Are the Boomers cashing out? 6 6

[Von Cichlid]

4 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

Of course. This is not a records vs comics debate. This is just to draw an example from my own experience and to demonstrate how much money is spent on records as opposed to comics

I have had thousands of Pop, Hip Hop, New Wave, Punk, Freestyle (sigh, sorry Im from NY), House, Techno Trance... Tons...

The weird thing about records is this.. The absolutely rarest stuff I ever owned was in the electronica genre, stuff youd never heard about. The pressings were hundreds, probably less at times. I knew the guys and girls from the distribution lines (Downtown 161, groovejet, etc) I'd get the first copies off of them before theyd sell out at the stores. None of these ever picked value, although they were big hits at the clubs. Huge!

Even when I finally decided to sell my collection, mainly because they occupied so much space. I had advertised on craigslist for OVER A YEAR and had very few bites. The ones that came over, looked, said they loved what they saw but didnt buy. Finally I had a guy that actually collected comic books and offered me cash with a trade for some amazing books. I got 800$ plus early graded and signed ASMs, FFs and DDs plus a few thousands Bronze/Copper books

My dad's records (I want my daddy's records!!) were of great value. Most classic rock and Motown. But were talking 60s-70s

 

That's awesome.  I've only gotten back into comic collecting in the last year and if somebody offered me an equivalent value trade for SA / BA books for my music I would probably take it.  My wife and 9/14 year old daughters aren't too fond of my music tastes either (that is probably a good thing) so I can't listen to it a whole lot anyway.  Plus, the older I get the more and more I just prefer silence.

[Aweandlorder]

13 minutes ago, Von Cichlid said:

That's awesome.  I've only gotten back into comic collecting in the last year and if somebody offered me an equivalent value trade for SA / BA books for my music I would probably take it.  My wife and 9/14 year old daughters aren't too fond of my music tastes either (that is probably a good thing) so I can't listen to it a whole lot anyway.  Plus, the older I get the more and more I just prefer silence.

Every word ma'man. Every word. 

I live in the city and most of my young adult life I spent working the nightlife. I now live in a (relatively) quiet neighborhood and just dying to get out of the city. I have properties down south and midwest but I just cant make the move yet. I always say Ill do it next year, but find another excuse to stay. Maybe next year...

As for music, I cant listen to it anymore. I think Ive been traumatized after playing over 500 gigs in my lifetime. Ill listen to some stuff on my phone on my way to work and in the gym but thats it. Maybe its gone, or who knows, maybe ill get to be a 60 year old hippy one day and re-start collecting records again. So far Im happy with my decision to focus on comics as opposed to music.

[Martin Sinescu]

5 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

Every word ma'man. Every word. 

I live in the city and most of my young adult life I spent working the nightlife. I now live in a (relatively) quiet neighborhood and just dying to get out of the city. I have properties down south and midwest but I just cant make the move yet. I always say Ill do it next year, but find another excuse to stay. Maybe next year...

As for music, I cant listen to it anymore. I think Ive been traumatized after playing over 500 gigs in my lifetime. Ill listen to some stuff on my phone on my way to work and in the gym but thats it. Maybe its gone, or who knows, maybe ill get to be a 60 year old hippy one day and re-start collecting records again. So far Im happy with my decision to focus on comics as opposed to music.

Exact same here. I have ONE band I still listen to when I actually want to hear music in the car, but that's a pretty rare occurrence. Sometimes at home I'll load up the disc changer with Jazz while I'm cleaning house. I still listen to my old metal/hardcore faves in my work out mix, but it's about 30% for the adrenaline/70% just to have some white noise to tune out everything around me. Otherwise, I don't want to hear a freaking peep.

Incidentally, I was still buying vinyl in the mid-90's, partly because a lot of the hardcore bands I liked were only putting out vinyl. I did quite well a few years back when I sold off some of it (White Zombie, Tool, Alice in Chains, etc.). Most went around $100 or so and they weren't sealed. t still have an early or first pressing of Kill 'Em All that I just couldn't part with when I sold the rest.

[namisgr]

Something's behind the steadily falling prices for low to mid grade Silver Age that isn't considered key.  Reduced demand and increased supply are both probably responsible.

[fmaz]

5 minutes ago, namisgr said:

Something's behind the steadily falling prices for low to mid grade Silver Age that isn't considered key.  Reduced demand and increased supply are both probably responsible.

