Framing - Museum Glass vs Museum Plexi 0

[RabidFerret]

Howdy gang!

I know there are a few threads buried on here about framing but none of them seemed to hit on my concerns, so I wanted to reach out.

I got a new piece that is an absurd 30"x40" in size. It's painted with a bottom layer of gesso, layered with acrylic airbrush and colored pencil. 

It was a bit pricey so I want to frame it as best I can. 

The artist mentioned they always use museum plexiglass when they frame, in part because they live in California where they don't want things shattering after an earthquake.

I'm not too concerned with earthquakes, but I am nervous that at that size glass itself is more likely to break from normal movement(or if a bad wall anchor gives unexpectedly since this will weigh a ton).

The price difference is $250 for museum glass vs $750 for museum plexi.

It seems like both types provide good protection for the art, but I'm curious about real world experience.

Has anyone else framed something this big with either glass or plexi, and if so, were there problems over time? Has anyone used museum plexi and found it worth the 3x price?

Thanks for any thoughts:)

-j

 

[Sooners151]

I have a piece that is 29" x 60" framed in museum glass.  Have no issues and stable on the wall with two anchor points.

[MagnusX]

To everyone posting;
pictures will be appreciated..!

[Mr. Machismo]

Museum glass at that size isn't an issue, at all. If you were in California, then I'd recommend plexi for the same reason he mentioned. But since it's not an issue, go museum glass. 

[rocket1312]

Spinning off from this, does anyone have a reliable online source for museum glass and/or other comparable plexi products?  I like to do my own framing, but I've had a hard time sorting through the litany of products out there.  Given the expense, I'm not keen to order stuff blind just to see what exactly people are selling.

[delekkerste]

I recently had a major home renovation done that required moving all my art out temporarily.  One box fell over during the (temporary) move and the glass completely shattered on one piece (I bought that one framed, and mistakenly thought it was plexi and not glass).  Glass shards came within millimeters of damaging the piece.  In fact, the mat ended up scraped/damaged, but the piece itself survived intact - but just barely.  I was very, very lucky.

I've only ever gotten plexi for my framed art before (the only glass I have is from pieces that I bought already framed).  And, after this experience, I can tell you that I will never deviate from getting plexi on any future framing jobs.  I also once owned a piece that was damaged before I ever owned it (I no longer have it).  It had been framed in glass and hanging on the wall.  The owner and his (eventual ex-)wife got into a heated argument, she threw something at the painting, it fell, the glass broke, the piece got damaged.  

Bottom line:  earthquakes are not the only risk to your glass-framed pieces.

[RabidFerret]

3 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I recently had a major home renovation done that required moving all my art out temporarily.  One box fell over during the (temporary) move and the glass completely shattered on one piece (I bought that one framed, and mistakenly thought it was plexi and not glass).  Glass shards came within millimeters of damaging the piece.  In fact, the mat ended up scraped/damaged, but the piece itself survived intact - but just barely.  I was very, very lucky.

I've only ever gotten plexi for my framed art before (the only glass I have is from pieces that I bought already framed).  And, after this experience, I can tell you that I will never deviate from getting plexi on any future framing jobs.  I also once owned a piece that was damaged before I ever owned it (I no longer have it).  It had been framed in glass and hanging on the wall.  The owner and his (eventual ex-)wife got into a heated argument, she threw something at the painting, it fell, the glass broke, the piece got damaged.  

Bottom line:  earthquakes are not the only risk to your glass-framed pieces.

Excellent!! This is the kinda insight I was after(the fail stories more than the success ones). I'm definitely concerned about anything that could damage the piece, and I never even considered violent arguments as a risk. 

And the fact that you go with plexi in the first place is good to know. I feel like it's an expensive, but potentially worthwhile, precaution.

Thanks!

[PhilipB2k17]

1 hour ago, RabidFerret said:

Howdy gang!

I know there are a few threads buried on here about framing but none of them seemed to hit on my concerns, so I wanted to reach out.

I got a new piece that is an absurd 30"x40" in size. It's painted with a bottom layer of gesso, layered with acrylic airbrush and colored pencil. 

It was a bit pricey so I want to frame it as best I can. 

The artist mentioned they always use museum plexiglass when they frame, in part because they live in California where they don't want things shattering after an earthquake.

