(help) Making a Comic Book 0

[Artboy99]

Are you hoping to get a cover done by a high end guy like Hughes?

[Artboy99]

6 minutes ago, AndyFish said:

I wasn't going to respond to this either but maybe it helps someone else.

I've got something like 20 graphic novels and HOW TO DRAW books from various publishers as well as self published work.  My first self published graphic novel sold about 500 copies and I spent the next five or six years chugging these to cons to try and move them.

My last self published book moved about 28K copies with a lot of sales through libraries and traditional book distribution.    A graphic novel I did with comedy writer Steve Altes hit $45K on Kickstarter and even a bit more after the campaign was over as funding kept coming in.  A very positive experience.

So the above is my credentials-- you can look me up on the all knowing Wikipedia if you want more info.

To anyone planning on embarking on this road as a writer you really have only a few options;

1. Devote all of your free time to learn how to draw, then learn how to do sequentials.  The looks I get from people who can't draw when I suggest this are priceless.  There is a point when none of us can draw and yet all of us do-- childhood.  The kids who keep on drawing are the ones who learn to draw.  Ditto the kid that sticks with guitar, or piano or any other creative endeavor.  There is an element of talent but it's mostly sweat.  Draw everyday for hours a day and over the course of a year you will see a genuinue improvement.  After two or three years your work will approach pro level (and keep in mind some of the most popular artists working in the independents have very crude styles that are marketable) so as laughable as this method sounds in the long run I think it's your best option.  I've been teaching adults to draw for about 15 years now and I've seen it work time and time again.  This will eliminate the headaches you're going to find with your other options...

2. Find an artist you can afford and offer them some kind of spec with hopefully a base pay of sorts.  This is your WORST option.  Why?  Because you'll be signing contracts and such and now you have given over half or a third of your project rights to someone who has done nothing except maybe the sample page you asked them to draw before you chose them.   Good news you like this artist, bad news this artist is not a professional and pages are going to be late. 

How do I know this?  Because professionals are busy doing work that actually pays the bills and they aren't wasting their time taking a shot at an unproven property.   You are going to face years of headaches as you hope for pages, meanwhile the artist will work on your project when they can because they need to do other work to pay the bills.    Worse yet, if the artist you agreed to work with is actually good and just starting out, they are going to get work that actually pays which will lure them from your project and contract or no contract you'll still be regulated to the back burner.  You can write into the contract that the whole project is due in 30 days but in 31 days when you have five pages from them are you really going to file court papers to enforce the contract?  What do you think will compe of the collaboration going this way?

2A. Put your house up for a home equity loan and pull out the full $5-$8k a pro artist is going to get paid for a fully rendered 22 page book.  How much do you believe in your project?  You're asking an artist to put up his time and passing on regular paying gigs in option 2 above-- put your money where your mouth is.  You'll have all rights to the art and content.  You won't get the original art unless you make some kind of arrangement up front.  The norm is such that artists get the work back and are able to resell it in the off chance your book is popular, so don't think paying pro rates means you'll get the art.  A lot of creators (the majority?) are now working digitally so there's a real chance there is no original anyway.

2B. Do a combination of the two-- you can find a new pro for likely around $200/page but you want to make sure whoever you're hiring works as a comic artist FULL time.  This will mean a timely turnover of the project, if the artist believes in the project they may be willing to work for slightly less money if you give them a piece of the ownership-- especially the licensing should this get picked up for film or TV.

BUT no matter what you do DO NOT approach a student.  The last thing you need is someone who is just figuring out how to do this.  I don't care how talented they are, you will regret this choice.  I work with a lot of talented college students right now and not one of them would be one I'd recommend if someone asked. 

You could take whatever pro pages you have-- say you can only afford $2k to get 10 pages done-- take those 10 pages and try doing a kickstarter for them.  Do your math for what printing and publishing and shipping will cost as well as creator expenses (pay yourself) and ask for a little bit more.  Figure out a good rewards program and put a lot of work into your promotion video to sell your concept-- then turn on full marketing mode for the 30 days the campaign is up and push the hell out of it.

Self publishing is a hassle but it can be profitable but it takes a lot of work and a lot of thought.

well said, and thank you for adding your experiences to this discussion.

[HighRadArt]

7 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

Are you hoping to get a cover done by a high end guy like Hughes?

