Detective Comics #35 (Larson Pedigree) no longer PLOD 1 1

[Red_Hood]

11 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

Who says I didn't...and why do you care?

I don't care... I'm being sarcastic.

[Red_Hood]

28 minutes ago, Red_Hood said:

So CGC has shifted it's view and the hobby is affected by it.  How can the standards just be changed by a company.  Who decided the rule change? Was there input from reputable experts in the hobby or does a company have the power to change the rule for the hobby.  I would love for there to actually be a true standard in the hobby.  Not one created and adjusted by a private company.

It seems my question got lost in the senseless act of choosing sides and debating around the bush.  Common practice for this forum.

 

[lou_fine]

46 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

Cleaned

https://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=700355

Any idea when this book was graded?   From the extremely low serial number, I assume this must have been very early on.  

So early in fact, that it looks like pressing was still considered to be restoration at that time as it is clearly included as one of the listed restorative work done on the book. 

So, it looks like both the Cleaned and the Pressed restoration notations were removed from the book when it was regraded. 

[MrBedrock]

11 minutes ago, Red_Hood said:

I don't care... I'm being sarcastic.

Oh, okay. So this thread is meant as sarcasm?

[N e r V]

7 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

Oh, okay. So this thread is meant as sarcasm?

[woowoo]

26 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

Oh, okay. So this thread is meant as sarcasm?

 

[Electron]

1 hour ago, Red_Hood said:

So CGC has shifted it's view and the hobby is affected by it.  How can the standards just be changed by a company.  Who decided the rule change? Was there input from reputable experts in the hobby or does a company have the power to change the rule for the hobby.  I would love for there to actually be a true standard in the hobby.  Not one created and adjusted by a private company.

CGC didn't change the rule for the hobby,they changed it for the product they're selling. You don't have to buy their product if you don't agree with the rule change.

[adamstrange]

Regardless of the intent or result, if the process used involves water to clean the book, then it will dissolve the sizing on the cover and the book will look and feel different.  You can re-size it but it can never get back to it's original state.

If you consider this process conservation, it's a pretty harsh one given the extent of the damage and irreversibility of the process.

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, Red_Hood said:

Changing the rules in the middle of the game.  So cleaning a cover isn't restoration anymore?  It slips under conservation now 

This rule change sure seems to allow for a lot of new manipulation in the hobby.

How do you feel about it?  Do you think it should be restoration or not.

 

1 hour ago, Red_Hood said:

So CGC has shifted it's view and the hobby is affected by it.  How can the standards just be changed by a company.  Who decided the rule change? Was there input from reputable experts in the hobby or does a company have the power to change the rule for the hobby.  I would love for there to actually be a true standard in the hobby.  Not one created and adjusted by a private company.

Actually, this change in their definition of restoration and adding in a separate category for Conservation doesn't really bother me that much since this change was clearly communicated to the collecting base, as follows:

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=4084&

What totally bothers me is when they make subtle, but obvious changes to their undisclosed grading standards so that certain defects will be given either lesser or greater weight in the determination of their final grades.  To me, this is really changing the rules in the middle of the game as it pretty well invalidates their previously graded books.  Doesn't really matter if this is due to a change in their grading teams, a shift in their business agenda, or a response to their competitor, it really shouldn't be done from my own personal point of view. 

Maybe I am just old school and can't change with the shifting winds like the newer CGC generation of collectors, but I prefer that things remain consistent over time, especially when it comes to the grading of the books. 

I guess the grade of a book is what it is, until it no longer is. 

Edited October 16, 2017 by lou_fine

[Robot Man]

Unless I'm blind, it makes me sick that some one "cleaned" off the pedigree markings.

[Hudson]

1 hour ago, woowoo said:

Hey Hudson when you clean your car do you not use chemicals ? What chemicals where used to make the paper that the book's where printed on/what chemicals are in the ink ? I like your Example.

 

[Electron]

2 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

Having been fortunate enough to have owned this book in the past I completely agree with the label. The cover was cleaned but as far as I am concerned nothing about this book was restored. It never had any pieces added, any color touch, any tears mended or reinforcement. It just had dirt removed from the cover. The conserved label tells any potential buyer exactly what they need to know. It has been cleaned, it is the Larson, and it is really beautiful.

I remember drooling over that book at your ranch house. It was so incredibly beautiful... Do you know for sure if it was dirt cleaned from the cover, or could it have been foxing? I wondered since foxing is so common on Larsons. If it was foxing then perhaps the conserved notation is really warranted as removing it helped preserve the book?

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, nearmint said:

Information is important, color is not.

Very nicely put and can't say it any better than this. 

[adamstrange]

22 minutes ago, Hudson said:

Hey Hudson when you clean your car do you not use chemicals ? What chemicals where used to make the paper that the book's where printed on/what chemicals are in the ink ? I like your Example.

When I clean my car, I try to use a solution that does not damage the paint.  Water will not damage paint. 

Water will damage a comic book cover.

Edited October 16, 2017 by adamstrange

[woowoo]

23 minutes ago, Hudson said:

 

 468 4 speed 4.11  

Edited October 16, 2017 by woowoo

[Hudson]

Just now, woowoo said:

[woowoo]

2 minutes ago, Hudson said:

With that 468 it top's out at 112mph have to change the fuel line from the small block to half inch. I cant get anymore with that fuel line that came with the car

[N e r V]

Conservation Repairs
Conservation repairs are performed with the intent of preserving the structural or chemical integrity of a comic book using professional techniques and materials. It excludes aesthetic repairs such as color touch and piece fill. All conserved grades must satisfy the CGC quality scale of "A" and quantity scale of "1".
Tear seals
Spine split seals
Reinforcement
Piece reattachment
Some cover or interior cleaning (water or solvent)
Staples cleaned or replaced
Some leaf casting
De-acidification
Materials Used for Conservation Repairs:

Rice paper
Wheat glue
Vintage staples
Archival tape

 

The above is from CGC. I think you could say most of that fits into the general meaning of conservation with the cleaning aspect being the one item challenged.

Using the wording “some” does that mean there’s a limit to how much cleaning is allowed on a book to get the conserved label? If so, how limited is it?

Also besides the possible enhancements to a book with cleaning is there any reason it would be used to aid in maintaining the books condition from getting worse in some way over time? For example cleaning or replacing a rusty staple makes perfect sense in a conserved book because left untouched it will continue to damage a book over time.

 

[sfcityduck]

15 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Also besides the possible enhancements to a book with cleaning is there any reason it would be used to aid in maintaining the books condition from getting worse in some way over time? For example cleaning or replacing a rusty staple makes perfect sense in a conserved book because left untouched it will continue to damage a book over time.

 

"Cleaning" a book to stabilize or redress foxing would prevent further deterioration of the book.

 

[Greenlake]

1 hour ago, adamstrange said:

When I clean my car, I try to use a solution that does not damage the paint.  Water will not damage paint. 

Water will damage a comic book cover.

I don't know about that. If I plan on taking a long shower sometimes I'll bring a pre-Robin Tec in to read. It keeps the dirt off of them and according to the labeling now I'm actually conserving the books. They should last longer now thanks to me!

Edited October 17, 2017 by Greenlake