I'm not too concerned with earthquakes, but I am nervous that at that size glass itself is more likely to break from normal movement(or if a bad wall anchor gives unexpectedly since this will weigh a ton).

The price difference is $250 for museum glass vs $750 for museum plexi.

It seems like both types provide good protection for the art, but I'm curious about real world experience.

Has anyone else framed something this big with either glass or plexi, and if so, were there problems over time? Has anyone used museum plexi and found it worth the 3x price?

Thanks for any thoughts:)

-j

 

Museum Glass is cheaper, and doesn't scratch. But, at that size, Plexiglass is much lighter and more durable (i.e.it won't break). Also, you can't be glass as far as how it shows off the art. You have to buy top of the line plexiglass to get close. Plexiglass does have a susceptibility of accumulating scratches over time. And, its uncertain how the newest plexiglass holds up long term. You don't have to worry about glass clouding up over time. But, for a bigger piece glass is much heaver, and as Gene pointed out, you run the risk with glass of it breaking and damaging your art. With a larger art piece, you really need to make sure its anchored properly in the wall if you frame it with glass.

[vodou]

6 hours ago, delekkerste said:

I recently had a major home renovation done that required moving all my art out temporarily.  One box fell over during the (temporary) move and the glass completely shattered on one piece (I bought that one framed, and mistakenly thought it was plexi and not glass).  Glass shards came within millimeters of damaging the piece.  In fact, the mat ended up scraped/damaged, but the piece itself survived intact - but just barely.  I was very, very lucky.

I've only ever gotten plexi for my framed art before (the only glass I have is from pieces that I bought already framed).  And, after this experience, I can tell you that I will never deviate from getting plexi on any future framing jobs.  I also once owned a piece that was damaged before I ever owned it (I no longer have it).  It had been framed in glass and hanging on the wall.  The owner and his (eventual ex-)wife got into a heated argument, she threw something at the painting, it fell, the glass broke, the piece got damaged.  

Bottom line:  earthquakes are not the only risk to your glass-framed pieces.

Didn't you have a crusty Bolland at one point too? So now it's at least twice. Lesson then, as now, remains: Dump other people's frame solutions -arrived at when everything was worth a lot less- the minute they come in the door. Too many bad decisions and surprises, along with knock-on damage to be found by waiting. Or is that $150 to re-frame what's killing it for you?

[delekkerste]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

Didn't you have a crusty Bolland at one point too? So now it's at least twice. Lesson then, as now, remains: Dump other people's frame solutions -arrived at when everything was worth a lot less- the minute they come in the door. Too many bad decisions and surprises, along with knock-on damage to be found by waiting. Or is that $150 to re-frame what's killing it for you?

This piece was beautifully and expensively framed by the previous owner.  As I thought it was plexi and not glass (didn't feel heavy enough to be glass, but maybe because it was high-end glass), I didn't see any reason to reframe it. 

$150 does not get you to first base with my frame jobs.  

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by delekkerste

[BCarter27]

14 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

$150 does not get you to first base with my frame jobs.  

Not the best post to skim read quickly. I did a double-take!

 

Always swap glass for plexi. It just isn't worth the grief! I also have sellers remove the glass from their framed pieces before shipment. I've gotten boxes of glass shards and shredded paper before.

Check around online... $750 seems like a LOT for even museum plexi.

[mxs7]

Decades ago I was told UV resistant plexiglass released gasses slowly over time that could potentially damage artwork (maybe specifically watercolors?). However, I can find very little information online addressing that concern, so maybe the person was wrong or maybe UV plexiglass has a new manufacturing process that eliminates that concern.  Or maybe I'm using the wrong search terms. Curious if anyone else has heard anything about this subject.

Mike

[vodou]

7 hours ago, delekkerste said:

This piece was beautifully and expensively framed by the previous owner.  As I thought it was plexi and not glass (didn't feel heavy enough to be glass, but maybe because it was high-end glass), I didn't see any reason to reframe it. 

$150 does not get you to first base with my frame jobs.

Fair enough. And hey, it's your art and your insurance claim (hope it's pays out and doesn't drop you! ) If it's just a flip, who cares, beautifully and expensively is a selling point to the next guy too, but for stuff you're going to have for at least a few years, isn't it worth the effort.

