thehumantorch Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 4 hours ago, TeeDub said: Torch, you are correct, my response to "I'll have to see if I can get this back, it belongs to a client that was very unhappy with her treatment last go - round. If not your late payment will be refunded." was harsher than it needed to be. However, it was not meant to be antagonistic, and it didn't come from disappointment. I lost my temper at the implication that I had treated someone (his third party seller) poorly and at davedawgbg's needle of "your late payment", I thought both his statements were unfair and themselves antagonistic, and I fired back kinda hot. But point taken, I could have handled it better, mea culpa on that. Understood, I can see why you were upset and I'm not bashing you. I can see the seller squeezing his butt cheeks after reading this and deciding to cancel the transaction. TeeDub 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entalmighty1 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 3 hours ago, Red_Hood said: Sellers in this place need to learn how to make a simple PayPal invoice using the "create invoice" function in PayPal. Technically, a buyer may not even have PayPal buyer protection if they send money when given the PayPal address to send it to. I don't think it's all that critical. I've completed hundreds of transactions here buying and selling, and maybe 2% of those are a legit invoice. The others consist of, "Hey, your total with shipping for _____ is $____, please send payment to seller@paypaladdress, and I'll update you with shipping information when I get it on the way. Thanks!" That's part of what makes this community so great, this transaction notwithstanding. It's all casual and friendly, typically. One of the problems I see in this scenario is the ability to edit PMs without seeing an "edited by ______ at 1:42 PM." That's troubling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeDub Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, comicdonna said: Is one of these replies from davedawgbg? If so, which one? yes. davedawgbg quoted me saying "Incredibly unprofessional." davedawgbg then replied in his PM to me with the following... "Yes you are, and you've pissed me off beyond words with your lies. I'm going to give you one, and only one opportunity to have a little self-awareness and walk back everything you've said and done, including your completely unacceptable post in the Marketplace before I absolutely unleash and let you know about yourself in front of everyone." I then replied back to davedawgbg by saying... "Now you know how angry I feel. What have I lied about? Please tell me that." To further clarify, my words are in red, davedawbg's are in blue. Edited October 13, 2017 by TeeDub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telerites Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Too bad this keeps lingering. I still get somewhat lost in the PM thread but after 11 days of payment sent/received, a refund or tracking would seem most appropriate. If the seller is unable to get the book back from the consignor (I guess it was a consignor) and hasn't provided any updates, that is disconcerting. You should not forfeit your payment even if you missed a terms-written payment deadline (which evidently is still up for contention). It still would be nice if the seller offered any response here as well. Also as for the possible deletion PMs from the seller, for future reference you might want to quote the PM response when you reply especially for first-time buys from a seller or if you are at all uneasy or if you have OCD You did copy and paste them so a record exists but I guess in extreme cases, it could be alleged that you forged those. You should have at least the e-mails notifying of the replies if they haven't been purged. But if it got to that point, it would be just dumb. I assume you did initiate a PP dispute already? In any case, good luck. thehumantorch and TeeDub 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumantorch Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 11 minutes ago, telerites said: Too bad this keeps lingering. I still get somewhat lost in the PM thread but after 11 days of payment sent/received, a refund or tracking would seem most appropriate. If the seller is unable to get the book back from the consignor (I guess it was a consignor) and hasn't provided any updates, that is disconcerting. You should not forfeit your payment even if you missed a terms-written payment deadline (which evidently is still up for contention). It still would be nice if the seller offered any response here as well. Also as for the possible deletion PMs from the seller, for future reference you might want to quote the PM response when you reply especially for first-time buys from a seller or if you are at all uneasy or if you have OCD You did copy and paste them so a record exists but I guess in extreme cases, it could be alleged that you forged those. You should have at least the e-mails notifying of the replies if they haven't been purged. But if it got to that point, it would be just dumb. I assume you did initiate a PP dispute already? In any case, good luck. It would indeed be nice to hear from the seller. Why has he not refunded the money and why did he edit the pm exchange? Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crassus Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 10 hours ago, thehumantorch said: It would indeed be nice to hear from the seller. Why has he not refunded the money and why did he edit the pm exchange? Yes, and while it is legitimate for sellers to set their own payment rules and to enforce them to the letter, the seller would in this case also have to explain this part of their answer: "I'll have to see if I can get this back, it belongs to a client that was very unhappy with her treatment last go - round. If not your late payment will be refunded." I am not sure what this means. Are we to conclude that the seller never had possession, or full license to sell, the book in the first instance? Does it mean it was his book to sell but the moment the clock expired on TeeDub's deal he had sold it to someone else? But if so, how could he get the book back? And if he hasn't refunded TeeDub's money, does that mean he still thinks he can get the book back and complete the original deal? None of this makes any sense. thehumantorch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighRadArt Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Why do people get stupid when it comes to transactions? How hard is it to send a book you've been paid for or to refund money for a book you didn't send. File a Paypal dispute and you won't have to wait 30 days or deal with useless PMs. TeeDub 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeDub Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 TeeDub Replied: 14 hours ago Ok, the "unacceptable post" in the marketplace is still up and going. And if it's to come down then I certainly won't be the one doing it. So. Feel free to "unleash" at any time. Personally, I'm really curious to know what the heck "...let you know about yourself in front of everyone." even means. davedawgbg Replied: 9 hours ago Very well. Disappointing, but certainly not surprising based on your behavior up to this point. TeeDub Replied: 4 minutes ago Yeah, let's talk "disappointing" and "behavior"... so you have my money and you may or may not have the book, but have sent me neither, and it seems you have no plan to do either. Do you plan on returning my money? Or do we have to do this the hard way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeDub Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 reported to Paypal. Thanks for everyone's input and