AnkurJ Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I spoke to Matt Nelson at NYCC about books being graded with brittle pages. Many here have seen books with a brittle designation that may only have a small area of brittleness and the rest of the area being ok. After discussing this with a few other dealers and collectors, I spoke to Matt and we agreed a brittleness scale would be great. Perhaps a 3 point scale with areas of brittleness in the notes. Thoughts? IngelsFan, LDarkseid1 and SC22 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IngelsFan Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 46 minutes ago, AnkurJ said: I spoke to Matt Nelson at NYCC about books being graded with brittle pages. Many here have seen books with a brittle designation that may only have a small area of brittleness and the rest of the area being ok. After discussing this with a few other dealers and collectors, I spoke to Matt and we agreed a brittleness scale would be great. Perhaps a 3 point scale with areas of brittleness in the notes. Thoughts? I agree. Even detailed grader notes would be a great start. I've seen some that IMHO didn't deserve the brittle designation. Then some that weren't designated as brittle but actually had visible chips lose in the slab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walclark Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Does seem to be an area where a great deal of inconsistency and subjectivity exists. This could be like the revision to the restoration scale. Maybe there would be a way to include slightly brittle in the revisions. More information is always useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicjack Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I would love to see a scale for i also think this is a subject of inconsistency on when a book is graded . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I agree with this proposal -- in fact, I made it myself recently in another thread. I think three categories would work: SB -- Which would, as it does now, indicate a bit of brittleness, typically at the top or bottom of the spine, or on one outer corner MB -- Some significant flaking but the book can still be read without damage EB -- Book has major brittleness and can't be read without damage More than three categories probably slices the salami too thin. The key problem, imo, is that now books in the MB and EB categories are both labeled Brittle even though collectors view the books quite differently when they encounter them as raw books. IngelsFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telerites Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Not sure it matters to anyone else but I would be interested in whether only the cover(s) display the brittleness, interior page(s), or both. I like @Squeggs scale above. I'm sure it has been discussed and I remember Rick's (@gator) explanation of brittleness but is there a rule of thumb for what would bump from SB to Brittle? I assume it is a subjective grading call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entalmighty1 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I've also seen books with the BRITTLE designation have significantly different final grades, regardless of appearance. There needs to be some consistency in that arena as well, or at least some way of determining why one brittle book grades much lower than another, when overall appearance is very similar. There's a Captain America 37 in the marketplace now with a 2.0 brittle grade with detached cover and centerfold. I just got a recent submission back that graded 1.0 brittle, even though everything is attached, and overall appearance on my book is far and above better than the Cap. A little transparency would be lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Knight Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I think it's a great idea and would be great if CGC can include paper brittleness scale on the label. If they have done a scaling for restoration, why not for paper as well. atomised 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnkurJ Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 I had a Detective 36 that was graded with Brittle pages. The bottom right corner had chipped away and probably was brittle. But what was left was not brittle and the book could be easily read without any chips or pieces falling out. These kind of books could benefit from the designation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telerites Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I have also expressed my desire to delineate PQ and page color on the label. I view them as very different. Is it necessarily true that the next degradation of tanned pages to be SB and would tanning be a suppleness scale? Just my good for naught thoughts. If at least the brittleness scale can be added, a step forward for sure. (as long as it doesn't in itself raise grading costs of wait times) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakerFanOne Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 A brittleness scale is way overdue. When we are talking about big $$$ for comics these days, it is absolutely essential that more descriptive information/data beyond slightly brittle and brittle page designations are used. LDarkseid1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDarkseid1 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I think this is an ingenious idea!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino2paulus2 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I'm liking where this is heading. Much needed you have my vote!! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I'd also like a scale. That "BRITTLE pages" in all caps just screams at you, making you think it's about to crumble. I would think the difficulty in implementing this is that brittleness is an ongoing process as the paper ages, right? Once encapsulated with micro chamber paper, does that necessarily arrest any stage of brittleness from further advancing? That may be an obstacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 4 hours ago, gino2paulus2 said: I'm liking where this is heading. Much needed you have my vote!! ? x 1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgallo Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I think this is a good idea as well. I generally find that covers are rarely brittle. I think the biggest issue is with Slightly Brittle, what does that mean. I am not sure it is needed on the label as it may get a little busy but in the notes for sure. As has been said above these books are getting super expensive and there could be a huge dollar difference between SB and B. All that being said I think your still going to have an issue with two books being brittle and one looking fine and the other have chips in the holder. I looked at a major key GA book at NYCC and the pages were labeled as cream to off white, they clearly were not with missing chips visible from the back and weakness to the top right corner.... James G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluechip Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 21 hours ago, AnkurJ said: I had a Detective 36 that was graded with Brittle pages. The bottom right corner had chipped away and probably was brittle. But what was left was not brittle and the book could be easily read without any chips or pieces falling out. These kind of books could benefit from the designation. I had a book like that, with one small corner that was off white and supple everywhere but one corner, which was obviously exposed in storage, and ended up chipped away, so it was said to have "brittle pages." So was this copy of Wonder Woman. Identical descriptions for two vastly different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnkurJ Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 10 hours ago, jgallo said: I think this is a good idea as well. I generally find that covers are rarely brittle. I think the biggest issue is with Slightly Brittle, what does that mean. I am not sure it is needed on the label as it may get a little busy but in the notes for sure. As has been said above these books are getting super expensive and there could be a huge dollar difference between SB and B. All that being said I think your still going to have an issue with two books being brittle and one looking fine and the other have chips in the holder. I looked at a major key GA book at NYCC and the pages were labeled as cream to off white, they clearly were not with missing chips visible from the back and weakness to the top right corner.... James G It's possible the book was not properly stored after being slabbed. Cgc holders clearly state they won't stop environmental factors. Makes you think of a good backboard and double Mylar provides better protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjpb Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 8:21 AM, jgallo said: I think this is a good idea as well. I generally find that covers are rarely brittle. I think the biggest issue is with Slightly Brittle, what does that mean. I am not sure it is needed on the label as it may get a little busy but in the notes for sure. As has been said above these books are getting super expensive and there could be a huge dollar difference between SB and B. All that being said I think your still going to have an issue with two books being brittle and one looking fine and the other have chips in the holder. I looked at a major key GA book at NYCC and the pages were labeled as cream to off white, they clearly were not with missing chips visible from the back and weakness to the top right corner.... James G CGC doesn't seem to acknowledge cover brittleness, and this is the frequently the norm in the hobby, but any comic with chips out of the cover, that don't look like they were the result of handling tears or worn creases, is by definition slightly brittle at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFifthHorseman Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 14 hours ago, AnkurJ said: It's possible the book was not properly stored after being slabbed. Cgc holders clearly state they won't stop environmental factors. Makes you think of a good backboard and double Mylar provides better protection. +1 I love the look of mylites2. Add in a piece of microchamber and you're probably good to go. I do love slabs for the restoration detection though. Also when it comes to resale it seems a CGC slab is a wise investment. I'll "chip" in on the PQ issue...I think a more specific brittleness designation is a brilliant idea. PQ vs PColor...is it possible to have a WHITE PAGES BRITTLE???!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