But do you hang everything? Gene...I'm just trying to be helpful - strip the art out of the frames, at least to examine all around, if nothing else! You can always reassemble after, if you like. Personally my framing aesthetic (or lack thereof, I prefer to let the artwork speak, not the frameage) is the complete opposite of everyone here except, maybe, Eric Seffinga.

If you're spending more than $150, unless it's for massive 40x60" (I think not), well a fool and his money...j/k! Clearly you like to let the frameage give at least background harmonies to your lead singer. Okay

[vodou]

7 hours ago, BCarter27 said:

Always swap glass for plexi. It just isn't worth the grief! I also have sellers remove the glass from their framed pieces before shipment. I've gotten boxes of glass shards and shredded paper before.

Likewise. I've gotten bad broken glasses packages in too. Some of the smarter guys at least put blue painters tape across in several directions. Not ideal but at least this discourages vibration and shattering.

I get the appeal of unboxing and putting right up on the wall. But all those contrasting frame styles, sizes, colors, and mats, err no.

[delekkerste]

5 hours ago, vodou said:

If you're spending more than $150, unless it's for massive 40x60" (I think not), well a fool and his money...j/k! Clearly you like to let the frameage give at least background harmonies to your lead singer. Okay

 

12 hours ago, BCarter27 said:

Not the best post to skim read quickly. I did a double-take!

 

Always swap glass for plexi. It just isn't worth the grief! I also have sellers remove the glass from their framed pieces before shipment. I've gotten boxes of glass shards and shredded paper before.

Check around online... $750 seems like a LOT for even museum plexi.

I don't frame any 11 x 17" B&W pieces.  All of those pieces are in portfolios.  As such, all the pieces I do get framed are oversized (mostly painted pieces).  As such, $150 for museum plexi isn't going to cut it.  And, it takes a lot of thought and effort regarding framing and matting choices.  Not to mention, I don't like to leave my high value pieces (and they're almost always high value pieces) with a framer (not that I don't trust my framer himself, more the risk of theft or damage caused by other parties), so I have to coordinate all the framing details, and then set up a time to bring the art in so that it can be framed same day, and then come back to pick it up.

Bottom line:  it requires more cost, time, thought and effort than most other peoples' framing jobs.  And, I own a lot of framed pieces (again, mostly paintings, but also oversized strip art and the like) - it's not easy to strip them out of frames to check that everything has been framed to archival specifications as it would be with your bog standard 11 x 17" comic art.  It would be a 5-figure expense and take a ton of time and effort to get everything I own reframed.  At some point, I think most of us are comfortable taking the risk that the existing frame jobs are competent, especially for high-end art bought from high-end collectors sold through a high-end auction house.  

But, then again, I trust auction houses with my max bid ahead of time, so what do I know. 

[ESeffinga]

I have a 40" x 40" Dave McKean oil and mixed media painting from his Nitrate series in a frame near my front door.

Dave did the original frame himself for these pieces, but after being on the wall for a few years, it started to warp. Now, for anyone not in the know about Dave's work, in certain pieces he likes to add stuff to the face of his pieces. In the case of my piece, it has sticks and dried leaves from his garden, as well as dimensional plaster, and whatnot. And the base are is actually about 3/4" thick board. So the piece is actually more like a 4" deep box frame.

At 40" x 40", the piece of regular museum glass was ridiculously heavy, and oversized. I ended up upgrading to the highest grade of oversized museum plexi on that piece I could get. It's been a bit of a test case for me, because I wasn't 100% sure about how it would do, given the high traffic area, and potential for scratching. FWIW, McKean had plexi on the original pieces as well, but he was also shipping them around the world for exhibitions, and again, the plexi is half the weight of the glass. I understand they can also present some cleaning challenges if one isn't careful.

Normally I'm ok with museum glass on the pieces that warrant it. I don't bother going that route on pieces that are interior walls with no windows or lighting that will cause glare. in those cases, just good UV glass is fine (for me). But this badboy gets a fair bit of glare on it, and you'd never even know anything was there. It was pricier than the glass for certain, but worth every penny. Maybe even more glare-free than my favorite museum glass. And the new frame job looks fab. Before, the original plexi was all glare, and made seeing the details of the work a challenge. Now it's like there's nothing between the art and the eye. I love that about a good museum plexi/glass.