I honestly think the market change that has led to reduced prices is what has allowed interest in collecting to spread and grow in recent years... thanks, of course, to the saturation of comic culture into movies.   But the market change I'm talking about is basically eBay.  EBay has suddenly created a huge new avenue to comparision shop and buy books for people who, in the past, were limited (if lucky) to one LCS which could charge inflated prices for back issue books.  But once eBay took hold, the market corrected... and people suddenly found that no matter where they lived they had access to whatever book they wanted in whatever grade, and several price points.  It's the golden age of comic collecting in many ways.. for buyers.

And let's face it... for sellers? People used to have one option if they weren't lucky enough to live in an area that hosted comic cons /comic book shows - take a long box of comics into their LCS and get $0.10 on the dollar.  Now they can sell the books to people all around the world at market competive prices.

So yes, prices ARE lower... but I'd argue that the fact that there are more comic book transactions in general is not evidence of a "selling off" of the hobby, but of a wide-open market that allows for a much more vibrant and fluid market.

 

[oakman29]

10 hours ago, Martin Sinescu said:

It's relative. Coming into most hobbies at entry-level is daunting when you're on a limited budget. There were plenty of books that were already prohibitively expensive when I started collecting back issues in the late 80's (not even talking GA or early SA... many early Bronze keys were way out of my range). Then again, I was in my mid-to-late teens and had the buying power of a bag-boy. Same thing with baseball cards when I was younger and didn't have a job, just an allowance and birthday money. I've been pretty well priced out of '52 Mantles and AF 15's since the beginning. I make more now, they cost more now. 

What I'm curious about is if Boomers are really "Cashing Out" collections at this point. We're really only talking about 60's-70's here. Some are just recently retired or may even continue working past the normal retirement age. Is that really when you start dumping the hard work you put into a hobby? I would think some might even take retirement as a chance to devote more time to their passions. Also, I'm not sure too that many are dying off. Some, maybe, but I don't think it's an epidemic yet. Most should still have a comfortable 20-30 years left. 

I can't wait to retire, that's when I acquire that holy Grail of mine. A Tec 27

[FineCollector]

Supply is the same, demand is down.  New people would buy some of everything if they weren't being told by experienced collectors that they really want to sink their money into keys because that's the only thing that goes up in price... I used to have full runs and got bored... quality over quantity... only a handful copies graded... 

Speaking as a relatively small dollar collector, I'm not allowed to like what I like around here.  A lot of boardies spout off about how they have such wonderful collections after they flushed all the garbage (which usually ends up being things I collect), and they can't be bothered with cheap books.  The politest thing you guys say is that a low grade book is an "entry level copy," which couldn't make you sound any snobbier.    If you guys are the experts, people are listening to you, and watching you show off.  If you want new collectors to keep buying low to mid grade, tell them to buy low to mid grade, don't act like there's a bad smell coming off it.

[SteppinRazor]

8 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

I was DJing professionally from the 90s till last year really. I bought mainly LPs in the 80s just to play, and 12" singles when I took my hobby seriously, again, just to play, not collect. I remember in the late 90s early 00s blowing all my money on records. I played mainly dance & Hip Hop and later Electronica (what they loosely refer to as EDM nowadays) as thats what most clubs/bars would cater to. There were also record pools I joined which were going for more money than what a subscription of a whole line of books from one publisher will cost you. The way I saw it was, I made that money back (and then some) from gigs. But all these records had no value. I had a tremendous amount of records that were limited editions, promos, even some test pressings. Zilch.

This is ABSOLUTELY not to say that records make for horrible collectibles. But merely to illustrate how comic books, which I paid very little for at the time (mainly late 70s to 80s, by the 90s I ditched) which I collected mostly for reading, ended up being a FAR FAAAAAR better investment at a FRACTION of the cost, than records.

And youre absolutely right, I had many of those "weird" friends who actually collected records, did not dare play them out, went after the avant garde, imports, treasured each one and treated them better than their pets. I dont recall anyone calling them "speculators" or "investors" at the time. Just "Vinyl Nerds". How is it that they dont get the same treatment that comic book collectors who dont read books and buy them for the same reasons do, is beyond me

I see a bunch of hipster records/vintage clothing/video game stores here in Houston.  Are those stores not viable buyers for records?

[oakman29]

I'll be damned if I cash out! I'll let my boys do it after I'm gone. Your going to see it someday, the "Oakman collection" from Heritage auctions. 

[Azkaban]

1 hour ago, oakman29 said:

I can't wait to retire, that's when I acquire that holy Grail of mine. A Tec 27

Same for me  maybe not a tec 27 but another grail

[Von Cichlid]

1 hour ago, FineCollector said:

Supply is the same, demand is down.  New people would buy some of everything if they weren't being told by experienced collectors that they really want to sink their money into keys because that's the only thing that goes up in price... I used to have full runs and got bored... quality over quantity... only a handful copies graded... 

