Dealer Etiquette on pointing out Restoration 1 1

[sacentaur]

3 hours ago, Silver Surfer said:

How about undisclosed restoration yet the book are sold as if they were not restored?  A certain big New York based dealer stung me twice in the past year. I was told that next time I should ask for him to personally review any raw books before I make a purchase [not likely going to happen again]. I didn't flat out ask for a refund up front as I wanted to see if they stood behind their product but of course they didn't because its all a big scam, they got my money already.  Their excuse was to throw their staff under the bus, point to the small print on their refund policy in case they missed something during their "initial" review of the books [GA issue trimmed on all three sides! If you put it up against a similar GA issue it was about as obvious as a kick in the head]. Finally, they offered to buy me dinner next time I was in town.  

METROPOLIS (par for the course)   

[thehumantorch]

51 minutes ago, Silver Surfer said:

1 hour ago, 143ksk said:

Curious as to which dealer it was...

Take a guess, I'm betting you will get it the first time but I'm also betting that you won't be surprised or shocked either. 

Not hard to guess  

[Electron]

1 hour ago, 143ksk said:

Curious as to which dealer it was...

PM sent

[Hamlet]

53 minutes ago, 143ksk said:

I'm having a hard time imagining any of the dealers who set up at that sort of show having an Archie 1...

I don't remember his name, but he's at that show all the time.  He's an older guy with glasses and thinning hair ( like that narrows it down ? )  He's a nice guy and I buy a few books here and there from him.

I definitely thought of you when I saw that book.

I was honestly stunned that he would bring a book that big to that venue.  

[Electron]

56 minutes ago, Silver Surfer said:

I'm curious to know who this dealer was with the Archie #1 because if its the same operation then you can pretty much guarantee that it has undisclosed restoration or whatever you want to call it. 

It is not. Just a local small time dealer.

[Hamlet]

57 minutes ago, Silver Surfer said:

I'm curious to know who this dealer was with the Archie #1 because if its the same operation then you can pretty much guarantee that it has undisclosed restoration or whatever you want to call it. 

The guy with the Archie #1 is a small local dealer here in the Midwest.  I don't get the impression that he is someone who would knowingly sell a book with restoration.  However, I also don't have any idea whether he knows how to spot restoration.  I am not someone who knows much about restoration beyond checking for bleedthru from a sharpie color touch job.

Regardless, there is no way I would ever buy a book that big raw.  Actually there is no way I would ever buy a book that big period ?

[Randall Dowling]

In response to the question posted by the OP, my thoughts are as follows:

-if you're going to comment about another dealers stock, you had best be certain and factual in anything you say.  To make such a statement when you have a hunch is a shaky move and likely to make a lot of people angry.  Rightfully so.

-If you do have a hunch but are not sure about restoration, I wouldn't say anything in front of or to customers but rather wait for an opportunity and discretely share it with the dealer as heads up so he doesn't sell a book with undisclosed restoration and nobody wants to be that guy.

-If you are certain of work done and can recognize obvious and identifiable signs of restoration, then I think you have an obligation to say something to everyone there and share your knowledge of such things.  When I set up at shows, if I had a high dollar book and somebody correctly pointed out restoration, I wouldn't be upset with them, I'd be upset that I didn't recognize it myself and possibly disappointed in whoever sold it to me as unrestored.  But I wouldn't be upset with the guy educating me.

Those are my thoughts.

[Randall Dowling]

Just now, Hamlet said:

Regardless, there is no way I would ever buy a book that big raw.  Actually there is no way I would ever buy a book that big period ?

If the price was right and you knew you could make money on it, I'm thinking you might...  you just might. 

[Larryw7]

The same dealer that Peter is referring to sold me a Superman 76 that was advertised as unrestored. It turned out to be trimmed. I don't know if anything nefarious is going on, or that these guys don't even look at their books before they put them up for sale, but something has to change.

