Are the Boomers cashing out? 6 6

[lou_fine]

3 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

You further LIMITING the SA/GA markets as the ONLY prosperous markets in our hobby is, again, very narrow sighted  

Maybe, just maybe, there a possibility that they are BOTH doing well? 

Never said that it was only the SA and GA markets that are doing well.

Will definitely agree with your last statement though, especially in the sense that certain sectors within all of the various comic book ages are performing exceedingly well in today's marketplace. 

[1950's war comics]

Never understood paying big bucks for any modern comic anymore than i can understand why coin collectors are paying big bucks for a 2017 commemorative coin in high grade

in both cases they are manufactured collectibles and there is really no such thing other than "high grade" there will never be a mid-grade,.. or any other grade than high..

in both instances for the same price one can get a vintage mid grade key 70 to 200 year old collectible that has stood the test of time....

[Mayor006]

 

Lots of things I take away from this thread already....

One of these days that "modern" comic book, printed back in the 80's is going to be well over a 50, 60, 70 years old.  Yes, true atomic, golden, silver and copper will be even older, but still time marches on and things happen.  Drinks are spilled, fires burn, buildings collapse, things are lost.  Things become rarer across the board. Not necessarily more valuable, just rarer.  Those modern Zenescope covers limited to 250 copies or less? Probably not worth much, but will be pretty darn scarce in less than 50 years!  So realize what it is you are collecting for....is it scarcity, your enjoyment, or something like popularity?

Speaking of popularity, with the way technology works "today" it is very easy to influence people as to what should be popular.  How? Well, let's start a forum on a board where we conserve books and tell people what we think is hot for instance.  Let's start groups on social sites and share stories about the next big movie coming out and all the books it was based off of.  Stuff like this didn't exist less than 20 years ago and will continue to change as the generations do.  Word of mouth, zines, newspapers, and magazines were the way of getting word out then.  Now it is word of mouth, text, email, blogging, the internet, podcasts, and thankfully a few of the prior generation's mediums made it as well.  Each generation will have different influences that set what is popular for them.

I enjoy reading these discussions, especially on how everyone feels the market is performing.  I've seen prices increase in GA for sure and in some niche areas of what I would consider the modern market, i.e. the "movie" and "celebrity" markets for sure.  That last one hasn't been discussed much, but with the online market of Celebrity Authentics and SS Facilitators I think its an interesting market that wasn't even feasible 20 years ago.

I feel like a lot of people around my age (46) are thinking the way I am from the comments, that I want to focus my collection.  I went to a small show in Atlanta yesterday and spent two hours surrounded by a LOT of people diving in boxes.  Some incredible books on the wall and I was either just not feeling it or, what I'm afraid of, I'm just not interested in buying them anymore.  I'm happy to see them, but I don't feel they need to be mine.  I bought one book to complete a set that I will be listing on Ebay.  

Lastly, these are all just my opinions.  These and $5 might still get you a happy meal at McDonald's so take them for what they are worth.

 

[FN-2199]

The Boomers will cash out eventually, you know: death & taxes...

When will the International collectors buy in (en masse)?

There is a hunger for Americana overseas but many international customers are priced out because of the cost of shipping which may be many times the price of books domestically. When technology levels the field competition for comics and other collectibles will increase due to money flowing from customers in Australia, South America, Africa, Asia, and Europe. I'm bullish. I believe technology will further open up collecting competition to international markets. After all The World is Flat. 

[1Cool]

6 minutes ago, FN-2199 said:

The Boomers will cash out eventually, you know: death & taxes...

When will the International collectors buy in (en masse)?

There is a hunger for Americana overseas but many international customers are priced out because of the cost of shipping which may be many times the price of books domestically. When technology levels the field competition for comics and other collectibles will increase due to money flowing from customers in Australia, South America, Africa, Asia, and Europe. I'm bullish. I believe technology will further open up collecting competition to international markets. After all The World is Flat. 

Which International markets are ripe for US comic collectibles?  Are you saying shipping prices are due to drop?  I could be wrong but I think it's highly unlikely foreign markets will get an appetite for random US comic books.  Keys may be seen as safe places to invest money like gold coins which may bring in some foreign buyers but if you think a bunch of customers for Alpha Flight 1 are going to pop up in Africa and Asia then I believe you are incorrect.

[Martin Sinescu]

Asian and Middle Eastern collectors are definitely hungry for comics, video games, etc. (Western pop culture in general) and I've seen people drop crazy money on shipping to get some of these items, but, yeah, it's going to take a big change in shipping, not technology (the internet has already leveled the access), to open those markets up to more than the semi-elite (many of the guys I know are youngish, but have good jobs in good fields, so can afford the price to get what they want). How is matter transportation coming along?

