Speculating for non-speculators 1 1

[drotto]

7 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

If you are buying a book with the goal of the book going up in value with no interest in reading it or having in your collection then I think you have crossed over into the speculator side of the market.  People that buy for a collection are of course collectors regardless if they hope the book will go up while it's in their collection.  Speculation is a form of gambling since you are hoping to get ahead of the market and buy books cheap and then hope they go up.  

But I do think with the blue chip keys, you are unlikely to lose money.  Yes, I may have several thousand dolars tied up in an AF 15, but I know if I ever needed cash I could move the book fairly rapidly. In most cases I would get a least what I paid for the book, and most likely more providing that I had it for at least a few years. If I tried to move that flavour of the week variant from last year, who knows what i would get.

 

I buy the books a want for my pleasure.  It is a comfort to know that the high value keys I own are also a form of investment. Of course the hardest part for me of treating my books as just an investment is that there is the emotional attachment to some of the books, that despite of their value, would make them hard to let go.

Edited October 10, 2017 by drotto

[1Cool]

57 minutes ago, drotto said:

But I do think with the blue chip keys, you are unlikely to lose money.  Yes, I may have several thousand dolars tied up in an AF 15, but I know if I ever needed cash I could move the book fairly rapidly. In most cases I would get a least what I paid for the book, and most likely more providing that I had it for at least a few years. If I tried to move that flavour of the week variant from last year, who knows what i would get.

 

I buy the books a want for my pleasure.  It is a comfort to know that the high value keys I own are also a form of investment. Of course the hardest part for me of treating my books as just an investment is that there is the emotional attachment to some fo the books, that despite of their value, would make them hard to let go.

I consider people who buy blue chip books with the goal of getting long term gains is a comic investor.  They don't really have much insight in terms of what may be hot or could get hot.  They know Avengers 1 has gone up a bunch and hope the book will go up another 4x over the next 10 years.  Speculators are more looking to buy a book for $1 thinking the character will fit well into a show and if the character shows up the book becomes a $50 book.  There is risk in both ways of making money in comics but I see the speculators taking more risks to find the gem in the rough.

Edited October 10, 2017 by 1Cool

[alexgross.com]

buying a graded book should always be for future profit, since you can't enjoy reading it. raw books are the more complicated purchase, but in my view they are always books i want to read, re-read, or make a run with, and they shouldn't be terribly expensive. 

[CKinTO]

Interesting topic... I don't consider myself a "speculator". I buy a couple books every week for reading, and my personal collection has graded key books that I personally like / enjoy (usually 1st app of characters I liked growing up). However, I've more recently started to dabble in some mild "speculation" in 2 ways: 1) picking up a copy or two of a book (at cover price) that I have no interest in reading, but I think might go up (ie. Totally Awesome Hulk 22); or 2) buying a graded key book from a "motivated seller" or a cheap Ebay auction on a book that I think has become undervalued or I can get way on the cheap. 

On 1), it's fairly cheap, so I feel it has low risk. I go to my LCS every Wed morning anyways, pick up an extra book or two (choosing a high-grade copy) that I have no interest in reading, and just stash it away and see what happens.

On 2), this is a bit more murky, and I try to limit this to: i) only if I can get a significant deal, and ii) I think has the potential to go up again. This of course has a lot of subjectivity / personal opinion built into it. Interesting that a few posters above mentioned BA12 / 1st Harley, which is a book I think could be a good buying opportunity now after price has dipped somewhat after Suicide Squad movie-hype has died down, but before hype builds around the Gotham City Sirens movie and the new Joker / Harley movie that was announced at SDCC.

[Mercury Man]

Most people fall butt backwards into a Modern book that goes up (and retains) in value.   The first appearance of Harley Quinn was in a kiddie book.  Nobody was speculating on that book becoming some type of Modern key.   A lot of dumpster divers found it in the $1 bin when it was picking up steam, but I wouldn't call them speculators.   Most people who speculate on Modern books have more stories (and back issues) of disappointment than success, and that includes monetary success.

[FineCollector]

6 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I think that we all deep down buy for a hope of return "someday", whether through long-term hold/sell by us, kids (grand or great-grand) or family members. I think personally I spend money that I have no "need" of at the moment, but deep down with every purchase I think the logic is we can eventually get "some" money back that justifies some of our purchases. Meaning we justify by saying it isn't a complete waste. As far as profit, we all probably want that too, just some of us hold out longer than others hahaha

Disagree.  For some of us, owning a copy of our favorite issues is the end-goal.  If someone ever makes money off my collection, I know it's because someone dug them up from under my coffin!

[CKinTO]

5 minutes ago, FineCollector said:

Disagree.  For some of us, owning a copy of our favorite issues is the end-goal.  If someone ever makes money off my collection, I know it's because someone dug them up from under my coffin!

I'm sure this is a different strokes for different folks area, but I'm more in the @ADAMANTIUM camp on this one. While my PC of keys are all books that I tell myself are ones that I tell myself are "forever" books (and that's 95% true!), I'd be lying if I said at least some part of my buying decision doesn't consider what I could eventually sell it for wayyyy down the road. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

15 minutes ago, FineCollector said:

Disagree.  For some of us, owning a copy of our favorite issues is the end-goal.  If someone ever makes money off my collection, I know it's because someone dug them up from under my coffin!