Speaking as a relatively small dollar collector, I'm not allowed to like what I like around here.  A lot of boardies spout off about how they have such wonderful collections after they flushed all the garbage (which usually ends up being things I collect), and they can't be bothered with cheap books.  The politest thing you guys say is that a low grade book is an "entry level copy," which couldn't make you sound any snobbier.    If you guys are the experts, people are listening to you, and watching you show off.  If you want new collectors to keep buying low to mid grade, tell them to buy low to mid grade, don't act like there's a bad smell coming off it.

Of the 200 or so SA issues I own, the average grade is probably a 5.0.  I love them all though. The only thing that matters to me is that the paper quality is decent and the books look good in a mylite2.  Color breaking creases and small tears are OK.  The only thing I hate is when the inside cover is so tanned that even opening and closing the cover makes me nervous as to whether or not the book will split.  I have been burned on ebay a few times already with books like that.  Seeing the front and back cover of a book is not enough.  From now on I try to only bid on books where the seller is thoughtful enough to take a picture of the book with the front page opened up.

[Readcomix]

1 hour ago, FineCollector said:

Supply is the same, demand is down.  New people would buy some of everything if they weren't being told by experienced collectors that they really want to sink their money into keys because that's the only thing that goes up in price... I used to have full runs and got bored... quality over quantity... only a handful copies graded... 

Speaking as a relatively small dollar collector, I'm not allowed to like what I like around here.  A lot of boardies spout off about how they have such wonderful collections after they flushed all the garbage (which usually ends up being things I collect), and they can't be bothered with cheap books.  The politest thing you guys say is that a low grade book is an "entry level copy," which couldn't make you sound any snobbier.    If you guys are the experts, people are listening to you, and watching you show off.  If you want new collectors to keep buying low to mid grade, tell them to buy low to mid grade, don't act like there's a bad smell coming off it.

While there's lots of graceful boardies, there's also lots of truth in this sentiment. Sure I like a nicer looking copy over a lesser one, but if it's a book I want and the only copy I can get, I still love it. Always have. I can't think of a better thing I've seen happen in this hobby in a long time, movie hype notwithstanding, than Overstreet moving up many GA prices in lower grades. While condition is a part of collecting collectibles, the fundamental chase should be the intrinsic cool factors (in the best shape possible) not just the shape itself. Kinda reminds me of the guys who spend more time waxing their sports cars than going around turns sideways. 

Just as important is that the hobby needs collectors who are also ambassadors. I grew up influenced by dealers who played this role (not just selling me stuff; I never saw a GA on offer in Iron Vic's or Octobercountry, but Vic Bertini and Bruce Conklin would always be willing to regale with tales of the mystique of GA books. Similarly, I can't remember the last Dolgoff market report where he failed to gush like a kid about any GA Caps he acquired in the past year -- and that's a good thing as well as an important one).

Its easy to get to a certain level of collecting focus, so to speak, and forget that your flip book is someone else's key/Grail, but we do the hobby no favors with this behavior. The best way to show off a cool collection is to share your passion while showing those books; you can derisively think of it as grooming your buyers for when you cash out, but I prefer to think of it as grooming future stewards of these treasures. (I do think a lot of boardies do this well.)

Speaking for myself, far from flushing garbage, I've sold or traded a lot of books I've loved in order to acquire books I've wanted for years. But it does not mean I don't miss them. I traded my SA Dr Strange run for a GA Batman, for example. I'd do it again, but I miss them too. I guess sometime ago I came to the realization that collecting is stewardship. So I figure it's better to have as many beloved books as possible for a time, even if you have to slowly cycle through in order to have as many as you can over the course of one's collecting days. Some stay longer than others, some come back, but it's all stewardship. You want to hoard a favorite book, fine, but share the passion that makes you hoard it in the first place. 

[Fan Boy]

Fantastic reading! Very interesting on the topic with a good point. I had been wondering when it is the prefect time to see baby boomers decided to let go. Of course, it is also very unpredictable to know. Take my mother as an example, she is a baby boomer, but is not retired yet. Already senior citizen now (she's 68) and still working in her job. 

There are many other cases like her, still at their jobs. Some had gone retired early. However, what of their collections to cash out? That is different from their "retirement".  When one decides it is time to retire, doesn't mean it is time to cash out their collection. 

Not all go at the same time. 

Also, I see some of you talk about vinyl records in music. I'll take your word since I never owned a record at all. Comic books are my "records"  ... to my eyes.  

