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Are we in the midst of a new Golden Age of comics today?
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24 posts in this topic

There will be lots of opinions I imagine, so here's mine. Both Marvel & DC have been worse overall, but they sure aren't good right now (especially Marvel). The last four or five years of independent comics have produced some really good books though many feel there has been a slow down on that... though I'd say the speculation train has just slowed down, and I view that as a good thing personally.

 

Edited by SquareChaos
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Yeah I think there are some good comics out there right now.... but

1. The speculation in moderns is frightening. Sometimes I fear it  is so wild that it could undermine collecting and turn all comic collecting on its ear. It is rampant and disappointing to see. There is no precedent for the "value" of modern speculation. Any perceived value rests on the real Golden Age as does much of the valuation of the other eras.

2. Plainly there is no where near enough broad interest in comicbooks. Once again referring to the Golden Age the number of people that actually collect and read Modern comics is small in terms of percent that might have interest in a given property. In the Golden Age comics were on every street corner, every drugstore, supermarket, used book store and  gas station , etc. Of the 320 million people living in the US right now how many of us actually go down to the corner store any more to pick up the newspaper and a coffee and get "the kids a comic"? I am not looking at any sales figures or publication #s but I got a hunch it is not a lot. Comics are not what they once were: a major mode of entertainment. 

3. Alot of the reason for the above statement is that we live in the information age. We have technology to circumvent the need to own physical copies. People get the news on-line and so too do many many people read comics; Often for free . This is reflected in what are actual print and sales numbers which are from what I know quite low.  Back when print runs were in the hundreds of thousands and those issues sold in large part comics took up a necessary space on store shelf space. You still have comic shops with pull lists and dedicated readers , I buy more than my share of floppies and back issue readers myself. But the 60's + 70's rebirth is over, the 80's boom is done, the 90's crash is in the past and the modern age simply consists of  the die hard's. 

4. Evidenced this all is in Modern comic culture. Look at comic cons. I hear they consist mostly of pop-culture/cosplay. TV series and movies drum up some interest in comics but a lot of that energy is bled of into other modes of comic culture and fan-dom.  Yes those people in attendance are buying , sometimes big, but does it really consist of a full resurgence and new Golden age? I just do not see how.

Comics will always be a beloved and popular cultural medium . The art , the stories and characters will remain iconic. At best the reflourishing and resurgence could cause a "renaissance" so unless someone can explain how it is a new Golden Age just because of some good writing  I say no way.IMO

 

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1 hour ago, darkstar said:

...that get abandoned almost as quickly as it takes Marvel to reboot a title.

Fingers crossed, none of the series I'm following would just be abandoned. Completed, I'm more than fine with.

I collect a few books as single issues but for the most part, I'm a reader and would rather get the hardcover or trade paperback collections. Side benefit of that, no 6+ month wait in the middle of a story arc. Coming from the book world where it looks like it'll take a decade before The Winds of Winter is released, the 1-3 year wait between graphic novel volumes doesn't seem too bad.

Edited by aerischan
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33 minutes ago, H0RR0RSH0W said:

Yeah I think there are some good comics out there right now.... but

1. The speculation in moderns is frightening. Sometimes I fear it  is so wild that it could undermine collecting and turn all comic collecting on its ear. It is rampant and disappointing to see. There is no precedent for the "value" of modern speculation. Any perceived value rests on the real Golden Age as does much of the valuation of the other eras.

2. Plainly there is no where near enough broad interest in comicbooks. Once again referring to the Golden Age the number of people that actually collect and read Modern comics is small in terms of percent that might have interest in a given property. In the Golden Age comics were on every street corner, every drugstore, supermarket, used book store and  gas station , etc. Of the 320 million people living in the US right now how many of us actually go down to the corner store any more to pick up the newspaper and a coffee and get "the kids a comic"? I am not looking at any sales figures or publication #s but I got a hunch it is not a lot. Comics are not what they once were: a major mode of entertainment. 