Maybe not that high end since I can only imagine what his rate is.  What's an average rate for a cover? $500? $1k?  I know the after publish markup can be a lot.  Although, I picked up a published cover from Tim Seeley for $250 ( nice guy btw).

[Artboy99]

Just now, HighRadArt said:

Maybe not that high end since I can only imagine what his rate is.  What's an average rate for a cover? $500? $1k?  I know the after publish markup can be a lot.  Although, I picked up a published cover from Tim Seeley for $250 ( nice guy btw).

I am not sure, all I know is the better the cover the more likely the book will sell. Getting someone like Adam Hughes, or Campbell or Finch to do your cover may not be a terrible idea. Easily more marketable - new book with cover drawn by Hughes! will sell more.

[HighRadArt]

13 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

well said, and thank you for adding your experiences to this discussion.

+1

[HighRadArt]

The OP should be happy. There's some great information here.

[Artboy99]

20 minutes ago, HighRadArt said:

The OP should be happy. There's some great information here.

or sad to learn that it will likely cost him $10,000 to get his story made into a comic and then he will have only 1000 copies to try to sell to recoup his costs and compensate himself for the writing.

[HighRadArt]

8 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

or sad to learn that it will likely cost him $10,000 to get his story made into a comic and then he will have only 1000 copies to try to sell to recoup his costs and compensate himself for the writing.

[aardvark88]

5 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

or sad to learn that it will likely cost him $10,000 to get his story made into a comic and then he will have only 1000 copies to try to sell to recoup his costs and compensate himself for the writing.

Could be sadder than this. You are paying independent press table costs at all your regional comicons and giving away many sample copies of #1 issue to try to justify costs of issue #2 or 3 on a quarterly publishing schedule.

Recommendation: try to get a price quote for a cover drawn by Tim Vigil from CA, USA. I think his media (graphic novels, CD, album covers) artwork is moderately priced.

[HighRadArt]

12 minutes ago, aardvark88 said:

Could be sadder than this. You are paying independent press table costs at all your regional comicons and giving away many sample copies of #1 issue to try to justify costs of issue #2 or 3 on a quarterly publishing schedule.

Recommendation: try to get a price quote for a cover drawn by Tim Vigil from CA, USA. I think his media (graphic novels, CD, album covers) artwork is moderately priced.

I have some OA by Tim. Awesome artist and very reasonable prices.

[Artboy99]

6 minutes ago, HighRadArt said:

I have some OA by Tim. Awesome artist and very reasonable prices.

Yes, I enjoyed Faust, and I really like this page:

 

[HighRadArt]

Never seen that but wowzers 

[Senormac]

7 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

8 hours ago, HighRadArt said:

The OP should be happy. There's some great information here.

or sad to learn that it will likely cost him $10,000 to get his story made into a comic and then he will have only 1000 copies to try to sell to recoup his costs and compensate himself for the writing.

What does one do with 1000 copies ?  You still need some kind of distribution line don't you ?  A middle man ?

[Artboy99]

7 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

or sad to learn that it will likely cost him $10,000 to get his story made into a comic and then he will have only 1000 copies to try to sell to recoup his costs and compensate himself for the writing.

also: This valuation is for a single 20 page comic. What if the OP's story requires multiple books?

[Artboy99]

2 minutes ago, Senormac said:

What does one do with 1000 copies ?  You still need some kind of distribution line don't you ?  A middle man ?

good point.

Maybe the Op has a whole bunch of friends all over the world he can mail copies to.

[SteppinRazor]

12 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

Therein lies the challenge.

Becoming an artist that can expect to be paid for their work takes many years of training and development.

Being an Artist is like being in a trade: if you hire a plumber you expect to compensate the professional to complete the work by paying an hourly rate and paying for the materials and supplies.

A professional artist has spent many years training and learning their trade. If you want your comic that you have written to be successful you have to hire an artist that has the skills. The art needs to be good enough to catch the eyes of the publisher/ distributor. If the art looks amateur they won't give it a second.

Trust me, I have been through it myself. I had the president of Avatar Press in my booth a few years ago and I asked if he would look at my comic / art. He reluctantly said ok after a rather audible sigh and took 1 second to look at my pages and didn't give me any feedback at all. He couldn't be bothered. Rather humbling for someone that has drawn professionally for over 30 years.

 

I think kickstarter is definitely great as an avenue to skip over that Avatar press type situation.  I'm on board with the model, using people to accomplish goals and skipping the corporate part.  Like Uber. 

