of wolvie. duh. 

[drotto]

Was just looking at GPA's for my 7.5 and just had two sales over $2000. Honestly I am surprised. Are we seeing another price spike coming.