3. Alot of the reason for the above statement is that we live in the information age. We have technology to circumvent the need to own physical copies. People get the news on-line and so too do many many people read comics; Often for free . This is reflected in what are actual print and sales numbers which are from what I know quite low.  Back when print runs were in the hundreds of thousands and those issues sold in large part comics took up a necessary space on store shelf space. You still have comic shops with pull lists and dedicated readers , I buy more than my share of floppies and back issue readers myself. But the 60's + 70's rebirth is over, the 80's boom is done, the 90's crash is in the past and the modern age simply consists of  the die hard's. 

4. Evidenced this all is in Modern comic culture. Look at comic cons. I hear they consist mostly of pop-culture/cosplay. TV series and movies drum up some interest in comics but a lot of that energy is bled of into other modes of comic culture and fan-dom.  Yes those people in attendance are buying , sometimes big, but does it really consist of a full resurgence and new Golden age? I just do not see how.

Comics will always be a beloved and popular cultural medium . The art , the stories and characters will remain iconic. At best the reflourishing and resurgence could cause a "renaissance" so unless someone can explain how it is a new Golden Age just because of some good writing  I say no way.IMO

 

Renaissance is probably a more apt term.

That said, looking solely at floppy sales is myopic unless your primary concern is comic valuation in which case, yes, modern speculation looks like the wild west.

Graphic novel sales figures through book channels (Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Walmart, etc):

Year - Units Sold - Retail Value

2012 - 9,562,236 - $164,415,366

2013 - 10,153,628 (+6.18%) - $176,419,370

2014 - 11,820,324 (+16.41%) - $207,598,355

2015 - 15,269,550 (+29.18%) - $259,807,532

2016 - 17,302,891 (+13.32%) - $293,583,180

Graphic novels sold through/to indie book stores, book fairs, comic book stores, libraries or digital are not included in the above. I do have to say, comics/graphic novels seem to be more accepted now by librarians compared to what it was like even in the recent past.

And really, the value of Golden Age comics is what it is because there were few collectors at the time while having a lot of readers. Nowadays, my guess is almost all the floppy buyers are collectors that keep their floppies bagged and boarded.

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I thought this when Image Comics launched.  Valiant was picking up steam and Defiant had some great stuff coming out.

Looking back now it was pretty stupid for me to think thatlol.

 

This period in time is more memorable on the movie side than on the actual comic book side.

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2 hours ago, aerischan said:

Renaissance is probably a more apt term.

That said, looking solely at floppy sales is myopic unless your primary concern is comic valuation in which case, yes, modern speculation looks like the wild west.

Graphic novel sales figures through book channels (Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Walmart, etc):

Year - Units Sold - Retail Value

2012 - 9,562,236 - $164,415,366

2013 - 10,153,628 (+6.18%) - $176,419,370

2014 - 11,820,324 (+16.41%) - $207,598,355

2015 - 15,269,550 (+29.18%) - $259,807,532

2016 - 17,302,891 (+13.32%) - $293,583,180

Graphic novels sold through/to indie book stores, book fairs, comic book stores, libraries or digital are not included in the above. I do have to say, comics/graphic novels seem to be more accepted now by librarians compared to what it was like even in the recent past.

And really, the value of Golden Age comics is what it is because there were few collectors at the time while having a lot of readers. Nowadays, my guess is almost all the floppy buyers are collectors that keep their floppies bagged and boarded.

A very valuable and interesting perspective to include Graphic Novels. The figures are something to raise an eyebrow at. I would very much agree that graphic novels are a major focus of attention for anyone wanting to read the story line for a property. Many times( although I would personally push people to seek out individual issues as opposed to a republished collection) I talk to people about this TPB or that that they just bought .  Highly sought after(clearly).