[rjrjr]

On 8/25/2017 at 2:09 PM, Beardown said:

If the boomers were the ones reading and then collecting there childhood superhero's, which I think they were, wouldn't the kids of today growing up watching all of these fantastic movies keep the ball rolling so to speak. 

That is, I'm not sure there is much difference in when or how you fell in love with the characters.  You're still going to look for where they came from, and it's not going to be a collection of dvd's I'm guessing, but rather the books that they were created from.     I think the typical "kid" who learned of these characters through movies will be drawn to the comic books they came from just the same as if you grew up reading the books themselves.   

Just my experience so far with my 13 year old son.  He hasn't read a lot of the older books but he is absolutely drawn to the silver age Thor, Ironman (Avengers) and such WAY more than anything new.  Looking through a long box of Tales of Suspense low grade books is what he really gets excited about -vs- anything new on a wall at the LCS.

I think it is the very rare comic collector who picks up their first book when they are in their 20s versus when they were kids.  I just don't see people watching these movies all of a sudden becoming interested in the source material if they otherwise had no interest in reading comics.  that just is not going to happen.

[Gatsby77]

3 hours ago, rjrjr said:

I think it is the very rare comic collector who picks up their first book when they are in their 20s versus when they were kids.  I just don't see people watching these movies all of a sudden becoming interested in the source material if they otherwise had no interest in reading comics.  that just is not going to happen.

This.

The main reason I think Silver Age books will fall a bit when the first generation of collectors begin to retire in 10-12 years?

There's no infrastructure in place to inspire a new generation of readers. Kids today aren't reading comics like they did in generations past.

Homecoming made well over $300 million at the domestic box office, yet the top-selling Spider-Man book in July sold less than 68,000 copies -- and a few hundred copies less than The Walking Dead.

[silverweb]

8 hours ago, Von Cichlid said:

Of the 200 or so SA issues I own, the average grade is probably a 5.0.  I love them all though. The only thing that matters to me is that the paper quality is decent and the books look good in a mylite2.  Color breaking creases and small tears are OK.  The only thing I hate is when the inside cover is so tanned that even opening and closing the cover makes me nervous as to whether or not the book will split.  I have been burned on ebay a few times already with books like that.  Seeing the front and back cover of a book is not enough.  From now on I try to only bid on books where the seller is thoughtful enough to take a picture of the book with the front page opened up.

Bravo! Yes, I applaud full disclosure and also hate interior surprises. For that reason, when I sell my higher value raw books, I include a picture of the inside front and back covers, even the centerfold.

[grayzr]

On 8/25/2017 at 3:44 PM, Lazyboy said:

Not really. They are only just beginning to do so.

When the majority are cashing out, you'll know.

Absolutely not. There is no way the market will be able to cope with both the removal of their demand and the increase from their supply. Prices have increased too much over the years for that to happen.

It's not the (mostly) low value low/mid-grade non-keys that will be impacted the most. The largest impact will be on the higher value stuff, especially that which has dramatically increased in price in the recent past.

Agree with both points here.

Any true collector who has been collecting before the movie hype will agree that even the big keys are way up in the stratosphere these days.

The hobby has become popular among investors and hype artists.

Almost seems like a perfect storm is brewing.

Boomers getting ready to unload, movie hype starts to calms down (after infinity war part 2 most likely), stock market begins to drop... ok Im reaching now but its possible.

As the joker once said

 

 

 

 

[silverweb]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

This.

The main reason I think Silver Age books will fall a bit when the first generation of collectors begin to retire in 10-12 years?

There's no infrastructure in place to inspire a new generation of readers. Kids today aren't reading comics like they did in generations past.

Homecoming made well over $300 million at the domestic box office, yet the top-selling Spider-Man book in July sold less than 68,000 copies -- and a few hundred copies less than The Walking Dead.

 

The SA Marvel key books began around 1963, so if you were ten or older growing up and reading them (like myself) , you would be reaching retirement age in about 3 years, much sooner than 10 to 12 years.

I collected some fine runs of SA Marvel titles, and I love them for their stories and art, not for what I could sell them for at a later date. I believe in "Collect what you love and love what you collect".

I think comic books will all fall with the next RECESSION! Best time to buy!

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2017 by silverweb

[Readcomix]

2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

 

There's no infrastructure in place to inspire a new generation of readers.

When you boil my rant down, this is what I was getting at. We are the infrastructure these days. 

[1950's war comics]

i like and pursue lower grade issues , if a i buy a $20 VG  1950's common comic then the most i have lost is $20

if i pay high dollars and buy a VF comic of the same issue for say $400 ... the downside risk is much more..........