lizards2 Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 38 minutes ago, kav said: I hate PGX do you actually buy anything from any of the grading companies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Please pass the koolaid if there is any left.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SECollector Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 2 hours ago, mosconi said: The Kirby signature was on this book's back cover. I couldn't find the image to the bc though : I actually laughed out loud with these. What a joke. Yeah, I can really imagine Ditko sitting in his apartment in NY, receiving this book and thinking "Yes Sir, with pleasure. Just let me get my sharpie!". Or was it during a con? Come on, are these guys serious? (Spoiler: No). mosconi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post shadroch Posted September 13, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted September 13, 2017 Anyone who thinks Steve B. suddenly forgot how to grade or lost his integrity when he moved to Tampa is not playing with a full deck. oldmilwaukee6er, The-Collector, Kramerica and 12 others 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkRaven Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 37 minutes ago, shadroch said: Anyone who thinks Steve B. suddenly forgot how to grade or lost his integrity when he moved to Tampa is not playing with a full deck. What does this mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumantorch Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 25 minutes ago, ParkRaven said: 1 hour ago, shadroch said: Anyone who thinks Steve B. suddenly forgot how to grade or lost his integrity when he moved to Tampa is not playing with a full deck. What does this mean? Steve Borock was President and head grader for CGC when it all began, now he's over at the other grading company - not PGX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SECollector Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 hour ago, shadroch said: Anyone who thinks Steve B. suddenly forgot how to grade or lost his integrity when he moved to Tampa is not playing with a full deck. I agree. The consensus among the community is (still) however that CGC is more credible. And at least in auctions CGC usually brings more for the grade. I wouldn't have a problem buying a high end book from the other company (NOT PGX) as long as the book looked nice for the grade. I trust their restoration check which for me is the absolutely most important factor when it comes to the grading process. The actual grade is subjective and the slabs and labels from both companies are nice. If I had however two similar books in the same grade and for the same price tag, I would go with CGC because of what I wrote in the first paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisco37 Posted September 13, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted September 13, 2017 As far as I know, nothing has changed as far as PGX perception. I've bought a total of 2 PGX books over the years (for a grand total of $55). I'd never submit to them and I'd never buy a "big book" in a PGX slab without some sort of contingency that it would be graded by CGC or Voldy for a valid resto check. Anyone that's putting PGX and Voldy in the same class has, IMO, drank too much CGC koolaid. CGC is still the top grading company and I don't think anyone will argue that. But Voldy is a valid competitor. PGX is not. Dick Pontoon, comicdonna, Bomber-Bob and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicwiz Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, chrisco37 said: Anyone that's putting PGX and Voldy in the same class has, IMO, drank too much CGC koolaid. CGC is still the top grading company and I don't think anyone will argue that. But Voldy is a valid competitor. PGX is not. I'd sooner associate overgrading with CGC, and I'll leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Zipper Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 8 hours ago, mosconi said: Hey Steve, I started a topic on their infamous Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko "signature series" book's about a year ago I did not see that, but it tells me all I need to know. In the autograph authentication business, the Lee signature is what would be referred to as a "malformed, drawn and stiff cookie-cutter fake." That along with the impossibility of multiple signatures from the J.D. Salinger of comics... ZERO chance they are authentic and any credible authenticator would realize this. This goes way beyond an honest "missed call" in my opinion. Sad that collectors would support this business because they are inexpensive, and even worse that legit auction venues would feature their slabs. The autograph hobby is littered with phony authenticators who rubber stamp fakes -- credible auction houses do not accept their certificates. mosconi, zosocane and Larryw7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicwiz Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Good seeing you back posting Steve! Mr. Zipper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadOne Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 24 minutes ago, Mr. Zipper said: Sad that collectors would support this business because they are inexpensive, and even worse that legit auction venues would feature their slabs. It's good to see you still hanging around, Steve. Mr. Zipper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicwiz Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 My point of view on this is based on anecdotal and professional experience in the area of reputation/crisis management. This is not necessarily limited in the context of PGX's history, but if you look back at the way community vigilance has evolved, a lot of the early years was reliant on seeking out activity happening on eBay. After comparing notes, and revealing fact patterns, the community would generally paint an almost complete picture of how the person was defrauding victims, and in cases where it was a known wolf in sheeps clothing, this