MF73 CGC 9.4 Mile High 3 3

[Readcomix]

On August 31, 2017 at 0:33 PM, telerites said:

For some reason, I thought Aquaman continued throughout as well.  Maybe I missed this if said earlier or possibly my aqua-memory has washed away.

Nope, you're right. He's one of the 5 DC heroes who it made through from GA to SA in continuous publication, albeit as a back-up/anthology title component, but so was Green Arrow.

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by Readcomix
Clarity

[atomised]

You'd think at 1.5M clink could do better than a cut and paste of the same image HA used when they sold the book in 2006 - and they even carried across the heritage trademark from 2005 at the bottom.

[G.A.tor]

21 minutes ago, atomised said:

You'd think at 1.5M clink could do better than a cut and paste of the same image HA used when they sold the book in 2006 - and they even carried across the heritage trademark from 2005 at the bottom.

That's the seller. Not clink?

[atomised]

1 hour ago, G.A.tor said:

That's the seller. Not clink?

I wasn't aware that the the Comic Book Exchange works differently than the auction side of clink (haven't tried it).  I thought clink takes possession of all books and does fresh scans but maybe they let users upload their own pics on the exchange?  I don't know.

 

[G.A.tor]

21 minutes ago, atomised said:

I wasn't aware that the the Comic Book Exchange works differently than the auction side of clink (haven't tried it).  I thought clink takes possession of all books and does fresh scans but maybe they let users upload their own pics on the exchange?  I don't know.

 

Sellers upload their pictures on the exchange and generally retain book until sold

[Dark Knight]

^ what he said

[Bomber-Bob]

17 hours ago, jason327 said:

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions on the CGC notes.

 

If CGC grades a book at unrestored 9.4....it's a 9.4, period.  Any notes, and even page-quality, are reflected in that designation.  It's NOT like "Oh, it's a 9.4....but it also has glue and cream pages.".  No.  That is all already considered/detracted from the grade.  The reason CGC notes things, including page-quality, is simply informative.  And also in-case page-quality is more valued or de-valued in the future.  But all of that is reflected in the number they give for the grade.

It's only an unrestored 9.4 if it remains in THAT slab. If it were graded today, I think the results would be different. Didn't Borock admit  to making some bad decisions on these type of books early on ? He regretted and specifically mentioned certain books. The landscape was different back then. He was playing PR to get CGC accepted into the marketplace. Now, CGC has the upper hand.  

[tth2]

5 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

Sellers upload their pictures on the exchange and generally retain book until sold

You would think Comiclink would ask people to not post scans broadcasting their competitors' names! 

[tth2]

5 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

If it were graded today, I think the results would be different. 

I don't think so.

[Bomber-Bob]

2 hours ago, tth2 said:

I don't think so.

Whatever.

[lou_fine]

8 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

It's only an unrestored 9.4 if it remains in THAT slab. If it were graded today, I think the results would be different. Didn't Borock admit  to making some bad decisions on these type of books early on ? He regretted and specifically mentioned certain books. The landscape was different back then. He was playing PR to get CGC accepted into the marketplace. Now, CGC has the upper hand.  

 

3 hours ago, tth2 said:

I don't think so.

+1

I would definitely agree with Tim if you are referring to the very small amounts of dried glue and all that.  If you take a look at the Jon Berk catalogue with books that were just graded earlier this year, you will see blue universal slabs (both pedigree and non-pedigree) scattered throughout his collection with notes for very small or tiny amounts of dried glue.

So, no change in that respect, but there clearly have been other subtle but significant changes made to their undisclosed grading standards over the years.  The biggest of which is their increased emphasis on near invisible color and non-color breaking creases and stress lines as this has clearly moved to the top of their hit list.  Not to be unexpected though once the marketplace found out that pressing was good to go since it represents not only a huge additional stream of revenue to their parent company, but also assures continual repeat business for them on the exact same book.  

Why get money only once from a book, when you can get it multiple times and also in different ways.   

Edited September 5, 2017 by lou_fine

[mwotka]

On 8/31/2017 at 6:37 PM, Mutie Fan said:

Did he actually write Church like codes on the books?!?  

I'd appreciate an answer to this question as well.

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by mwotka
double pic

[Bomber-Bob]

12 hours ago, lou_fine said:

 

+1

I would definitely agree with Tim if you are referring to the very small amounts of dried glue and all that.  If you take a look at the Jon Berk catalogue with books that were just graded earlier this year, you will see blue universal slabs (both pedigree and non-pedigree) scattered throughout his collection with notes for very small or tiny amounts of dried glue.

