proper comic books storage condition? 0

[Nook5733]

Hi, I'm new to this forum , and I would like to ask for guidance regarding how to properly store comics (as I'm new to comics collecting in general) and also I have some concern as currently i'm living in a small apartment with one flatmate and she likes to iron her clothes in the living room sometimes I'm a bit concerned could the heat generate from Iron be enough to damage my collections by any mean? (since as far as I know Iron can heat up to around 200 C+ but I'm not sure how much heat will travel through the air).

Thank you for any advice

Nook

[sfcityduck]

5 hours ago, Nook5733 said:

Hi, I'm new to this forum , and I would like to ask for guidance regarding how to properly store comics (as I'm new to comics collecting in general) and also I have some concern as currently i'm living in a small apartment with one flatmate and she likes to iron her clothes in the living room sometimes I'm a bit concerned could the heat generate from Iron be enough to damage my collections by any mean? (since as far as I know Iron can heat up to around 200 C+ but I'm not sure how much heat will travel through the air).

Thank you for any advice

Nook

An iron is not going to give off enough heat to impact your comics unless you iron your comics.

As a general rule, however, comics should be stored in a cool dry place.  Like a cedar lined unheated basement closet in Denver (GA comic collector joke).  If your apartment is hot (whether from sunlight or heaters), that's not good.  It's even worse if its hot and steamy (e.g. if you have steam heat venting a lot into your apartment).  My advice, just store your comics, bagged and boarded in boxes, in a dark closet.

Edited October 20, 2017 by sfcityduck

[newshane]

Welcome to the boards!

A few years ago, I did some research and posted a series of threads on this topic. I will repost here:

I've spent quite a lot of time over the last few days researching the optimal storage conditions for my CGC collection. Once I complete the Spawn run, I intend to entomb the collection for the long-haul. At first, I considered custom wooden filing cabinets. Some of these cabinets were made out of genuine hardwoods treated with various stains and sealants; other companies used particleboard with a melamine finish. One company even lined the drawers of the cabinets with cedar. This was done in an effort to guard against pest infestation.

 

At first, I saw a great deal of promise in some of the "wooden" products. I even researched the best specie of wood to use. After spending so much time researching wood, I eventually learned that the material is NOT IDEAL for the long-term storage of paper! Along with nearly any of the associated finishing materials or coatings, wood is responsible for a fair amount of off-gassing. Overtime, this can lead to damage. Dense woods, such as oak, are especially prone to off-gassing. The same is true for particleboard. Ditto for sealants and other chemicals used to finish wood.

 

Remember, your encapsulated comics are slightly vulnerable to the atmosphere. As proven in an earlier experiment documented in my journal, we know that the inner well of the slab is vulnerable to water penetration. In other words, the inner well is not COMPLETELY sealed, even if you do have to use scissors or an Exacto knife to cut through the plastic. Air exchange is possible. Your comic still breathes. So over many, many years, WHAT exactly, is the quality of the air your comics are breathing?

 

If your comics are stored in wooden cabinetry, they are susceptible to the oils and elements that leach off the wood and into the air.

 

After using the board's search function to peruse threads with useful information on the topic, I learned a great deal. I would like to put most of this is one place, and I may add to this in the future. So here we go...

 

WHY WOOD IS BAD:

 

Do not use wooden shelving or cabinetry for paper and film materials.

Wooden shelving, particularly shelving made of particle board and plywood,

gives off acidic gases that can contaminate and accelerate the deterioration of paper

and film. Paint and shellacs also give off gases that can contaminate documents and

hasten their destruction. Moreover, wooden shelving is flammable and that is another

great danger to paper and film documents.

 

- Source: Tennessee State Archives

 

Harmful acids and other substances, however, are emitted by wood, wood composites, and some sealants and adhesives. Although the levels of emissions are highest initially, in most cases volatiles are present for the life of the materials. To avoid potential damage to collections, storage furniture made of wood or wood products should be avoided.

 

- Source: Northeast Document Conservation Center

 

...paper and textiles will be harmed by the oils and fumes in cedar chests, says Museum of the Rockies registrar.

 

- Source: Montana State University

 

STEEL WITH A BAKED ENAMEL FINISH - THE EXPERTS SLIGHTLY DISAGREE:

 

Use heavy-gauge steel shelving and cabinetry with stable baked enamel finish for paper and film materials.

 

- Source: Tennessee State Archives

 

The key word there was stable and that's where the pros disagree. As it turns out, not all baked enamel finishes are created the same way. Read what the Northeast Document Center had to say about the topic:

 

Questions, however, have been raised about the possibility that the baked enamel coating may give off formaldehyde and other volatiles harmful to collections if it has not been properly baked (not long enough at high enough temperatures). This concern is especially serious when collections are stored on book shelves in an area that is enclosed or has poor air circulation, or are stored in closed furniture such as map cases, file cabinet drawers, and book cases with solid doors.