I appreciate your that passionate

I wouldn't try to sway you to do otherwise, I guess "all" was too strong a word on my part. My bad 

[Mercury Man]

When you buy a new comic (Modern Age) off the rack, isn't it like going to see a movie or buying a magazine at Barnes and Noble?  You are paying for the entertainment of the story.  You can't resell the movie you just watched, and the magazine you spent $9.95 will wind up in your recycling bin in a year.  I get comics are unique in that there is a secondary market, with price guides and grading companies, and 'collectors',  but to maneuver through this maze of trying to turn a profit on something that was printed last week, instead of just enjoying this comic that just came out for the story, seems a bit audacious.  You would be better off saving the extra money you would have spent on multiple modern issues, and at the end of the year, buy a nice Silver Age book. 

[drotto]

57 minutes ago, CKinTO said:

I'm sure this is a different strokes for different folks area, but I'm more in the @ADAMANTIUM camp on this one. While my PC of keys are all books that I tell myself are ones that I tell myself are "forever" books (and that's 95% true!), I'd be lying if I said at least some part of my buying decision doesn't consider what I could eventually sell it for wayyyy down the road. 

As so many people I know have said, there is almost always a dollar figure that will force you to say yes.

[badback83]

I wouldn't call myself a speculator in the sense that I purchase a new book off the rack in hopes it shoots up dramatically in a short period of time.  Now, before purchasing  I do think of how easy a book (X-Men 1 for example) would be to sell if I had to sell it down the road at some point.  I usually take into account eye appeal, page quality, things like that.  Obviously, I want the book for my collection, or I wouldn't be considering the purchase.  But, I'd be lying if I said that I didn't think a little about the possible financial implications, good or bad, further down the road.  

[JazzMan]

There's been a couple of times I've speculated, but it's never been a driver for me.  I've probably done reverse speculations more than not - case in point I remember trading my Star Wars #1 for a Marvel 2-In-1 because that's what I collected.  Now, you must admit that the artwork in the early Star Wars was abysmal so it really didn't do it for me.  Last time I speculated was when there were rumors of Deathlok on Agents of SHIELD.  I got a nice copy and quickly let it go right after the reveal on the show.  Good payoff for the investment and time.  Glad I dumped it since the prices normalized shortly thereafter.

[Westy Steve]

23 hours ago, NoMan said:

Ok, that works! Thanks for the linguistic  help! . 

At what point does a purchase become about future profit? 

When you wonder if you should spend your money buying something else that you want instead of the item you're buying.

[ComicConnoisseur]

If you think about it some comics books are better bets than putting your money in a bank and letting it sit there. With inflation going up yearly the money in the bank becomes worth less.

An example is if you put $1,000 in a bank account 10 years ago it be worth less now because of inflation.

So believe or not buying that NM#98,ASM#129 or Incredible Hulk#181 now will probably be a better bet than just taking that same money and putting it in a savings account and letting it sit there.

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[atomised]

These days seems like you could pretty much throw a dart at a random page in the Gerber Photo-Journal Guide and you'll hit a golden age book worth investing in.  

Edited October 12, 2017 by atomised

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

On 10/10/2017 at 2:36 PM, ygogolak said:

For me it was when I realized that I could buy something for less than people (the market) would pay for it and enjoy doing it. I also got to the point where I had more comics than I wanted taking up space. Both have helped me keep my personal funds and my comic funds separate, which I find to be important and sometimes troubling in today's market. Buying on credit.

Yes, for me: comic books funds for comic book purchases; only cash (check), including time payments.

[TheFifthHorseman]

16 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

[Key comic books] will probably be a better bet than just taking that same money and putting it in a savings account and letting it sit there.

 

Always been my rationale.

To make money through financial institutions, a very L A R G E investment is needed.

[drotto]

It is nice and somewhat comforting to know that when it come to the true keys I own, if I truely ever needed the money I could sell.  Makes it easier to spend money on books knowing that it is not money lost.  This by no means applies to speculation.

[badback83]

18 minutes ago, drotto said:

It is nice and somewhat comforting to know that when it come to the true keys I own, if I truely ever needed the money I could sell.  Makes it easier to spend money on books knowing that it is not money lost.  This by no means applies to speculation.

I'll second that.

[1Cool]

20 minutes ago, drotto said:

It is nice and somewhat comforting to know that when it come to the true keys I own, if I truely ever needed the money I could sell.  Makes it easier to spend money on books knowing that it is not money lost.  This by no means applies to speculation.

It definitely is a more secure feeling to buy key books and sit on them.  The problem is finding the true keys for a good price is hard to do and if you are looking for short term profits then buying a FF 48 at market price and selling it for market price +5% is not going to get you very far unless you sit on it for awhile and wait for the market price to go up.  Using the X-Men 130 for example - you could have started buying them up when Suicide Squad came out and you noticed there seemed to be a huge upswing in strong female characters becoming popular.  Prices were pretty low back them on the X-Men 130 - fast forward a couple years and now the prices seem to be poised to go up a ton and cheap copies are hard to find.  You almost have to be ahead of the game or you are just playing catch up and hoping to grab a steal.  I could take a bath buying 20 nice copies of Spider-Woman 1 a bit ago for $5 each but the way I look at it is there is a market on the horizon so why not use some knowledge and guessing to hopefully make more money then just buying key books and sitting on them for several years.