advice. Still no mention from davedawgbg about the book or returning my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustEatBrains Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 If TeeDub gets his money back direct from PayPal, should not the seller still be put up on the PL or does the return of money by PayPal get the seller off the hook? I'd still put him on the PL as he did nothing by his own volition to remediate. I get the whole timeline thing, i.e. 30 days has not passed and notice not sent for PL nomination so just speculating here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, MustEatBrains said: If TeeDub gets his money back direct from PayPal, should not the seller still be put up on the PL or does the return of money by PayPal get the seller off the hook? I'd still put him on the PL as he did nothing by his own volition to remediate. I get the whole timeline thing, i.e. 30 days has not passed and notice not sent for PL nomination so just speculating here. I think the way this is typically handled, is that the PL (or threat of PL) is supposed to provide an impetus toward action, generally being made financially whole (at a minimum), or execution of the transaction. In the event that a specific action to make someone 'whole' becomes no longer necessary, generally the PL or threat of PL is no longer necessary. On the boards there is not a lot of 'official' recourse other than PL and Hall of Shame, and think at the point of a paypal refund (even if not initiated by seller) neither would be appropriate. At least that is my understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telerites Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I did notice that davedawbg visited the boards 10 hours ago although the last post was Saturday. A fairly long term member and I don't remember any other issues but I don't frequent many sales thread except mainly GA threads and have never personally dealt with him. I still think it would be a positive to share any of his interpretation of the PMs, payment terms, etc. I am always a fan of hoping these issues come to a positive resolution and maybe just a misunderstanding that could have been avoided. Again good luck. thehumantorch, Mapleleafvann and TeeDub 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAHokie Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Unless this thread takes a complete 180, I would never buy from that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAHokie Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) *double post* Edited October 14, 2017 by CAHokie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystafo Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 1 hour ago, CAHokie said: Unless this thread takes a complete 180, I would never buy from that guy. +1 Going on my list...can't stand dealing with someone who makes me question what reality they occupy. TeeDub 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 On 10/13/2017 at 3:51 PM, revat said: On 10/13/2017 at 3:32 PM, MustEatBrains said: If TeeDub gets his money back direct from PayPal, should not the seller still be put up on the PL or does the return of money by PayPal get the seller off the hook? I'd still put him on the PL as he did nothing by his own volition to remediate. I get the whole timeline thing, i.e. 30 days has not passed and notice not sent for PL nomination so just speculating here. I think the way this is typically handled, is that the PL (or threat of PL) is supposed to provide an impetus toward action, generally being made financially whole (at a minimum), or execution of the transaction. In the event that a specific action to make someone 'whole' becomes no longer necessary, generally the PL or threat of PL is no longer necessary. On the boards there is not a lot of 'official' recourse other than PL and Hall of Shame, and think at the point of a paypal refund (even if not initiated by seller) neither would be appropriate. At least that is my understanding. I think your understanding is correct. To trot out my favorite hobby horse, under our current system there's no way to alert the community to lousy behavior by a seller or a buyer other than through a PL nomination and once the miscreant has done a make good of some sort, he's off the hook. Sure there is a thread enumerating his shortcomings, but how many people read these threads? Now if we allowed for actual feedback threads.... @skypinkblu has campaigned tirelessly to establish such threads, and I for one agree with her! Raze, TeeDub and telerites 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumantorch Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 35 minutes ago, Sqeggs said: I think your understanding is correct. To trot out my favorite hobby horse, under our current system there's no way to alert the community to lousy behavior by a seller or a buyer other than through a PL nomination and once the miscreant has done a make good of some sort, he's off the hook. Sure there is a thread enumerating his shortcomings, but how many people read these threads? Now if we allowed for actual feedback threads.... @skypinkblu has campaigned tirelessly to establish such threads, and I for one agree with her! Agreed, perhaps we need a parole list where anyone who's come off the PL goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapleleafvann Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Some methodology detailing who you might be dealing with is definitely warranted. Unless under direct threat that they will ride that lightening all the way to public shaming for the PL or HOS....there is zero impetus for individuals to actually do the right thing under the current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeDub Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) A quick follow up for those following... I once again contacted @davedawgbg since my last comment here, this time attempting a less inflammatory tone, and hoping to resolve this issue in a more amicable manner. I suggested that if he returned the money then we could simply acknowledge this as a deal gone awry in which two boardies both could have handled themselves better, I'd remove the nomination, and we could go our separate ways. @davedawgbg concurred. He refunded my money the next business day. The funds are still pending, but as soon as they clear then I'll remove the nomination as agreed and claim the issue between us resolved. Thanks to all who gave their feedback here. I would encourage @davedawgbg to step in here and give his side. As a long time boardie, who it seems has not had problems with others here before, I do not want to see someone's rep tarnished over a singe issue. I would like to acknowledge, as @thehumantorch correctly, fairly and respectfully pointed out, that my initial reaction to the issue should have been less angry and reactionary. Perhaps this all could have been avoided, so apologies for my own culpability here. I took davedawg's deleted PM, and terse "Deadline past without acknowledgement, response or payment." PM, quite personally. Then I willfully used a harsh and demanding tone in an attempt to "hit back". Also, my title line in this post that asked "misunderstanding? clown? or jerk?" was a personal shot at @davedawgbg and it was juvenile and uncalled for. It was intended to anger him. And it worked. Anyhow, a lot was handled badly here on what should have a been a very smooth transaction. I should have checked my ego and my temper. My bad. thanks again to all y'all for your input here. Edited October 18, 2017 by TeeDub Mapleleafvann and grebal 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grebal Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Classy. TeeDub 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
