Hamlet Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I was at a small, local convention last weekend, and I noticed one of the regular dealers had a nice looking raw Archie 1 on his wall. I said something along the lines of "Holy cow, is that an Archie 1". He pulled it down and took it out and started showing it to me and a couple of other people who were nearby. It was a nice looking book (very rough guess 4.0 with nice pages, which for that book is pretty darn nice). One of the other dealers watching chimed in that it looked like the staple had been replaced. I think he was probably right, since it was very bright and shiny, and there was a tiny bit of discoloration at the centerfold that seemed like it would have had to come from somewhere else, but restoration is not something I am particularly knowledgeable about, so who knows. How do people feel about the other dealer chiming in? I think it is always good to have people keeping an eye out for restoration so that people know what they have or are buying, but I can see it annoying the first dealer to have someone talking down their book. It's not like anyone in the room was real likely to buy a raw Archie 1 regardless ( or a certified one for that matter ), but I could see it creating hard feelings between dealers. Does anyone have an strong feelings about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightsofold Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Hamlet said: I was at a small, local convention last weekend, and I noticed one of the regular dealers had a nice looking raw Archie 1 on his wall. I said something along the lines of "Holy cow, is that an Archie 1". He pulled it down and took it out and started showing it to me and a couple of other people who were nearby. It was a nice looking book (very rough guess 4.0 with nice pages, which for that book is pretty darn nice). One of the other dealers watching chimed in that it looked like the staple had been replaced. I think he was probably right, since it was very bright and shiny, and there was a tiny bit of discoloration at the centerfold that seemed like it would have had to come from somewhere else, but restoration is not something I am particularly knowledgeable about, so who knows. How do people feel about the other dealer chiming in? I think it is always good to have people keeping an eye out for restoration so that people know what they have or are buying, but I can see it annoying the first dealer to have someone talking down their book. It's not like anyone in the room was real likely to buy a raw Archie 1 regardless ( or a certified one for that matter ), but I could see it creating hard feelings between dealers. Does anyone have an strong feelings about this? I'd guess if he pointed out the possible restoration, then they're already are well aquatinted with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hamlet said: I was at a small, local convention last weekend, and I noticed one of the regular dealers had a nice looking raw Archie 1 on his wall. I said something along the lines of "Holy cow, is that an Archie 1". He pulled it down and took it out and started showing it to me and a couple of other people who were nearby. It was a nice looking book (very rough guess 4.0 with nice pages, which for that book is pretty darn nice). One of the other dealers watching chimed in that it looked like the staple had been replaced. I think he was probably right, since it was very bright and shiny, and there was a tiny bit of discoloration at the centerfold that seemed like it would have had to come from somewhere else, but restoration is not something I am particularly knowledgeable about, so who knows. How do people feel about the other dealer chiming in? I think it is always good to have people keeping an eye out for restoration so that people know what they have or are buying, but I can see it annoying the first dealer to have someone talking down their book. It's not like anyone in the room was real likely to buy a raw Archie 1 regardless ( or a certified one for that matter ), but I could see it creating hard feelings between dealers. Does anyone have an strong feelings about this? How did the dealer who owned the book react? As a potential buyer of the book, obviously I would appreciate the head's up. As an honest seller of the book, I would also appreciate the observation so that I didn't inadvertently take advantage of a buyer and so that I would have a chance to go back to whoever I bought the book from if I didn't know it was restored when I bought it. jimjum12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamlet Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Sqeggs said: How did the dealer who owned the book react? As a potential buyer of the book, obviously I would appreciate the head's up. As an honest seller of the book, I would also appreciate the observation so that I didn't inadvertently take advantage of a buyer and so that I would have a chance to go back to whoever I bought the book from if I didn't know it was restored when I bought it. He was fine with it. He seemed a tiny bit annoyed, but I think that was simply because he obviously didn't think that there was any restoration or he would have called it out initially. Everyone pretty much agreed that he was probably best off submitting the book and sending it to one of the auction houses. I got the impression that he was really just showing the book off, since it was not a venue where a book like that was likely to change hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Actually, is staple replacement even considered to be Restoration anymore or is it considered to be Conservation now? If you look at CGC's Grading Scale, it appears to fall under both of these categories. So, I am not sure how they would decide whether it is Restoration or just Conservation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, lou_fine said: Actually, is staple replacement even considered to be Restoration anymore or is it considered to be Conservation now? If you look at CGC's Grading Scale, it appears to fall under both of these categories. So, I am not sure how they would decide whether it is Restoration or just Conservation? Either way a replaced staple(s) won't get a blue label. Edited September 13, 2017 by Primetime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Primetime said: 1 hour ago, lou_fine said: Actually, is staple replacement even considered to be Restoration anymore or is it considered to be Conservation now? If you look at CGC's Grading Scale, it appears to fall under both of these categories. So, I am not sure how they would decide whether it is Restoration or just Conservation? Either way it won't get a blue label. Oh yes, it will if it's a Conserved grade which will get you the same Universal blue colour label, but with a gray Universal line on top instead of the blue Universal line on top if it was completely unrestored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, lou_fine said: Oh yes, it will if it's a Conserved grade which will get you the same Universal blue colour label, but with a gray Universal line on top instead of the blue Universal line on top if it was completely unrestored. So many label fashions these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Surfer Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) How