The first premium ratio retailer incentive variant? 0

[valiantman]

What was the first premium ratio (1:50 or higher) retailer incentive variant?

Valiant created their "gold editions" in 1992, which were about 1:100... but was there an earlier "premium ratio" (not talking about 1:5 or 1:10)?

Edited September 20, 2017 by valiantman

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

What was the first premium ratio (1:50 or higher) retailer incentive variant?

Valiant created their "gold editions" in 1992, which were about 1:100... but was there an earlier "premium ratio" (not talking about 1:5 or 1:10)?

There is no "about" 1:100. A comic was either distributed to retailers based on their orders of the regular edition, or it wasn't.

[valiantman]

1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

There is no "about" 1:100. A comic was either distributed to retailers based on their orders of the regular edition, or it wasn't.

It wasn't a "rule" when it started.  If you were a high-ordering retailer, you might get a gold edition.  You might not.  We might figure out when Diamond first had the "retailer ratio" listed in Previews, but that was after the concept was created.  What you seem to be requiring didn't start until they saw that it was already working.  Valiant had a series of gold editions beginning in 1992, Image had them soon after.  

Spider-man #1 had a platinum edition for the 1990 book, which would have been about 1:100 if there were 10,000 copies and the regular editions sold a million.  

If you want to celebrate something that came along years later as "first", well, I submit that Wolverine #1 is the first Wolverine.  Those Hulk books were just tests about Wolverine. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

16 hours ago, valiantman said:

It wasn't a "rule" when it started.  If you were a high-ordering retailer, you might get a gold edition.  You might not.  We might figure out when Diamond first had the "retailer ratio" listed in Previews, but that was after the concept was created.  What you seem to be requiring didn't start until they saw that it was already working.  Valiant had a series of gold editions beginning in 1992, Image had them soon after.  

Spider-man #1 had a platinum edition for the 1990 book, which would have been about 1:100 if there were 10,000 copies and the regular editions sold a million.  

If you want to celebrate something that came along years later as "first", well, I submit that Wolverine #1 is the first Wolverine.  Those Hulk books were just tests about Wolverine. 

As a MARKETING tool, I've been told that the first actual ratio incentive variants (not sure why the distinction of 1:50 or higher) was Dreamwave in 2002. The first ones I remember were the New Avengers #1-6, which started as a 1:20 for #1, then 1:19 for #2, 1:18 for #3, etc.

They can't properly be called INCENTIVES if there was no formalized method by which one could obtain a copy by ordering other books. There were "1:X" books going back to the 80's; the first one may have been Adventurers #1. Certainly one example was Legends of the Dark Knight, which came 1 of each color, 4 colors, in the box, making each one 1:4. As well, Prophet #4 came 1:4...3 copies of the regular, 1 copy of the variant, repeat. 

Spiderman #1 had orders for about 1.75 million copies. There was no way to order X amount of copies to receive 1 copy of the platinum. In fact, the platinum was sent out to retailers after the fact, as a thank you. So, they can't properly be called 1:X at all, except possibly 1:store (or retailer account.) As well, the Valiant golds weren't distributed, as you know, 1 per anything, either. 

[Lazyboy]

13 hours ago, valiantman said:

It wasn't a "rule" when it started.  If you were a high-ordering retailer, you might get a gold edition.  You might not.

That doesn't sound like much of an incentive to me.

[STORMSHADOW_80]

I wonder what the Superman 75 Platinum was?

[valiantman]

2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

As a MARKETING tool, I've been told that the first actual ratio incentive variants (not sure why the distinction of 1:50 or higher) was Dreamwave in 2002. The first ones I remember were the New Avengers #1-6, which started as a 1:20 for #1, then 1:19 for #2, 1:18 for #3, etc.

They can't properly be called INCENTIVES if there was no formalized method by which one could obtain a copy by ordering other books. There were "1:X" books going back to the 80's; the first one may have been Adventurers #1. Certainly one example was Legends of the Dark Knight, which came 1 of each color, 4 colors, in the box, making each one 1:4. As well, Prophet #4 came 1:4...3 copies of the regular, 1 copy of the variant, repeat. 

Spiderman #1 had orders for about 1.75 million copies. There was no way to order X amount of copies to receive 1 copy of the platinum. In fact, the platinum was sent out to retailers after the fact, as a thank you. So, they can't properly be called 1:X at all, except possibly 1:store (or retailer account.) As well, the Valiant golds weren't distributed, as you know, 1 per anything, either. 

I guess the original meaning of "incentives" is what books like the Valiant golds were... an "incentive" to do something special for Valiant.  They often highlighted Valiant-painted comic shop windows and Valiant-themed comic shop contests and the incentive was to get a gold edition.  True, it wasn't a "1:X" without a more solid way to earn it, but it was the origin of the "incentive program".  Even the RRP books were an "incentive" for just attending the meeting (not for ordering).

The 1:50 distinction was really to differentiate between variants that occurred naturally (such as LotDK 1:4) or variants which weren't extremely limited (compared to the regular), Prophet #4 being 25% isn't an extreme.

Spider-Man Platinum #1 was an extreme ratio (even if we don't know the exact value of X in the 1:X), compared to the regular editions... and the Valiant gold editions were an extreme.  I assume the Image golds were also extreme, but they seem more plentiful than Valiant... which makes sense.  Valiant gold books were 5,000 copies and selling for $50 to $100, so Image probably printed 10,000 to 20,000 gold editions hoping for the same result. 

