Purchasing Raw vs. Slabbed at a Convention 1 1

[drotto]

I am going to NYCC in a few weeks, and was considering spending my stockpiled comic buying funds on some key books.  For the most part I am looking to pick up recognized, established keys mainly Silver or Bronze age books.  I am a decent grader and willing to haggle and even trade.  I am worried about getting into these more sought after books and missing things like restoration, etc.  Is it generally better at shows to by slabbed issues vs. raw books?  What are the pros ans cons of getting raw vs. slabbed in that setting?

[shadroch]

If you are buying books for big bucks, any dealer worth his salt will offer a restoration warranty, but that means the expense of having it slabbed. 

A slabbed book that is in the price of a raw book plus slabbing fees seems pretty reasonable.  I don't understand dealers that add hundreds to a books price because they slabbed it. 

If you want to keep it raw, deal with the pros. Any dealer that's on here is a good place to start. I started to name names, but I'm afraid I'll leave someone off. 

[revat]

I will say that buying slabbed books is heavier and bulkier to carry around.  That can add up after a few books or a few thousand steps

[lizards2]

If you can't detect most restoration, I would stick to slabbed books.

[drotto]

13 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

If you can't detect most restoration, I would stick to slabbed books.

I have been trying to learn to spot restoration.  I have picked up color touch in the past on eBay photos (at least people here agreed with me), and am familiar with tecniques I need to watch for.  I have purchased a few high value books, and not gotten burned....... yet.  But when I am considering branching into getting books worth several thousand it becomes more of an issue.

[ADAMANTIUM]

Raw is less expensive but the higher end books will most likely be slabbed anyway, which will take away your choice anyway. I'd buy slabbed if your going after key's, but there are too many factors to weigh to say outright which you should go with.

Mainly when you get there weigh each purchase separately.

If carrying a mix is too strenuous then go with what your budget will allow, but obviously there will be must have deals to be made both raw and slabbed. Slabbed will be too hard to find in the grade you'll want at the price you want....etc a lot to consider 

[lizards2]

1 minute ago, drotto said:

18 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

If you can't detect most restoration, I would stick to slabbed books.

I have been trying to learn to spot restoration.  I have picked up color touch in the past on eBay photos (at least people here agreed with me), and am familiar with tecniques I need to watch for.  I have purchased a few high value books, and not gotten burned....... yet.  But when I am considering branching into getting books worth several thousand it becomes more of an issue.

I agree there is somewhat of an art to it, and not everyone has the eye.  If it's popping to you in photos/scans, you probably do have the eye.  To me, most of it pops because it a) looks to good to be true, or b) it doesn't look right.  I'll admit I get a few false positives on b.

If you don't have a jeweler's loupe yet, I would recommend this minimal investment as soon as possible.

 

[Westy Steve]

8 hours ago, lizards2 said:

I agree there is somewhat of an art to it, and not everyone has the eye.  If it's popping to you in photos/scans, you probably do have the eye.  To me, most of it pops because it a) looks to good to be true, or b) it doesn't look right.  I'll admit I get a few false positives on b.

If you don't have a jeweler's loupe yet, I would recommend this minimal investment as soon as possible.

 

A few years ago my daughter found a pen light that emits black light.  It's a kid's toy used to read invisible ink made out of lemon juice.  I find it indispensable and had her buy a couple more at her school book fair.  You need a light, or lights, that will reflect light different than the normal white light spectrum.  A paint or marker designed to fool the eye in normal white light might not blend well under another color light and can therefore be easily spotted.  Of course you also need to try to look through the covers (sort of like using a light box) to see differences in paper thickness.  And then there is the bleed through.  The hardest thing to see, IMHO, are tear seals, and that's why a loupe is important.

[namisgr]

Buying from highly reputable experienced dealers lessens the risk of your books having undisclosed restoration.

