pemart1966 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 On 9/30/2019 at 10:30 AM, sarvaj said: You know, there's no direct indication that these books were printed in Canada. Most people assume this because the interiors are black-and-white, but they have no indicia and no marking to link them to any of the Canadian publishers that were in operation at the time, or any other indication that they were printed and distributed in Canada. Even the CGC labels choose not to call them Canadian editions. I can't call them Canadian until we have proof that they are and I wonder if we ever will...? There are CGC labels that refer to them as Canadian editions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) On 9/30/2019 at 10:30 AM, sarvaj said: You know, there's no direct indication that these books were printed in Canada. Most people assume this because the interiors are black-and-white, but they have no indicia and no marking to link them to any of the Canadian publishers that were in operation at the time, or any other indication that they were printed and distributed in Canada. Even the CGC labels choose not to call them Canadian editions. I can't call them Canadian until we have proof that they are and I wonder if we ever will...? Here's why I think that these 2 giants were Canadian only distribution: 1. The contents were all black and white: Kids in the US at that time were used to colour comics. I don't think that kids in the US would have been too accepting of paying 25c to see nothing but black and white images when all of the other comics at that time were being produced in colour. Canadian kids, to the contrary, wouldn't have batted an eye at black and white contents - they were used to it to some degree. Doubtful that Goodman would have issued a book in black and white when every other comic, including all books in his own Timely line, was in colour. 2. The "recent content" of each issue: Each of these books contained Timely issues that were fairly recent releases. The Captain America giant (consensus is that it was a 1942 issue) contains two 1942 books and the Marvel Mystery Comics giant (consensus is that it was a 1943 issue) contains two 1943 books. Why would Goodman release two giants that consisted of books that were only a couple of months old at the time? Chances are pretty good that any kid that collected these two titles had the individual issues already as they had been released only a few months prior to the release of the giants. 3. The cover price: Going hand in hand with the "recent content" point above is the 25c cover price. An American kid that had bought the individual issues contained therein, would have paid 20 cents in total. Even if he didn't own those random issues, he could waltz down to the pharmacy, local news stand etc and buy the two current month's issues for 20 cents and have a nickel left over. No way a kid would pay more than the cost of two individual issues to get an inferior product. 4. Blank inside front cover and blank back cover: No way Goodman would have released a book in the US and not have sold ad space in it. 5. Distribution: One would expect way more copies to have surfaced if this book had been released in the US. I don't think that these were "test marketed" in the US. There was too much of a time gap between the releases. Goodman would have known the sales result for the first giant by the time the second one was released so there would have been no need to test market the second giant - either way. 6. No copies in Pedigree Finds: To my knowledge, neither issue has ever been found in any vintage OO US pedigree collection (or Canadian for that matter). 7. Stories re original purchase: I've heard a few stories of original purchases in Canada but none, that I can recall, regarding original purchases in the US. Timely Comics had been in the Canadian market in the early 1940s but had been shut out for a while (war time non essentials) by the time these giants were produced. Timely may have produced these annuals not only to circumvent the non essential import rules and sell books but also to guard the copyright status of their title names, character names and likenesses etc in Canada. We see the prominent copyright notice at the bottom of page 1 that references both Canada and the US. They knew that the war would eventually end and probably wanted to be poised to re enter the Canadian market immediately when it did end - copyrights intact. Goodman probably arranged a quick deal with a Canadian printer and publisher to get these produced. I don't think that any part of these books was printed in the US. That would have violated Canadian legislation and that's something of which Goodman would have been aware. The art for the contents and covers already existed so he wouldn't have had to pay artists for new material. He would have been able to get away with printing in black and white so he would have saved more money there. Edited February 26, 2020 by pemart1966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 hour ago, pemart1966 said: Here's why I think that these 2 giants were Canadian only distribution: 1. The contents were all black and white: Kids in the US at that time were used to colour comics. I don't think that kids in the US would have been too accepting of paying 25c to see nothing but black and white images when all of the other comics at that time were being produced in colour. Canadian kids, to the contrary, wouldn't have batted an eye at black and white contents - they were used to it to some degree. Doubtful that Goodman would have issued a book in black and white when every other comic, including all books in his own Timely line, was in colour. 2. The "recent content" of each issue: Each of these books contained Timely issues that were fairly recent releases. The Captain America giant (consensus is that it was a 1942 issue) contains two 1942 books and the Marvel Mystery Comics giant (consensus is that it was a 1943 issue) contains two 1943 books. Why would Goodman release two giants that consisted of books that were only a couple of months old at the time? Chances are pretty good that any kid that collected these two titles had the individual issues already as they had been released only a few months prior to the release of the giants. 