Superman #75 was an extreme ratio compared to the regular editions.  I believe Acclaim had 1:6 and 1:10 ordering requirements in 1998, so that pre-dates Dreamwave in 2002, but I still think the 8% to 20% variants weren't really to the extreme that "ramped it up" to where 1:50 to 1:5,000 has become today.

[RockMyAmadeus]

39 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I guess the original meaning of "incentives" is what books like the Valiant golds were... an "incentive" to do something special for Valiant.  They often highlighted Valiant-painted comic shop windows and Valiant-themed comic shop contests and the incentive was to get a gold edition.  True, it wasn't a "1:X" without a more solid way to earn it, but it was the origin of the "incentive program".  Even the RRP books were an "incentive" for just attending the meeting (not for ordering).

The 1:50 distinction was really to differentiate between variants that occurred naturally (such as LotDK 1:4) or variants which weren't extremely limited (compared to the regular), Prophet #4 being 25% isn't an extreme.

Spider-Man Platinum #1 was an extreme ratio (even if we don't know the exact value of X in the 1:X), compared to the regular editions... and the Valiant gold editions were an extreme.  I assume the Image golds were also extreme, but they seem more plentiful than Valiant... which makes sense.  Valiant gold books were 5,000 copies and selling for $50 to $100, so Image probably printed 10,000 to 20,000 gold editions hoping for the same result. 

Superman #75 was an extreme ratio compared to the regular editions.  I believe Acclaim had 1:6 and 1:10 ordering requirements in 1998, so that pre-dates Dreamwave in 2002, but I still think the 8% to 20% variants weren't really to the extreme that "ramped it up" to where 1:50 to 1:5,000 has become today.

Yes, but the word "incentive" and the program has come to mean something very specific. Sure, it CAN be viewed as an incentive, but that's not what the ratio incentive program means today, which is "if you order X amount of the regular cover, you will receive/can buy 1 copy of the variant." Trying to retcon the idea of "ratios" to books that are 25 years plus muddies the meaning of what that marketing concept means today (which is not, by the way, a PRINT ratio.)

Spiderman #1 Platinum was NOT a "1:100", because that gives the uninformed the impression that if a store ordered 100 copies of Spiderman #1, they would receive a platinum. That's not how it worked, for any book, until much later. I've seen people try to shoehorn the "1:X" for books like the Valiant golds, but again...retcon shoehorn that doesn't work. We know for a relatively well established fact (that is, Layton and Shooter both) that the vast majority of the golds were printed to the tune of 5,000 copies (maybe 5,500 to account for damages.) They weren't "1:100" or "1:50" or "1:200."

If you have ordering information on those Acclaims, I would be very interested in seeing that. 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

I guess the original meaning of "incentives" is what books like the Valiant golds were... an "incentive" to do something special for Valiant.  They often highlighted Valiant-painted comic shop windows and Valiant-themed comic shop contests and the incentive was to get a gold edition.  True, it wasn't a "1:X" without a more solid way to earn it, but it was the origin of the "incentive program".  Even the RRP books were an "incentive" for just attending the meeting (not for ordering).

The 1:50 distinction was really to differentiate between variants that occurred naturally (such as LotDK 1:4) or variants which weren't extremely limited (compared to the regular), Prophet #4 being 25% isn't an extreme.

Spider-Man Platinum #1 was an extreme ratio (even if we don't know the exact value of X in the 1:X), compared to the regular editions... and the Valiant gold editions were an extreme.  I assume the Image golds were also extreme, but they seem more plentiful than Valiant... which makes sense.  Valiant gold books were 5,000 copies and selling for $50 to $100, so Image probably printed 10,000 to 20,000 gold editions hoping for the same result. 

Superman #75 was an extreme ratio compared to the regular editions.  I believe Acclaim had 1:6 and 1:10 ordering requirements in 1998, so that pre-dates Dreamwave in 2002, but I still think the 8% to 20% variants weren't really to the extreme that "ramped it up" to where 1:50 to 1:5,000 has become today.

Which Acclaims are those? Not the painted cover, I imagine? They seem to exist in about equal numbers as the regular edition. Would it be the glow in the dark Shadowman and the other V3 variants?

[valiantman]

I just checked my Previews information on the Acclaim books.  The listing for Shadowman Vol. 3, #2 (June 1999) states:  "(NOTE: This item ships with a 1:5 variant cover.)"

Since that was pre-incentive I don't know if that means there's a 1-in-5 chance you'll get the variant, if there's a 1-in-6 chance you'll get the variant (1 variant, 5 regular), or if you must-order-5-to-get-1-variant.

Did shops that ordered 4 copies guarantee themselves zero variants because it was fewer than 5, or did they have 4 chances to get a variant?

[RockMyAmadeus]

8 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Which Acclaims are those? Not the painted cover, I imagine? They seem to exist in about equal numbers as the regular edition. Would it be the glow in the dark Shadowman and the other V3 variants?

The GITD Shadowman #16 was advertised throughout the Acclaim titles leading up to it. There's some specific literature about how it was to be distributed. I want to say something about your total number of copies, or that it was limited to 750....something along those lines.

In other words, a bit of a rehash of the Unity ordering technique, whereby every shop that ordered a complete set of Unity got a free Unity #0. But it is quite specific, so if I run across it, I'll post if I remember.