Edited March 19, 2018 by Martin Sinescu

[Aweandlorder]

7 hours ago, Mayor006 said:

 

Lots of things I take away from this thread already....

One of these days that "modern" comic book, printed back in the 80's is going to be well over a 50, 60, 70 years old.  Yes, true atomic, golden, silver and copper will be even older, but still time marches on and things happen.  Drinks are spilled, fires burn, buildings collapse, things are lost.  Things become rarer across the board. Not necessarily more valuable, just rarer.  Those modern Zenescope covers limited to 250 copies or less? Probably not worth much, but will be pretty darn scarce in less than 50 years!  So realize what it is you are collecting for....is it scarcity, your enjoyment, or something like popularity?

Speaking of popularity, with the way technology works "today" it is very easy to influence people as to what should be popular.  How? Well, let's start a forum on a board where we conserve books and tell people what we think is hot for instance.  Let's start groups on social sites and share stories about the next big movie coming out and all the books it was based off of.  Stuff like this didn't exist less than 20 years ago and will continue to change as the generations do.  Word of mouth, zines, newspapers, and magazines were the way of getting word out then.  Now it is word of mouth, text, email, blogging, the internet, podcasts, and thankfully a few of the prior generation's mediums made it as well.  Each generation will have different influences that set what is popular for them.

I enjoy reading these discussions, especially on how everyone feels the market is performing.  I've seen prices increase in GA for sure and in some niche areas of what I would consider the modern market, i.e. the "movie" and "celebrity" markets for sure.  That last one hasn't been discussed much, but with the online market of Celebrity Authentics and SS Facilitators I think its an interesting market that wasn't even feasible 20 years ago.

I feel like a lot of people around my age (46) are thinking the way I am from the comments, that I want to focus my collection.  I went to a small show in Atlanta yesterday and spent two hours surrounded by a LOT of people diving in boxes.  Some incredible books on the wall and I was either just not feeling it or, what I'm afraid of, I'm just not interested in buying them anymore.  I'm happy to see them, but I don't feel they need to be mine.  I bought one book to complete a set that I will be listing on Ebay.  

Lastly, these are all just my opinions.  These and $5 might still get you a happy meal at McDonald's so take them for what they are worth.

 

Most "modern" collectors would cave to trends from the various sources you mentioned, its convenient to think that the evil-doers are the bloggers/IGers/FBers. but this is not new, in the 90s it was Wizard, and even before that you had savvy dealers (hello chuck R) who pumped the product wildly. I fell victim to many of Chuck's rantings back in the 80s and went full on with indie B&W, adult & underground stuff (Quadrant, Jaberwocky, etc), even HC/TPB stuff which was once very fashionable. All of it has by now long cooled off. Not to say that Chuck was lying when he said that this stuff is gonna be HTF. It was. But fast forward to some 20-30 years later and theres absolutely zero demand for it

[comicjack]

We all cash out or check out at some point,up to one's self or it is done by the kin folk left behind 

Edited March 19, 2018 by comicjack

[OrangeCrush]

15 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

Most "modern" collectors would cave to trends from the various sources you mentioned, its convenient to think that the evil-doers are the bloggers/IGers/FBers. but this is not new, in the 90s it was Wizard, and even before that you had savvy dealers (hello chuck R) who pumped the product wildly. I fell victim to many of Chuck's rantings back in the 80s and went full on with indie B&W, adult & underground stuff (Quadrant, Jaberwocky, etc), even HC/TPB stuff which was once very fashionable. All of it has by now long cooled off. Not to say that Chuck was lying when he said that this stuff is gonna be HTF. It was. But fast forward to some 20-30 years later and theres absolutely zero demand for it

Great post. I just read an article last week that was making the argument that the Becket Price guide for baseball cards wasn't just reporting baseball card prices, but was in fact setting the prices in many instances and were largely responsible for the huge increase in popularity we saw with baseball cards during those years, especially with the spectators that entered the market. And of course, the readers of Beckett Monthly made a LOT of purchases based off the reporting done in that magazine and the prices posted in that magazine. 

 

23 hours ago, Mayor006 said:

Lots of things I take away from this thread already....

One of these days that "modern" comic book, printed back in the 80's is going to be well over a 50, 60, 70 years old.  Yes, true atomic, golden, silver and copper will be even older, but still time marches on and things happen.  Drinks are spilled, fires burn, buildings collapse, things are lost.  Things become rarer across the board. Not necessarily more valuable, just rarer.  Those modern Zenescope covers limited to 250 copies or less? Probably not worth much, but will be pretty darn scarce in less than 50 years!  So realize what it is you are collecting for....is it scarcity, your enjoyment, or something like popularity?