would extend to making the connection to ID's and aliases masking and enabling known scammers to perpetrate their crimes in a new digital landscape. The Terence Leder revelations are a prime example of this, and what's important to understand with this particular talking point is eBay was (and to some extent remains) the breeding ground and point of reference to shake out these scams. So how is it that companies like PGX can remain in business despite their tainted history? Having been involved in numerous facebook groups, at the surface, it just seems people are bound to make bad choices in this hobby, and logic and sound judgement falls on deaf ears. However, when you dig deeper into the crux of the problem, the fragmentation of facebook lends to an opportunity for people who have done wrong to continue to do wrong because these are social media environments ill-suited with features and tools to dig up past dirt. I started becoming active on facebook a couple of years ago, and after a handful of attempts to warn others of PGX (and providing links to OldGuy's website) and getting into arguments with people over whether PGX was legit, I just plain stopped bothering. Add to this fact that a lot of posts get buried within hours of them being posted in an active facebook group, and that those discussions don't come up in search because of facebooks closed group and/or walled garden social networking framework, and you pretty much have to rely on open source sites like this, OldGuy's site, and past discussions on them happening on these forums and others to even have a chance of spreading awareness. It's barely worth mentioning that I've also come to the sad realization people just don't bother reading comments in facebook discussions. Probably one of the best examples of what I'm explaining above, and how it's allowed to fester in new breeding grounds like facebook concerns HALO grading (<- link to thread discussion here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Zipper Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 25 minutes ago, comicwiz said: ...it just seems people are bound to make bad choices in this hobby, and logic and sound judgement falls on deaf ears. ... and after a handful of attempts to warn others of PGX (and providing links to OldGuy's website) and getting into arguments with people over whether PGX was legit, I just plain stopped bothering. For the past six years I have been professionally authenticating space memorabilia for top auction houses, dealers and collectors. I've seen the same phenomena over and over again, and it applies to all areas of collecting. Obviously these do not apply to ALL people, but they apply to many. Collecting is emotional, and as such, collectors often do not apply logic or common-sense thinking. They WANT to believe the "stories" and the urge for denial is stronger than the urge to dig out uncomfortable truths. Many people naturally avoid conflict and tune out what they perceive as "negative" information. Often the whistleblower is more demonized than the culprit. Many collectors and dealers don't necessarily care about authenticity or accuracy -- all that matters is "will the Company X cert it?" Many people generally have low and shallow attention spans and don't have the tools to "connect the dots" Many people do not have the judgement to discern between credible information and intentional disinformation/smear sites Otherwise honest people will often defend the bad guy as a "nice guy," etc. Admitting you have been fooled by a con man is a failing in judgement that victims tend to avoid. All these factors together make a perform storm for fakes, phonies and frauds to continue to prosper. Larryw7 and Sqeggs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackenzie999 Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 hour ago, comicwiz said: My point of view on this... Good post! I guess I was lucky, when I returned to collecting in '08, the CGC forum kind of found me* and had set the standard for what I expect from a comics forum. By comparison, pretty much all other forums and FB groups I've explored seem like they are populated by mostly well-meaning but far less well-informed people. I probably belong more in one of those groups but got lucky... *Short version: CGC boardie reached out to me when he realized I was being scammed on Ebay. comicwiz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aweandlorder Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 The fact that we can plaster PGX's name all over these boards and cannot do the same with Voldi IS proof that they are not on the same level Mr. Zipper, icefires, Pirate and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoMan Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Thanks Comicwiz and Mr. Zipper! Great posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Zipper Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 32 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said: The fact that we can plaster PGX's name all over these boards and cannot do the same with Voldi IS proof that they are not on the same level Right. Home Depot doesn't want any positive PR for Lowes. But they probably don't care about competition from Handyman Harry who tools around town in his rusted out 92 pickup... cigarette pack rolled up in his short sleeve and mullet blowing in the wind. Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhips Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) Does this answer your question? https://www.ebay.com/itm/253123129312 Edit: Apparently the ebay link doesn't work. It was a Batman 160 PGX 6.0 that had taken quite a bath. Edited September 13, 2017 by crazyhips Additional info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot6 Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 21 minutes ago, crazyhips1 said: Does this answer your question? https://www.ebay.com/itm/253123129312 Edit: Apparently the ebay link doesn't work. It was a Batman 160 PGX 6.0 that had taken quite a bath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