 

Because of this concern about off-gassing, baked enamel furniture is no longer widely recommended unless it has been properly baked. For us to be certain that it has, the furniture must be tested. Testing should comply with ASTM (American Society of Testing Materials) E-595. 1 This testing requires the use of sophisticated analytical equipment.

 

Sounds to me like it would be easier to go with a different material.

 

POWDER-COATED STEEL IS A BETTER OPTION:

 

Steel storage furniture with various powder coatings appears to avoid the off-gassing problems associated with baked enamel. Powder coatings of finely divided, synthetic polymer materials are fused onto the steel. Testing done thus far indicates that the coatings are chemically stable, present minimal threat of volatile evocation, and so are safe for the storage of valuable materials.

 

- Source: Northeast Document Conservation Center

 

ANODIZED ALUMINUM IS THE BEST:

 

It is lighter than steel and very strong. No off-gassing at all. But it's more than likely going to be cost-prohibitive. As a result, I think that power-coated steel is the material that would provide the greatest bang for the buck and will probably be the material I choose for my storage cabinets.

 

SO WHAT IF I'M ALREADY INVESTED IN WOOD? SHOULD I FREAK OUT?

 

No. There is a solution. It's a product called Marvelseal and it's available from this website. Below is a description from the site:

 

The MARVELSEAL® family of Barriers is the Industry Standard in protection of Art and Artifacts during shipment and storage. All barriers offer excellent protection against the transmission of water vapor and other atmospheric gasses. All are economical, flexible and easy to fabricate…and are ideal for lining the inside of shipping crates and exhibit cases and for lining shelves with the objective of eliminating off-gassing from exposed wooden surfaces.

 

The best Marvelseal product seems to be 1311, which is a lamination of Cloth/Foil/Poly and offers excellent MVTR protection and is ideal for easily attaching to wooden crates or shelving using wood glue or other adhesives. This seems to be the ideal solution for the concerned collector who is already using wood cabinets.

 

WHAT IF I STILL INSIST ON WOOD CABS? HOW CAN I MINIMIZE THE POTENTIAL FOR LONG-TERM DAMAGE?

 

1. Use a raw wood finish for the interiors of the drawers.

2. Use a low-acidic, soft wood like poplar, which doesn't off-gas as much as oak or other harder species of wood. I'd use poplar for the drawers and a harder wood for the exterior. After all, you want your cabinet to resist dings and damage over the years. Poplar and pine dent up fairly easily.

3. Line the interior of the drawers with the aforementioned Marvelseal product.

 

DOES ANY OF THIS REALLY MATTER? AM I TAKING IT TOO FAR?

 

I probably am. But I'm approaching the subject from the viewpoint of someone who has the utmost concern for the details. I think that people, myself included, ultimately spend too much time thinking about these sort of micro-conditions. After all, comics from the Edgar Church collection were simply stored in tall, vertical stacks and without the benefit of all the plastics and acid-free materials available to the modern collection. Perhaps we do over-think stuff, but studying about the best ways to conserve a collection has given me a lot of unexpected joy. It's part of the fun of the hobby, at least to me.

 

* * * * *

 

There are many other factors to consider when building the prime storage area for your CGC slabs. We just now covered the appropriate kind of material for the cabinets. We've talked about the dangers of off-gassing. In the next post, I will discuss how I intend to "accessorize" my cabinets in a way that will further protect against atmospheric pollutants, temperature and humidity fluctuations, light, theft, and insect intrusion.

 

Bottom line is that wood is not the best material to use in your cabinets if you intend to store paper for the very long haul (measured in decades, not years). Power-coated steel or anodized aluminum aren't nearly as beautiful or as romantic as wood, but the alloys offer the greatest long-term protection.

 

More on this later...

 

and I wrote lately regarding Neil Gaiman. I will have a Gaiman-related announcement for you soon. I'm really pumped.

[newshane]

Below is the second part of a series of posts on building the perfect storage cabinet...

 

* * * * *

 

STEEL - IT STILL AIN'T PERFECT! SOME CONSIDERATIONS...

 

The serious collector should store his or her collection in a room where the temperature and humidity are under strict control. After researching the use of steel as a construction material in cabinets used to store comics, I discovered that it's possible for condensation to develop inside of a closed steel cabinet. However, this largely applies to steel cabinets that are stored in basements, sheds, attics, or any other area that isn't climate-controlled.

 

Once again, I quote the Northeast Document Conservation Center :

 

Condensation can be a problem in closed steel cabinets when the relative humidity where the cabinets are stored fluctuates.Condensation can result in rusting or mold growth in cabinets. For this reason, conditions in closed cabinets should be monitored. This is most easily accomplished by the use of dial hygrometers or paper-based humidity indicator cards. These devices do not have a high degree of accuracy, but they are sufficient to indicate problematic conditions. If possible, the use of closed steel cabinets should be avoided unless the cabinets are well ventilated or the relative humidity is closely controlled and monitored.