 

The More Fun has both Color Touch and dried glue . If that's not Restored, what is ? Previously, it was either Purple or not. Now, there are tiers for Restoration. Books like this may now fit into a tier of say Conserved. As far as how CGC would now view the glue, it depends on what it's doing. If it's holding a chip onto the book, CGC would no longer disregard that chip for grading. If it's holding onto a detached staple, the book may now get a Qualified. Just as with the tape, the underlying flaw is no longer ignored. In any case, I would never risk resubmitting that book. It's such a shame that someone worked on a beautiful book like this. You know it didn't come out of Edgar's Church's basement like that.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Bomber-Bob

[lou_fine]

18 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

It's such a shame that someone worked on a beautiful book like this. You know it didn't come out of Edgar's Church's basement like that.

Unfortunately, different times, different attitudes towards what is seen as good and what is seen as bad.

Yes, definitely a shame 30+ years after the fact, but at the time it was viewed as improving the book and adding value to it. 

In light of having gone down this darkened path once before, how about what's being done to books in today's marketplace to supposedly improve them and add value to them?  Isn't that really more of a shame as it shows we haven't really learned from the past and simply repeat our mistakes all in the name of money? 

[lou_fine]

On 8/31/2017 at 11:04 AM, sacentaur said:

As long as full disclosure is provided, I am perfectly OK with professional restoration.

+1

Yes indeed, as I was perfectly happy with being able to acquire my nice restored copy of Science 1 at a fraction of the price which an unrestored copy would have cost me and definitely never would have been able to afford.   

[Bomber-Bob]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

In light of having gone down this darkened path once before, how about what's being done to books in today's marketplace to supposedly improve them and add value to them?  Isn't that really more of a shame as it shows we haven't really learned from the past and simply repeat our mistakes all in the name of money? 

I agree. In some ways, what's being done today is worse. Years ago, few knew what was going on. Today, many know but just don't care. The stakes are higher, one tick can mean tens of thousands in valuation, brings out the worst in people.

[lou_fine]

32 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

In light of having gone down this darkened path once before, how about what's being done to books in today's marketplace to supposedly improve them and add value to them?  Isn't that really more of a shame as it shows we haven't really learned from the past and simply repeat our mistakes all in the name of money? 

I agree. In some ways, what's being done today is worse. Years ago, few knew what was going on. Today, many know but just don't care. The stakes are higher, one tick can mean tens of thousands in valuation, brings out the worst in people.

I don't really blame the collectors as much as I blame the head honchos at CGC and CCG who not only gave the green light for all of these shenanigans to take place, but seemingly encouraged it even though they were supposedly the gate watchers safeguarding the hobby for us.  They could have done this by taking a verbal hard line stance against what was going on, similar to their tough talk on micro trimming and how that practice was an absolute no-no, which would have been my preferred choice.  

But being a business entity, it's only understandable that they would only be looking out for their own best interests in terms of adopting standards and practices that would be incremental to both their top line and bottom line.  The unfortunate part is that these practices have now become so institutionalized in our marketplace that it has virtually forced almost the entire collecting base to wallow around in this same mud and muck. 

[VintageComics]

On 8/30/2017 at 5:34 PM, RareHighGrade said:

As I understand it, when CGC notes "a minor amount of color touch" on a book in a blue label, it means a minute dot of color touch that, if removed, would not affect the grade of the book.  A similar analysis would apply to "a minor amount of glue" on a blue label book.  Does anyone have a different understanding?

A better way of saying it is that the addition of glue or CT does not improve the grade and therefore is not trying to restore it to a better, previous condition.

But yes, I agree with you Peter.

[showcase22gr1959]

2 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

A better way of saying it is that the addition of glue or CT does not improve the grade and therefore is not trying to restore it to a better, previous condition.

But yes, I agree with you Peter.

At times, a small dot of glue will be make a small bindery tear less noticeable. Perhaps these small CT and glue makes the book more aesthetic.

[Bomber-Bob]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

A better way of saying it is that the addition of glue or CT does not improve the grade and therefore is not trying to restore it to a better, previous condition.

But yes, I agree with you Peter.

Why would somebody touch up a book with glue and CT if not, for the sole reason, of restoring it to a better condition ? This may be some quote Borock and CGC used at the beginning to justify the logic behind allowing it in a Blue Label but I don't see it holding up today. Let's just say the book had a non color breaking crease, holding the book to 9.4. Any improvement with CT/Glue would not be enough to overcome that crease. However, in today's environment, the crease can be pressed out. If so, now the book will improve with the CT/Glue.

Let me ask this, are there any examples of  books graded today, new label, that got a Blue labels with CT/Glue ? Graded, not reholdered.