Personally, I love the look of comics when they're unslabbed, and like being able to read them.  They're mostly what I've bought in the last 20+ years of conventions.  With lots of dealers to choose from, a collector can look for issues on their want list that have exceptionally sweet eye appeal.

Edited September 15, 2017 by namisgr

[90sChild]

When it comes to big keys there is no sense in buying raw because 

1. It wont save you money. all dealers should know exactly what any key is worth and in fact I see people pricing their raws at the same price as slabbed copies all the time.  

2.  You introduce the risk of someone grading it wrong or missing some defect in the book and you can only lose money in that situation.

3. If you need to negotiate you can pull up GPA or gocollect.com price data and show them exactly what that book has been selling for.  

 

[chrisco37]

I've bought raw and slabbed at shows.   Usually, on the higher $$$ books I prefer to buy them slabbed (chances are, I've read it in a reprint already).  As others have said, if buying raw work something out with the dealer with regards to resto.  Slabbing cost should be at your expense though. 

When I bought my FF5, I made an agreement that I would slab the book and if it came back restored I would have my money refunded (less slabbing costs and return shipping back to dealer).  Think of it as an "insurance policy" on the book.   

[1Cool]

People typically pay the high price to go to a big Con like NYCC in order to be able to inspect in hand a lot of books including some high end keys.  Slabs take up a large amount of room on a dealer's wall so most dealers I've seen have to bump up slab prices a bit (or a lot) to make it worthwhile to bring them and showcase them.  I find you will almost always do better price wise to buy slabs online via the numerous auctions compared to buying them at a Con. 

[badback83]

Personally, I prefer slabbed books.  I am willing to pay a little bit more for a CGC copy of a book I want, especially when it's in hand and I can take it home that day.  If I can buy it slabbed from the start, I eliminate having to send it in.  I guess it's more of a convenience factor for me.  

[Michelangelo]

You likely won't get a great deal at a con if you're buying a big key slabbed book.

There's a better chance at getting a good deal buying raw books; because it has yet to be graded and there is that level of uncertainty. 

In general, I like buying high value books slabbed to eliminate the risk of being burned

[gregreece]

On 9/15/2017 at 8:25 AM, 1Cool said:

People typically pay the high price to go to a big Con like NYCC in order to be able to inspect in hand a lot of books including some high end keys.  Slabs take up a large amount of room on a dealer's wall so most dealers I've seen have to bump up slab prices a bit (or a lot) to make it worthwhile to bring them and showcase them.  I find you will almost always do better price wise to buy slabs online via the numerous auctions compared to buying them at a Con. 

I know you use the word most but I can't think of any reputable full time dealer that changes their pricing to make up for the cost of a convention. Convention costs are a part of running a business. Anything in our inventory can be had for the exact same price on line (directly from our site. Ebay and other 3rd party sites obviously have their inherent costs figured into each item) or at a show. I believe this to be true for the vast majority of our competition. Even if someone thought it worth his/her while, I can't fathom the time it would take to reprice product. Most of us can barely keep up with new product coming in the door! While important, sales at a trade show aren't the only reason to set up and are not the be all/end all as to whether we deem a show successful. Building our brand, taking consignments, promoting our website, making buys and networking are all also very important factors at any given show. Short version: You can get the same deal from us in person at any show, or dealing with us directly on line. Best to all, Greg

[lizards2]

On 9/16/2017 at 4:44 PM, gregreece said:

On 9/15/2017 at 5:25 AM, 1Cool said:

People typically pay the high price to go to a big Con like NYCC in order to be able to inspect in hand a lot of books including some high end keys.  Slabs take up a large amount of room on a dealer's wall so most dealers I've seen have to bump up slab prices a bit (or a lot) to make it worthwhile to bring them and showcase them.  I find you will almost always do better price wise to buy slabs online via the numerous auctions compared to buying them at a Con. 

