Detective Comics #35 (Larson Pedigree) no longer PLOD 1 1

[VintageComics]

18 hours ago, oakman29 said:

Funny how pressing opened the door to other manipulation that seems to just be "okay" now.

Pressing was always going to be OK because it's too undedectable (with any degree of certainty) for anyone to try to detect it. And it is more or less benign.

Nobody is saying cleaning is 'OK', meaning it gets a hall pass. It's FREAKING noted on the label, people. It's noted on both labels. The only thing that has changed is the designation from Restoration to Conservation. It's still the SAME BOOK with the SAME INFORMATION.

[VintageComics]

6 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

1.  Dry cleaning -- blue label

2.  Chemical cleaning -- Restored

3.  Water cleaning -- Conserved

Dry cleaning is really just erasure.

I can understand the point of placing 'cleaning' under a conserved label. It removes things from the paper that potentially may be harmful to the paper (or book). That is likely the reasoning for the change (along with all the other things that have moved from a Restored to a Conserved label).

From what I understand, the reason for the change was so that the stigma of restoration would be removed from remedies which truly do help preserve the book structurally...because eventually, ALL books will need some form of work to preserve them. 

All of the work is still listed on the label and people can still choose based on the description

1) how much they want to pay

2) how much they want to avoid certain techniques

 

[adamstrange]

3 hours ago, VintageComics said:

2.  Chemical cleaning -- Restored

Some chemicals used for cleaning evaporate after use and are essentially undetectible.  They have minimal efficacy for common cover problems which is why water is the usual cleaning agent even with it's collateral damage.

[bronze johnny]

22 minutes ago, adamstrange said:

Some chemicals used for cleaning evaporate after use and are essentially undetectible.  They have minimal efficacy for common cover problems which is why water is the usual cleaning agent even with it's collateral damage.

Then why isn't removing rust from staples conservation rather than restoration?

[Gotham Kid]

Staple cleaning should be considered conservation imo.

[Timely]

2 hours ago, Gotham Kid said:

Staple cleaning should be considered conservation imo.

Removing rust from staples is conservation.

[bronze johnny]

2 hours ago, Timely said:

Removing rust from staples is conservation.

 

Not according to CCS...check out their FAQs on Restoration and Conservation- no where is it mentioned that cleaning staples is  conservation.

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/ccs-pressing/

Edited October 18, 2017 by bronze johnny

[Timely]

2 hours ago, bronze johnny said:

 

Not according to CCS...check out their FAQs on Restoration and Conservation- no where is it mentioned that cleaning staples is  conservation.

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/ccs-pressing/

I guess they Qualify those based on these results.

 

https://comics.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=790+231+52&Ntk=SI_Titles&Nty=1&Ntt=staples+cleaned&ic4=KeywordSearch-A-K-071316

[szav]

I don't really go after the kinds of books that are restored or have had conservation work done on them but I'm curious from those who have been watching  prices on these.  Typically, How much more does a conserved book get vs an equivalent graded purple label book?

Basically, how has the market borne out so far since the designation was added?  

[Sqeggs]

12 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Dry cleaning is really just erasure.

 

Good point.  Dry cleaning in this context means something very different from dry cleaning in the context of removing stains from clothing, where, of course, chemicals are used. 

[Sqeggs]

59 minutes ago, Timely said:

3 hours ago, bronze johnny said:

 

Not according to CCS...check out their FAQs on Restoration and Conservation- nowhere is it mentioned that cleaning staples is  conservation.

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/ccs-pressing/

I guess they Qualify those based on these results.

 

https://comics.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=790+231+52&Ntk=SI_Titles&Nty=1&Ntt=staples+cleaned&ic4=KeywordSearch-A-K-071316

Yet here https://www.cgccomics.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=4030& they state:

Introduction of the Conservation Scale
Specific repairs done to improve the structural integrity and long-term preservation of a comic book will now be classified as “conservation” and designated with a blue / purple label. These repairs include tear seals, support, staple replacement, piece reattachment and certain kinds of cleaning.

It would be very odd if staple cleaning would lead to a Restored label while staple replacement would get a Conserved label.

[MrBedrock]

1 hour ago, Timely said:

I guess they Qualify those based on these results.

 

https://comics.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=790+231+52&Ntk=SI_Titles&Nty=1&Ntt=staples+cleaned&ic4=KeywordSearch-A-K-071316

Obviously CGC "qualified" those books back when you worked there. Those are all very old label examples. They label them differently now.

How would you guys at the other grading service label those books? Do y'all even make a distinction between Conserved and Restored? 

Edited October 18, 2017 by MrBedrock

[MrBedrock]

Can anyone see my last post?

[Sqeggs]

8 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

Can anyone see my last post?

Yep.  Here it is:  "Can anyone see my last post?"

Anything else we can help you with? 

[N e r V]

48 minutes ago, szavisca said:

I don't really go after the kinds of books that are restored or have had conservation work done on them but I'm curious from those who have been watching  prices on these.  Typically, How much more does a conserved book get vs an equivalent graded purple label book?

Basically, how has the market borne out so far since the designation was added?  

I don’t either but that’s because I grew up in the time where most restoration wasn’t done by professionals looking to save or help books but by shady dealers or collectors trying to trick buyers into buying something for more money than what it’s worth. Sadly there’s still some out there that won’t disclose work done on books unless they are outed.

 

 

[N e r V]

6 hours ago, Timely said:

Removing rust from staples is conservation.

 

8 hours ago, Gotham Kid said:

Staple cleaning should be considered conservation imo.

 

I would rather have staples either cleaned or replaced and placed in a different holder (restored or conserved) than have rusty staples on a book in a regular holder. That’s going to do damage to the rest of the book over time and is something why the hobby needs to reconsider its attitude towards restored or conserved books that have had legit needed work done. The super HG restored “Frankenstein”books sold at ComicConnect aren’t helping matters with people understanding the need either. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

This is a good part of the reason why different colored labels were a problem from the get-go. People react viscerally to colors, and assign a form of emotional reaction to them that tends to overrule logic and reason when considering just what has been done, to what extent.

People even gave them epithets based on the color of the label...something as meaningless to the actual condition of the book as the font of the label. 

[batman_fan]

In general I prefer unrestored books but availability and price can provide motivation to purchase a book. Personally I prefer an easy way to distinguish between the various books such as color.  We have had heated arguments on purple labels before and never agree on an acceptable solution.   I bought this book several years back. The hammer price I paid was 1/5 guide for an unrestored copy which is probably closer to 1/10 what an unrestored copy would sell for.

 

[Gotham Kid]

40 minutes ago, N e r V said:

I would rather have staples either cleaned or replaced and placed in a different holder (restored or conserved) than have rusty staples on a book in a regular holder.

+1

[Gotham Kid]

1 hour ago, MrBedrock said:

2 hours ago, Timely said:

I guess they Qualify those based on these results.

 

https://comics.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=790+231+52&Ntk=SI_Titles&Nty=1&Ntt=staples+cleaned&ic4=KeywordSearch-A-K-071316

Obviously CGC "qualified" those books back when you worked there. Those are all very old label examples. They label them differently now.

How would you guys at the other grading service label those books? Do y'all even make a distinction between Conserved and Restored?