The artist should absolutely have the skills, which is up to the (self)publisher.  They have to determine what they like.   I know for me, collecting in the 90s, and with all humility, some of the artwork getting printed (esp. by DC) actually made me angry that it was so hard to break into the business but didn't seem to matter how good you were once you got there.

I think it's important for anyone trying to get a book published to, 1)do it themselves through kickstarter or self funding, at least the first one,  and 2)not expect a contract employee to defer payment so you can make your dream happen, not theirs.  If you want them to defer payment, then they need a portion of ownership IMO.

Edited October 6, 2017 by SteppinRazor

[Reno McCoy]

I'm a writer who's self-published four comics now, the last two of which had successful Kickstarter campaigns, which you can find here and here. 

From what I've learned, a publisher Boom! or higher won't sign a deal with you until you've done a few comics on your own, proven that you can make great comics, and maybe even come on board with a sizable list of fans. Sure, there are people who fit in with one publisher or another, but the more I learn about that, the more I realize it's who you know. Even small press like, say, Black Mask, don't take unsolicited material to consider. You should also note that unless a publisher comes to you for a story, you'll need to have it complete or nearly complete for them to consider it anyway. I don't know of any publishers who will take on a creative team with only a --script and a few complete pages. Sure, that's Image's model, in theory, but that's a tough nut to crack. 

For your first Kickstarter, I suggest you have a complete book done. Sure, it's costly, but you'll find more backers when the risk is minimal. I've backed so many projects that took years to complete, and no one wants that. If you have a book that only needs to be printed, it's an easier buy-in for random strangers.

As for a printer, I paid about $1500 for 1000 copies shipped to me. If you're doing print on demand locally, sure, the cost will be about $3 a copy. But if you do offset printing and print 500+, there are great options to choose from. 

I printed 1000 copies of each book I did. I sold at cons and online only. It's incredibly tough to sell through 1000 comics. I'm sitting on about 300 left of each issue, and that's after some serious pushes here and there. Next year, I'm switching to making books 90+ pages. The profits aren't there for floppies. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Reno McCoy

[Artboy99]

22 minutes ago, Reno McCoy said:

I'm a writer who's self-published four comics now, the last two of which had successful Kickstarter campaigns, which you can find here and here. 

From what I've learned, a publisher Boom! or higher won't sign a deal with you until you've done a few comics on your own, proven that you can make great comics, and maybe even come on board with a sizable list of fans. Sure, there are people who fit in with one publisher or another, but the more I learn about that, the more I realize it's who you know. Even small press like, say, Black Mask, don't take unsolicited material to consider. You should also note that unless a publisher comes to you for a story, you'll need to have it complete or nearly complete for them to consider it anyway. I don't know of any publishers who will take on a creative team with only a ---script and a few complete pages. Sure, that's Image's model, in theory, but that's a tough nut to crack. 

For your first Kickstarter, I suggest you have a complete book done. Sure, it's costly, but you'll find more backers when the risk is minimal. I've backed so many projects that took years to complete, and no one wants that. If you have a book that only needs to be printed, it's an easier buy-in for random strangers.

As for a printer, I paid about $1500 for 1000 copies shipped to me. If you're doing print on demand locally, sure, the cost will be about $3 a copy. But if you do offset printing and print 500+, there are great options to choose from. 

I printed 1000 copies of each book I did. I sold at cons and online only. It's incredibly tough to sell through 1000 comics. I'm sitting on about 300 left of each issue, and that's after some serious pushes here and there. Next year, I'm switching to making books 90+ pages. The profits aren't there for floppies. 

thanks for sharing. Even more valuable information.

[Reno McCoy]

4 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

thanks for sharing. Even more valuable information.

I've taken courses on Kickstarter and building email lists and all that, so I'm definitely interested in the subject. Making your own comics is painfully slow, but so rewarding when they're done and you start getting feedback from readers. If all goes well, or maybe even if it doesn't, this time next year I won't have a day job and I'll be making comics full time. 

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Reno McCoy

[Artboy99]

2 minutes ago, Reno McCoy said:

I've taken courses on Kickstarter and building email lists and all that, so I'm definitely interested in the subject. Making your own comics is painfully slow, but so rewarding when they're done and you start getting feedback from readers. If all goes well, or maybe even if it doesn't, this time next year I won't have a day job and I'll be making comics full time. 

 

If that is what you want to be doing then go for it! I wish you all the best.