about undisclosed restoration yet the book are sold as if they were not restored? A certain big New York based dealer stung me twice in the past year. I was told that next time I should ask for him to personally review any raw books before I make a purchase [not likely going to happen again]. I didn't flat out ask for a refund up front as I wanted to see if they stood behind their product but of course they didn't because its all a big scam, they got my money already. Their excuse was to throw their staff under the bus, point to the small print on their refund policy in case they missed something during their "initial" review of the books [GA issue trimmed on all three sides! If you put it up against a similar GA issue it was about as obvious as a kick in the head]. Finally, they offered to buy me dinner next time I was in town. Edited September 13, 2017 by Silver Surfer Larryw7, sacentaur and porcupine48 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Primetime said: So many label fashions these days Yes indeed, as purple and green use to be 2 of my favorite colours as opposed to that cold and dreary blue before the dums dums at CGC came up with all of their silly coloured labels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterio Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Restored or conserved, that book with just a staple replacement would be my kind of book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 35 minutes ago, Silver Surfer said: How about undisclosed restoration yet the book are sold as if they were not restored? A certain big New York based dealer stung me twice in the past year. I was told that next time I should ask for him to personally review any raw books before I make a purchase [not likely going to happen again]. I didn't flat out ask for a refund up front as I wanted to see if they stood behind their product but of course they didn't because its all a big scam, they got my money already. Their excuse was to throw their staff under the bus, point to the small print on their refund policy in case they missed something during their "initial" review of the books [GA issue trimmed on all three sides! If you put it up against a similar GA issue it was about as obvious as a kick in the head]. Finally, they offered to buy me dinner next time I was in town. Three 20-pound lobsters, washed down with a bottle of Moet & Chandon Dom Perignon Charles & Diana 1961? Larryw7 and ThothAmon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryw7 Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 37 minutes ago, Silver Surfer said: How about undisclosed restoration yet the book are sold as if they were not restored? A certain big New York based dealer stung me twice in the past year. I was told that next time I should ask for him to personally review any raw books before I make a purchase [not likely going to happen again]. I didn't flat out ask for a refund up front as I wanted to see if they stood behind their product but of course they didn't because its all a big scam, they got my money already. Their excuse was to throw their staff under the bus, point to the small print on their refund policy in case they missed something during their "initial" review of the books [GA issue trimmed on all three sides! If you put it up against a similar GA issue it was about as obvious as a kick in the head]. Finally, they offered to buy me dinner next time I was in town. That's pretty scummy behaviour. They should have given you a refund, or at least reimbursed you in some way. Dinner doesn't quite cut it. sacentaur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Surfer Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Sqeggs said: Three 20-pound lobsters, washed down with a bottle of Moet & Chandon Dom Perignon Charles & Diana 1961?. It was almost $8k worth of books so what year would the Dom vintage be? Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
143ksk Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Curious as to which dealer it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Surfer Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, 143ksk said: Curious as to which dealer it was... Take a guess, I'm betting you will get it the first time but I'm also betting that you won't be surprised or shocked either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 5 hours ago, Hamlet said: I was at a small, local convention last weekend, and I noticed one of the regular dealers had a nice looking raw Archie 1 on his wall. I said something along the lines of "Holy cow, is that an Archie 1". He pulled it down and took it out and started showing it to me and a couple of other people who were nearby. It was a nice looking book (very rough guess 4.0 with nice pages, which for that book is pretty darn nice). One of the other dealers watching chimed in that it looked like the staple had been replaced. I think he was probably right, since it was very bright and shiny, and there was a tiny bit of discoloration at the centerfold that seemed like it would have had to come from somewhere else, but restoration is not something I am particularly knowledgeable about, so who knows. How do people feel about the other dealer chiming in? I think it is always good to have people keeping an eye out for restoration so that people know what they have or are buying, but I can see it annoying the first dealer to have someone talking down their book. It's not like anyone in the room was real likely to buy a raw Archie 1 regardless ( or a certified one for that matter ), but I could see it creating hard feelings between dealers. Does anyone have an strong feelings about this? I looked at the book as well, and was seriously considering purchasing it. He thought that it was unrestored, but that was not the case. It had reinforcement at the spine and the first wrap was glued to the cover. Also as you mentioned the staple was likely replaced too. I suggested he slab it first then offer it for sale as there could be more work I didn't spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
143ksk Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 15 minutes ago, Silver Surfer said: Take a guess, I'm betting you will get it the first time but I'm also betting that you won't be surprised or shocked either. I'm having a hard time imagining any of the dealers who set up at that sort of show having an Archie 1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Surfer Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I'm curious to know who this dealer was with the Archie #1 because if its the same operation then you can pretty much guarantee that it has undisclosed restoration or whatever you want to call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Surfer Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) On 9/13/2017 at 2:14 PM, Larryw7 said: That's pretty scummy behaviour. They should have given you a refund, or at least reimbursed you in some way. Dinner doesn't quite cut it. Well I heard stories for years but always had good dealings with them until this happened, and then it happened again a few months later. Speaking of dinner, I am hungry. Edited September 15, 2017 by Silver Surfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