3. The cover price: Going hand in hand with the "recent content" point above is the 25c cover price. An American kid that had bought the individual issues contained therein, would have paid 20 cents in total. Even if he didn't own those random issues, he could waltz down to the pharmacy, local news stand etc and buy the two current month's issues for 20 cents and have a nickel left over. No way a kid would pay more than the cost of two individual issues to get an inferior product. 4. Blank inside front cover and blank back cover: No way Goodman would have released a book in the US and not have sold ad space in it. 5. Distribution: One would expect way more copies to have surfaced if this book had been released in the US. I don't think that these were "test marketed" in the US. There was too much of a time gap between the releases. Goodman would have known the sales result for the first giant by the time the second one was released so there would have been no need to test market the second giant - either way. 6. No copies in Pedigree Finds: To my knowledge, neither issue has ever been found in any vintage OO US pedigree collection (or Canadian for that matter). 7. Stories re original purchase: I've heard a few stories of original purchases in Canada but none, that I can recall, regarding original purchases in the US. Timely Comics had been in the Canadian market in the early 1940s but had been shut out for a while (war time non essentials) by the time these giants were produced. Timely may have produced these annuals not only to circumvent the non essential import rules and sell books but also to guard the copyright status of their title names, character names and likenesses etc in Canada. We see the prominent copyright notice at the bottom of page 1 that references both Canada and the US. They knew that the war would eventually end and probably wanted to be poised to re enter the Canadian market immediately when it did end - copyrights intact. Goodman probably arranged a quick deal with a Canadian printer and publisher to get these produced. I don't think that any part of these books was printed in the US. That would have violated Canadian legislation and that's something of which Goodman would have been aware. The art for the contents and covers already existed so he wouldn't have had to pay artists for new material. He would have been able to get away with printing in black and white so he would have saved more money there. Great summary Pemart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) One of the rarest Canadian Golden age comics Top-flight comics only issue Published in January 1942 by Hillsborough studios in Toronto Edited February 28, 2020 by eccomic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Stephen, I love the Fred Kelly cover. What else does it have going for it? I don't know too much about the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNerdyCanuck Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Dagar Comics - Published by Pioneer Publications (1948). This book feels like it's made out of tissue paper, cheap Canadians hahaha, I love it! AJD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 A very important book arrived today Triumph-Adventure Comics # 5 which completes my set of this title issues # 1-6 which is the most important and ELUSIVE set of the Canadian Golden age introducing Nelvana of the Northern Lights. AJD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 My virtually complete run of Triumph Comics 1941-1946 including the Nelvana One-Shot and her last appearance in Super Duper Comics # 3 in May 1946 AJD and gino2paulus2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 13 hours ago, eccomic said: My virtually complete run of Triumph Comics 1941-1946 including the Nelvana One-Shot and her last appearance in Super Duper Comics # 3 in May 1946 Tremendous accomplishment! How many are you missing to complete the run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, pemart1966 said: Tremendous accomplishment! How many are you missing to complete the run? Triumph comics number 10,23 and 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 Original bell features artist contract signed by the founder Cyril Bell and artist Fred Kelly that every artist had to sign when working for about Bell feature Publishing located on York Street in Toronto circa 1944 from my collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 Bell features publishing patent letters to apply for a distribution in the United States circa 1946 from my collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Very cool. Thanks for posting. These particular forms are blank though. Did they ever file these notices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 2 hours ago, pemart1966 said: Very cool. Thanks for posting. These particular forms are blank though. Did they ever file these notices? They must have because Bell Features did see distributorship in the United States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) Here are a couple of examples Edited March 4, 2020 by eccomic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 And some more examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 What distinguishes a Canadian copy from a US copy? I notice that some of the US copies you've posted have the UK price on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) Nelvana splash page original art beautifully rendered by Adrian Dingle from Triumph Comics # 29 Circa 1945 from my collection. NOTE: ... and it is it the ONLY known surviving piece of Nelvana art. ... Even the Library and Archives Canada does not possess a single page, and they have 2200 pieces of Bell Features original art pages Edited March 5, 2020 by eccomic MusterMark, AJD and gino2paulus2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 39 minutes ago, eccomic said: Nelvana splash page original art beautifully rendered by Adrian Dingle from Triumph Comics # 29 Circa 1945 from my collection. NOTE: ... and it is it the ONLY known surviving piece of Nelvana art. ... Even the Library and Archives Canada does not possess a single page, and they have 2200 pieces of Bell Features original art pages Holy mackerel! How in the world did all of that art end up there? Astonishing when you consider the amount of golden age art that was destroyed south of the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, pemart1966 said: Holy mackerel! How in the world did all of that art end up there? Astonishing when you consider the amount of golden age art that was destroyed south of the border. The artwork was donated by the founders of Nelvana Animation Studios to the library and archives Canada In 1972 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