Speaking of popularity, with the way technology works "today" it is very easy to influence people as to what should be popular.  How? Well, let's start a forum on a board where we conserve books and tell people what we think is hot for instance.  Let's start groups on social sites and share stories about the next big movie coming out and all the books it was based off of.  Stuff like this didn't exist less than 20 years ago and will continue to change as the generations do.  Word of mouth, zines, newspapers, and magazines were the way of getting word out then.  Now it is word of mouth, text, email, blogging, the internet, podcasts, and thankfully a few of the prior generation's mediums made it as well.  Each generation will have different influences that set what is popular for them.

I enjoy reading these discussions, especially on how everyone feels the market is performing.  I've seen prices increase in GA for sure and in some niche areas of what I would consider the modern market, i.e. the "movie" and "celebrity" markets for sure.  That last one hasn't been discussed much, but with the online market of Celebrity Authentics and SS Facilitators I think its an interesting market that wasn't even feasible 20 years ago.

I feel like a lot of people around my age (46) are thinking the way I am from the comments, that I want to focus my collection.  I went to a small show in Atlanta yesterday and spent two hours surrounded by a LOT of people diving in boxes.  Some incredible books on the wall and I was either just not feeling it or, what I'm afraid of, I'm just not interested in buying them anymore.  I'm happy to see them, but I don't feel they need to be mine.  I bought one book to complete a set that I will be listing on Ebay.  

Lastly, these are all just my opinions.  These and $5 might still get you a happy meal at McDonald's so take them for what they are worth.

 

 

The inherent problem with this line of thinking is that there is a BIG difference between collectibles that become rare naturally over time and collectibles made to be rare on purpose. Yes, Zenescope's comics that are limited to a couple hundred copies will likely become more rare as time goes on, but the one thing your not factoring into this is just how many of those books exist. Its not just how many of a particular comic exist, but also how many of those types of comics are in existence and Zenescope is pumping out those really limited comics in ridiculous numbers. 10 years from now there will be so many of those comics that it will be next to impossible even keeping up with all of them and that will unquestionably have an effect on the overall demand on those comics as well as the overall price. If you look at comic production back in the golden age and silver age, you didn't have hundreds of different variants being released annually. 

Again, there is a VERY big difference between something that becomes rare naturally over time and something that is produced to be rare on purpose. If I were able to place a wager, my money would be on most of Zenescope's rare variants dropping in price considerably as the years go by. 10 years from now, I expect most people will be able to buy 85% of Zenescope's variants for $10-$15 tops, if that much. 

Not to mention, most of the variants being produced today are being bagged and boarded or slabbed, so its going to take SIGNIFICANTLY longer for those comics to become rarer and rarer as time goes on. Comics will never become rare like they did back in the day. The pre speculation era has come and gone and people really need to readjust thier expectations in regards to rarity and the rate at which comics will start to become rarer over time. And its the same with a lot of other collectors markets as well. Many collectors now keep various collectibles unopened, like action figures. And thier putting them into protective slabs or boxes, just like people are doing with comics. So many of those collectibles will literally last for hundreds of years before they start to see noticeable degradation. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by OrangeCrush

[Mayor006]

No, I totally agree with that line of thinking.  I wasn't saying that you should run out and buy the Zenescopes because they were already "scarce" because of their limited print runs.  I was actually, kind of poking fun at them a little, and will admit to having a VIP membership and about 20 of them slabbed.  I was simply using them as an example that probably would have been better served using an Ambush Bug #1 or something else completely random that no one really is looking for, probably had a small print run to begin with, shop owners didn't stock much of and what they did have went in the dollar bin and somebody's toddler ripped it apart  (I can attest to that last part, having helped taught both my children to read using comic books....).  If you are looking simply for scarcity, that book is now it! Tons of books like that were printed, forgotten, never taken to conventions because they weren't worth loading up, and simply lost to the world.  That make more sense?

As for the Beckett article, I would love to read that.  I think that drives my point home, and would say Wizard magazine was the driving force behind a lot of HOT books back then as @Aweandlorder mentioned, before the real internet craze we are in today.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Mayor006

[1Cool]

11 minutes ago, Mayor006 said:

No, I totally agree with that line of thinking.  I wasn't saying that you should run out and buy the Zenescopes because they were already "scarce" because of their limited print runs.  I was actually, kind of poking fun at them a little, and will admit to having a VIP membership and about 20 of them slabbed.  I was simply using them as an example that probably would have been better served using an Ambush Bug #1 or something else completely random that no one really is looking for, probably had a small print run to begin with, shop owners didn't stock much of and what they did have went in the dollar bin and somebody's toddler ripped it apart  (I can attest to that last part, having helped taught both my children to read using comic books....).  If you are looking simply for scarcity, that book is now it! Tons of books like that were printed, forgotten, never taken to conventions because they weren't worth loading up, and simply lost to the world.  That make more sense?