[MrBedrock]

If someone hands me a book at a show they are generally trying to get my opinion on if I would buy it. If I see restoration they will get my opinion on that too. Not really any different than when someone who can't spot resto walks in the store trying to sell books. I have learned not to say anything unless I am certain.

[Silver Surfer]

20 minutes ago, Larryw7 said:

The same dealer that Peter is referring to sold me a Superman 76 that was advertised as unrestored. It turned out to be trimmed. I don't know if anything nefarious is going on, or that these guys don't even look at their books before they put them up for sale, but something has to change.

Well given the books I purchased [one was sold as an OO book from a collection that surfaced a few years earlier] and given their track record I highly doubt that they were unaware of at least a potential issue. The MMC book I bought was so blatantly obvious for a veteran dealer that there was no excuse for proclaiming it to be "unrestored". More importantly, they never stood behind their product, just hid behind a bunch of excuses which showed their true colors. 

[Larryw7]

That throws a different light on things. I doubt most original collection books would be trimmed. Unless it was a manufacturing error and the CGC misinterpreted it.

 

[thehumantorch]

6 hours ago, Larryw7 said:

The same dealer that Peter is referring to sold me a Superman 76 that was advertised as unrestored. It turned out to be trimmed. I don't know if anything nefarious is going on, or that these guys don't even look at their books before they put them up for sale, but something has to change.

Larry, as I've said in other threads, it's a minefield out there.  

Overgrading, trimming and color touch have been common for a long time.  There's a ton of books with undisclosed restoration.  Best defense it to learn everything we can about grading and restoration and look carefully before buying.

[Larryw7]

2 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

Larry, as I've said in other threads, it's a minefield out there.  

Overgrading, trimming and color touch have been common for a long time.  There's a ton of books with undisclosed restoration.  Best defense it to learn everything we can about grading and restoration and look carefully before buying.

Very true. Also we should only buy from dealers we know to be reputable.

 

[tth2]

In my list of things that I'm concerned about, "comic dealer's feelings being hurt" ranks somewhere around #4,637,243. 

[pemart1966]

On 2017-09-13 at 8:02 PM, Silver Surfer said:

Well I heard stories for years but always had good dealings with them until this happened, and then a happened again a few months later. Speaking of dinner, I am hungry.

Anyone who conducts business in this manner should be outed immediately.  It then allows anyone dealing with them or contemplating dealing with them to go in with eyes wide open.

Back to the original question:  the more eyes on a book the better IMO

Edited September 15, 2017 by pemart1966

[Silver Surfer]

Well it was Metropolis and more specifically Vinnie. He did offer to put one of my books in the CC auction and waive the assignment cost but the difference between the market value of a fully trimmed book vs one that it is not was much more than the waiver of a stupid 10% commission. He was adamant that the book was still worth what I paid for it but if that was the case maybe he should have took it back an put it in his own CC auction. Win, win! 

[Larryw7]

Trimmed books are anathema to most collectors. There's no way that MM 9 was worth what you paid.

[Sqeggs]

2 hours ago, Silver Surfer said:

Well it was Metropolis and more specifically Vinnie. He did offer to put one of my books in the CC auction and waive the assignment cost but the difference between the market value of a fully trimmed book vs one that it is not was much more than the waiver of a stupid 10% commission. He was adamant that the book was still worth what I paid for it but if that was the case maybe he should have took it back an put it in his own CC auction. Win, win! 

I guess you could have called him on it by making that the book they would waive the commission on.  The outcome of the auction would indicate how much their missing the resto had cost you. 

[Silver Surfer]

1 hour ago, Sqeggs said:

I guess you could have called him on it by making that the book they would waive the commission on.  The outcome of the auction would indicate how much their missing the resto had cost you. 

A similar copy [but with only one side that was trimmed and graded] sold for about $1,500 less in a recent Heritage auction and I pointed that out when he suggested it was worth every penny I paid for it.    I have since sold the book and took a haircut in doing so but I wasn't about to give them the satisfaction of burning me for a third time, I just wanted to get the stink of this whole episode off of me.