Myopic perhaps to look at floppy sales but I highly highly doubt that in 10-20 years time we are going to see key issues come out of this era having experienced exponential growth in value.  In that regard it is common knowledge that the big 2 are doing persistent reboots in their own unimaginative and short-sighted goal to drum up sales. Stats simply show #1's sell more copies. Well duh doh! . Imagine how that restricts creators. Certainly more readily than it would stoke the creative fires. Like being choked by diversity rather than being suffocated for lack of fuel. The crux being keys become valuable for a reason; because rarity aside they are good comics that create a focal point in a storyline.

If I did have a dog in this race it would have to be with the indie publishers. I find my reading focused around indies and yes I myself bag and board everything. Everything. lol 

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Any era that Axel Alonso and Nick Spencer are a part of can not be considered Gold (or Silver or Bronze or Copper for that matter).  They are straight up Tin.  As in tin can.  As in time to hit the recycling bin.  Is Secret Empire over yet?! What a dumpster fire that storyline has turned out to be. 

Edited by Mercury Man
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I am enjoying this era be it Marvel ,DC,or Valiant ...I don't collect much Image (never seemed to spark much interest except the 90's books).I am a true dinosaur I don't own a cell phone or pager or any gaming system and don't read digital comics .comics physical have and will always be my chief form of entertainment except for bulletin boards or eBay ..reading a comic in hand that has good art and a decent storyline is like magic something you cant get from a game which allot of kids don't get from this era.i read 10 comics a day minimum and make the time even with my Parkinson's I learned to read with comics so I may be biased but I would rather give my niece a comic when she is a little older then a cell phone .If a kid sees fun in any hobby a relative will buy them that to spark their imagination.

Their have always been speculators no matter the hobby some may say that it hurts comics but I believe they help i.e. a person is more likely to read a floppy or a graphic novel if they are collecting them. This gets money to Indy, Marvel ,DC, Valiant  etc.to create more comics which a person who has no interest in comics hears about online or by movie and they buy a comic .All good things in my book .some may see a negative which I understand and respect but I kind of see a positive at least to me not that it matters.

 

Edited by comicsyte95
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Personally, I'm glad to be collecting right now... in terms of back issues from eras prior, you can find some great deals out there. While I've been mostly a Marvel guy my collecting life, they are pretty low in terms of my priority right now... DC is definitely mopping the floor with them right now. About 5 years ago, Marvel was putting out some of the best runs in recent memory of the big two, but that has really changed in the last two years. Then you look at Image... I don't think there's been more consistently great output from a publisher in my lifetime. Even the lesser and overlooked books hold some creative value to me (Ringside... no one cares about it, but I thought it was great... then you've got the weird stuff like 8House and Island that people don't tend to care much for, but I've never read anything quite like those books.) Then there's the great Image books that haven't jumped up in value at all, like Paper Girls, in my opinion one of the very best books on the market. Other indie publishers are putting out great stuff left and right like Albatross, Aftershock, and even Black Mask to an extent.

The spec market does terrify me, though. Especially on certain Image books (Redneck, Seven To Eternity, God Country) and even stuff from the big two (Totally Awesome Hulk #22, I'm looking dead at you). I don't really have a point to this post but to say that I can kind of see where the OP is coming from, but this is certainly not a golden age for comics in general. 

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On 8/27/2017 at 1:56 PM, H0RR0RSH0W said:

A very valuable and interesting perspective to include Graphic Novels. The figures are something to raise an eyebrow at. I would very much agree that graphic novels are a major focus of attention for anyone wanting to read the story line for a property. Many times( although I would personally push people to seek out individual issues as opposed to a republished collection) I talk to people about this TPB or that that they just bought .  Highly sought after(clearly).

Myopic perhaps to look at floppy sales but I highly highly doubt that in 10-20 years time we are going to see key issues come out of this era having experienced exponential growth in value.  In that regard it is common knowledge that the big 2 are doing persistent reboots in their own unimaginative and short-sighted goal to drum up sales. Stats simply show #1's sell more copies. Well duh doh! . Imagine how that restricts creators. Certainly more readily than it would stoke the creative fires. Like being choked by diversity rather than being suffocated for lack of fuel. The crux being keys become valuable for a reason; because rarity aside they are good comics that create a focal point in a storyline.