I know you use the word most but I can't think of any reputable full time dealer that changes their pricing to make up for the cost of a convention. Convention costs are a part of running a business. Anything in our inventory can be had for the exact same price on line (directly from our site. Ebay and other 3rd party sites obviously have their inherent costs figured into each item) or at a show. I believe this to be true for the vast majority of our competition. Even if someone thought it worth his/her while, I can't fathom the time it would take to reprice product. Most of us can barely keep up with new product coming in the door! While important, sales at a trade show aren't the only reason to set up and are not the be all/end all as to whether we deem a show successful. Building our brand, taking consignments, promoting our website, making buys and networking are all also very important factors at any given show. Short version: You can get the same deal from us in person at any show, or dealing with us directly on line. Best to all, Greg

It seems like many eBay dealers who also have their own websites bump up the price on their eBay offered slabs, so 1Cool's proposition seems quite plausible.  I know this is not the same situation, but it seems similar enough to warrant consideration.

[shadroch]

4 hours ago, lizards2 said:

It seems like many eBay dealers who also have their own websites bump up the price on their eBay offered slabs, so 1Cool's proposition seems quite plausible.  I know this is not the same situation, but it seems similar enough to warrant consideration.

I pay ebay 13% of the sale so of course I'm going to bump up the price.

[1Cool]

4 hours ago, shadroch said:

I pay ebay 13% of the sale so of course I'm going to bump up the price.

Make sense to me.  I guess I should have said some dealers have to bump up their prices to account for the extra expense involved with setting up at big shows (or selling on e-bay for that matter).  Now if you have your business model set to have your price include the e-bay/pay paypal fees and the Con fees are equal then I can see why prices would be constant.  If you maintain the same cost on your own websites (to attract people to buy from you direct) then I still contend it really does not make sense to pay the large sum of money to get tickets to NYCC is you intend on buying only slabbed books (especially from a major vendor).  The books are visible on their websites in crystal clear scans so why would you not just order it online and avoid the crowds?  And I'd think a dealer would be more motivated to agree to a nice discount on a major purchase if the book is purchased directly from their website compared to trying to work out a deal in a busy Con situation.  Then again - cash is king.

[gregreece]

Make sense to me.  I guess I should have said some dealers have to bump up their prices to account for the extra expense involved with setting up at big shows (or selling on e-bay for that matter).  Now if you have your business model set to have your price include the e-bay/pay paypal fees and the Con fees are equal then I can see why prices would be constant.  If you maintain the same cost on your own websites (to attract people to buy from you direct) then I still contend it really does not make sense to pay the large sum of money to get tickets to NYCC is you intend on buying only slabbed books (especially from a major vendor).  The books are visible on their websites in crystal clear scans so why would you not just order it online and avoid the crowds?  And I'd think a dealer would be more motivated to agree to a nice discount on a major purchase if the book is purchased directly from their website compared to trying to work out a deal in a busy Con situation.  Then again - cash is king.

 

1) We have many customers who buy 100% of their books in person. They would not even consider a mail order transaction as they want to inspect the book(s) in hand. 

 

2) Throughout the course of a year, costs our costs whether it be booth rental, hotels, meals, credit card/paypal fees (so yes cash will get you a better price on a slightly better price than credit card/paypal on an individual transaction). But when it's all said and done, you can negotiate the same price from us at a show or on-line and I suspect that's the case with the vast majority of dealers.

[blazingbob]

There are also customers who order off my website and pick up their books at the convention to save on shipping costs.  Now while that is great for the customer I do still absorb the cost of setting up at the show.  There are still a lot of customers out there who do not "search the web" and are new to my website.  I agree with Greg that there are a lot of customers who want to look at the books in person and buy at a show.  

With all the complaining about convention costs I really wonder why many who want to buy and sell books DON'T invest in their business.  You go to shows to network,  you go to shows to learn,  you observe,  you pick up things you would do and things you wouldn't by observing what others are doing.  Pick the best attributes from the good sellers and learn what not to do from the bad.  Network with sellers because in this business the hardest part is to find the right books at the right price.  If you think can shortcut your way to the top you are sadly mistaken.