As for the Beckett article, I would love to read that.  I think that drives my point home, and would say Wizard magazine was the driving force behind a lot of HOT books back then as @Aweandlorder mentioned, before the real internet craze we are in today.

I think it's funny to see which books were "hot" prior to being in Wizard's Hot List each month and those that became hot afterwards.  We bash on people for coming in the Hot on E-Bay threads and tying to bump up certain books they own but I'd think Wizard was just one big advertisement for books they wanted to see jump in prices. 

[Dick Pontoon]

The most fascinating aspect of this thread for me has been finding out Gene stores his comics at his parents' house.

[lizards2]

11 minutes ago, Pontoon said:

The most fascinating aspect of this thread for me has been finding out Gene stores his comics at his parents' house.

I don't think I got the last few comic boxes out of my parent's house until I was about 45ish.  Now it's my house, and I can start moving some boxes back in, if I wanted to.

[Aweandlorder]

1 hour ago, 1Cool said:

I think it's funny to see which books were "hot" prior to being in Wizard's Hot List each month and those that became hot afterwards.  We bash on people for coming in the Hot on E-Bay threads and tying to bump up certain books they own but I'd think Wizard was just one big advertisement for books they wanted to see jump in prices. 

Wizard had NOTHING on Chuck R's pumps. In a way I'm glad I experienced that at the time and learned my lesson when I didn't have a lot of money  

if you guys would like I could share some of his craziest spec articles from back then so you could have a laugh I got tons of his N.I.C.E. Guts & Glory newsletter articles at home from back then (88-91)

[Mayor006]

56 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

Wizard had NOTHING on Chuck R's pumps. In a way I'm glad I experienced that at the time and learned my lesson when I didn't have a lot of money  

if you guys would like I could share some of his craziest spec articles from back then so you could have a laugh I got tons of his N.I.C.E. Guts & Glory newsletter articles at home from back then (88-91)

I think those would be awesome in their own thread! Some people might miss out on them if you put them in here.  Just throw us a link if you do put them up.

[Hepcat]

On 8/25/2017 at 4:10 PM, Mr. Zipper said:

So true.

The days of the "completist" collector are gone. That is how boomers and Gen X started collecting. There used to be great accomplishment in building a solid run of a popular title. That has been replaced by a focus on classic covers and uber high grade slabs.

 

 

Nonsense. I'm still here. And I plan to be around longer than most of the dilettantes "investing" in uber high grade slabs on the basis of hype generated by the latest big budget Hollywood flick.

And if prices of comics fall when these dilettantes engage in panic selling, great! I'll be able to fill in my runs more cheaply.

 

[jaeldubyoo]

As a Baby Boomer, I’m ready to cash out. Maybe I’m being naïve, but comic movies have nothing to do with my desire to sell off most of my collection. I don’t care whether or not comic movies will continue to make money. Yes, I understand that comic movies may affect the value of some comics. But at this point, it really doesn’t matter. Of course I will keep those few comics that are near and dear to my heart, but I’m ready to let most of them go. It’s time for me to let go. It’s certainly not because I think comic movies will or will not continue to be as popular as they are now. Bottom line-I’m ready to cash out because I’m getting older.

[Bomber-Bob]

9 minutes ago, jaeldubyoo said:

As a Baby Boomer, I’m ready to cash out. Maybe I’m being naïve, but comic movies have nothing to do with my desire to sell off most of my collection. I don’t care whether or not comic movies will continue to make money. Yes, I understand that comic movies may affect the value of some comics. But at this point, it really doesn’t matter. Of course I will keep those few comics that are near and dear to my heart, but I’m ready to let most of them go. It’s time for me to let go. It’s certainly not because I think comic movies will or will not continue to be as popular as they are now. Bottom line-I’m ready to cash out because I’m getting older.

Be careful, from an emotional POV, you may regret selling your books later on. Suggestion: sell half. When you are done with that, if you still feel the same, then sell some more. Seller's remorse is a very common thing. 

[Hepcat]

1 hour ago, jaeldubyoo said:

Bottom line-I’m ready to cash out because I’m getting older.

 

Sell the comics and you'll soon have neither the comics nor the money.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Hepcat

[jaeldubyoo]

2 hours ago, Hepcat said:

 

Sell the comics and you'll soon have neither the comics nor the money.

But I'll have the memories.

I have over 14,000 comics. I intend to keep just a few hundred. I can't see paying for storage for things I no longer need or want.