If I did have a dog in this race it would have to be with the indie publishers. I find my reading focused around indies and yes I myself bag and board everything. Everything. lol 

I can't even begin to predict what comic will be hot tomorrow let alone what would remain valuable in 10-20 years.

My point isn't so much regarding comic collecting as a hobby. Rather, it's that comics as a medium are regaining widespread acceptance and readership. Sure, you can't buy them from the newsstand around the corner anymore. However, I can buy/borrow comics on comiXology or Marvel Unlimited or Hoopla at 1am on a whim using my tablet when I'm already in my jammies. If I enjoy what I read enough to want a copy for archival, I can easily order either the graphic novel from InStockTrades or perhaps the single issues from Midtown or MyComicShop or ebay even at 2am.

There's actually broad interest in comics now. People just don't need to visit a (sometimes unwelcoming) specialty store and buy 8 sheets of stapled paper in order to read comics.

Edited by aerischan
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Honestly this is the age of speculation and movie/tv shows. I agree there are some great writers and independent books but when your #1 maker of comics craps the bed like Marvel has been doing it hurts the entire category. 

They are dragging everyone down with their terrible quality and constant reboots. Marvel owns some of the most popular characters out there but doesn't seem to know how to use them. 

Also with independent creators abandoning projects, it has started to hurt as people are now waiting for the Trades just in case the artist doesn't finish the series. 

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12 hours ago, BishopT said:

Personally, I'm glad to be collecting right now... in terms of back issues from eras prior, you can find some great deals out there. While I've been mostly a Marvel guy my collecting life, they are pretty low in terms of my priority right now... DC is definitely mopping the floor with them right now. About 5 years ago, Marvel was putting out some of the best runs in recent memory of the big two, but that has really changed in the last two years. Then you look at Image... I don't think there's been more consistently great output from a publisher in my lifetime. Even the lesser and overlooked books hold some creative value to me (Ringside... no one cares about it, but I thought it was great... then you've got the weird stuff like 8House and Island that people don't tend to care much for, but I've never read anything quite like those books.) Then there's the great Image books that haven't jumped up in value at all, like Paper Girls, in my opinion one of the very best books on the market. Other indie publishers are putting out great stuff left and right like Albatross, Aftershock, and even Black Mask to an extent.

The spec market does terrify me, though. Especially on certain Image books (Redneck, Seven To Eternity, God Country) and even stuff from the big two (Totally Awesome Hulk #22, I'm looking dead at you). I don't really have a point to this post but to say that I can kind of see where the OP is coming from, but this is certainly not a golden age for comics in general. 

In a rather short time span i have read different stuff from

jeff lemire

jason aaron

tom king

jon hickmann

ed brubaker

greg rucka

Seth

kurt busiek

Scott snyder

a. Moores recent lovecraft stuff

+ All the above affiliated artists

You get My drift. 

And i just went wow. And thought is this a new ... something?

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm still waiting for good stuff to come out, I'm still waiting for comics to return to newsprint and not be $3.99 each with yet another "group shot" on the cover or a homage of another classic cover. You can't even find the issue number on the cover anymore on Marvels. It's all about autographs and variant covers now with modern age. People are crazy to be chasing this stuff. I know it's morbid to say but autographs aren't worth much unless the person is dead and the market is flooded with Stan Lee auto's and almost every variant cover, tanks in price. 

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I don't read as much as I used to but I really loved the New 52 Aquaman run a while back. I remember years back, they started with all sorts of different covers such as die cut covers, holograms, foil covers.. and those in general, seem to have been replaced by all these variants. It will be interesting to see where this all lands years from now. There have been some really cool books to surface from the copper/modern era though. The fact that modern print runs are much lower right now than what they were years ago will help fuel the back issue market years from now. Hopefully, we'll see these agendas dropped in place of good story telling. 

 

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