That said, it's still a very very heavy piece, so I ended up hanging it with a z-cleat instead of the usual hooks and wire. That way it could go right into the studs with zero flex, or possibility of it being bumped off-level.

I could have sworn I had a picture, but I guess I don't. I can take one later if anyone is interested.

[PhilipB2k17]

3 hours ago, delekkerste said:

 

I don't frame any 11 x 17" B&W pieces.  All of those pieces are in portfolios.  As such, all the pieces I do get framed are oversized (mostly painted pieces).  As such, $150 for museum plexi isn't going to cut it.  And, it takes a lot of thought and effort regarding framing and matting choices.  Not to mention, I don't like to leave my high value pieces (and they're almost always high value pieces) with a framer (not that I don't trust my framer himself, more the risk of theft or damage caused by other parties), so I have to coordinate all the framing details, and then set up a time to bring the art in so that it can be framed same day, and then come back to pick it up.

Bottom line:  it requires more cost, time, thought and effort than most other peoples' framing jobs.  And, I own a lot of framed pieces (again, mostly paintings, but also oversized strip art and the like) - it's not easy to strip them out of frames to check that everything has been framed to archival specifications as it would be with your bog standard 11 x 17" comic art.  It would be a 5-figure expense and take a ton of time and effort to get everything I own reframed.  At some point, I think most of us are comfortable taking the risk that the existing frame jobs are competent, especially for high-end art bought from high-end collectors sold through a high-end auction house.  

But, then again, I trust auction houses with my max bid ahead of time, so what do I know. 

Have you ever tried making a scale color poster print of one of your pieces from a scan, and then give it to the framer as a guide? Or is that too much hassle?

[Claudio]

Glass looks much nicer.  No glare.  But I use plexi because I am in California.  

[RabidFerret]

4 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

I have a 40" x 40" Dave McKean oil and mixed media painting from his Nitrate series in a frame near my front door.

Dave did the original frame himself for these pieces, but after being on the wall for a few years, it started to warp. Now, for anyone not in the know about Dave's work, in certain pieces he likes to add stuff to the face of his pieces. In the case of my piece, it has sticks and dried leaves from his garden, as well as dimensional plaster, and whatnot. And the base are is actually about 3/4" thick board. So the piece is actually more like a 4" deep box frame.

At 40" x 40", the piece of regular museum glass was ridiculously heavy, and oversized. I ended up upgrading to the highest grade of oversized museum plexi on that piece I could get. It's been a bit of a test case for me, because I wasn't 100% sure about how it would do, given the high traffic area, and potential for scratching. FWIW, McKean had plexi on the original pieces as well, but he was also shipping them around the world for exhibitions, and again, the plexi is half the weight of the glass. I understand they can also present some cleaning challenges if one isn't careful.

Normally I'm ok with museum glass on the pieces that warrant it. I don't bother going that route on pieces that are interior walls with no windows or lighting that will cause glare. in those cases, just good UV glass is fine (for me). But this badboy gets a fair bit of glare on it, and you'd never even know anything was there. It was pricier than the glass for certain, but worth every penny. Maybe even more glare-free than my favorite museum glass. And the new frame job looks fab. Before, the original plexi was all glare, and made seeing the details of the work a challenge. Now it's like there's nothing between the art and the eye. I love that about a good museum plexi/glass.

That said, it's still a very very heavy piece, so I ended up hanging it with a z-cleat instead of the usual hooks and wire. That way it could go right into the studs with zero flex, or possibility of it being bumped off-level.

I could have sworn I had a picture, but I guess I don't. I can take one later if anyone is interested.

Very insightful! Thanks much! 

And thanks to everyone else who's been posting! This has been an extremely helpful thread.

I'm definitely going plexi now and I've pinged a few different framers to compare prices, even asking the Tru-Vue folks that make the nice plexi to send me a sample(free via their site).

Might be a few weeks until I get it done as I now have to decide on a frame and matte and find the time, but I appreciate the community for chiming in on this!

[BCarter27]

10 hours ago, delekkerste said:

And, it takes a lot of thought and effort regarding framing and matting choices.

If the paintings you've brought to past Comic Art Cons are any indication, they are indeed nicely framed!