 

After considering the situation, I think that a "sealed" metal cabinet should be fine as long as it's stored in a climate-controlled area. Building vents into strategic locations along the back of the cabinet is another option, especially if they are designed in a way that allows for quick and convenient opening and closing. If nothing else, simply opening the cab for an hour or so every day or every other day should also do the trick. You could also improve the interior environment of the steel shelves by using the Marvelseal product mentioned in part one of this series.

 

The key is to ensure stability in regards to temperature and humidity!

 

You also want to make sure that the temp inside of the cabinet is equal to or greater than the ambient temperature of the room. Condensation could happen if the interior somehow got colder than the rest of the room.

 

What are some other ways to protect against possible fluctuations in temperature and humidity?

 

1. Make sure that your cabinet is at least a few inches or more off the ground. This helps ensure that the contents on the bottom shelves aren't subjected to cold floors and/or flooding.

 

2. Don't store your cabinet on a concrete floor.

 

3. Avoid placing the cabinet close to exterior windows or heating and air vents along the floor - places where the room temperature is almost certain to vary. If possible, try to avoid placing the cab against a wall along the exterior of your house. These are all examples of "micro-climates" that can develop inside our homes.

 

4. Don't place the cabinet along a wall stuffed with water pipes! If a leak happens...

 

5. Use the appropriate mix of fans, air-cleaners, and de-humidifiers to ensure the circulation of clean air.

 

Bottom line? Make sure you monitor the interior conditions of the cabinet. There shouldn't be any problems at all if the steel cabinets are stored in a place with climate control, but a good measure of common sense, and a built-in vent, can make all the difference!

 

* I thought about the problem of dust or other air-contaminants entering the cab through the vent. While there are some solutions to this problem, I don't think it will be a problem for CGC slabs sealed and stored in Mylar bags with archival tape.

 

* * * * *

 

Next up...should I store my slabs flat, upright, or spine-down? Get the real low-down, coming soon...

[newshane]

Now that I've discussed the proper storage environment, I'd like to provide some information in regards to storage methods.

 

Should I store my slabs flat, upright, or spine-down?

 

The CGC started encapsulating comics after the turn of the millennium, so the very oldest "slabs" are now around 14 years-old. The truth is that we have little to no true empirical data on the subject. In short, we still don't have enough evidence to suggest that one method is better than another. However, we do know quite a bit about what happens to raw comics overtime and can make guesses based on these observations.

 

Most of our raw collections are probably bagged and boarded and stored vertically in cardboard boxes or filing cabinets. I've personally never witnesses a bagged and boarded comic suffer direct damage from being stored upright, as long as the comics were packed snugly enough to prevent them from falling over inside of the box.

 

So is it safe to assume that our slabs are safe from damage if they are stored vertically and upright?

 

The jury is still out on this one. I don't seek to make a definitive declaration on the matter; as I stated earlier, it's just too early to really tell. Instead, I hope to offer information from various sources.

 

Some sources claim that long-term upright storage will allow gravity to exert downward pressure on the staples of a comic. Other experts, like Joey at CFP Comics and Services, believe that comics covers with an overhang are especially susceptible to the long-term effects of gravity. As a result, some people suggest storing slabs flat. Others recommend stashing them away with the spine of the comic facing the floor.

 

So what does the CGC say about the matter?

 

In short, they support the traditional vertical storage method:

 

"We suggest that all graded comics be stored as you would any other comic, standing upright in an archival safe comic box in a cool dry place."

 

- Wm. Eric Downton, CGC Receiving Manager

 

What do professional book conservationists, libraries, and museums say about it?

 

Well, it depends on the size of the book you are storing.

 

To avoid damaging bindings, books need to be shelved upright and supported. House very large or heavy volumes lying flat, because upright storage can result in heavy books pulling away from their bindings.

 

- Northeast Document Conservation Center

 

They also point out that storing books with the spine-down is far, far preferable to storing them with the spine-up, although they seem to suggest spine-down storage is preferable only if "moving or rearranging the books is not possible."

 

...store volumes with the spine down (storing a book with the spine up may cause the text to pull out of the binding due to its weight).

 

- Northeast Document Conservation Center

 

The expert consensus seems to be that it's perfectly acceptable to vertically store comics and slabs in the upright position. It's also okay to store slabs flat, because the hard outer well, in concert with the inner well, prevents the type of spine-roll that can sometimes occur when comics are stored flat and in vertical stacks. The following summary from panelology.com is so well-written that I've decided to quote it below verbatim:

 

The Northeast Document Conservation Center (a non-profit regional conservation center in the United States, founded in 1973 and counting amongst its clients the Boston Public Library and Harvard University) advised that although vertical storage in office files or in upright flip-top archival document storage boxes is acceptable for legal-sized or smaller documents, any objects larger than 15" x 9" should be stored flat.

 

This is due to the pull forces which documents stored in an upright position are subject to, and it is safe to assume that what is best practice for larger size documents works out well for comic books as well.

 

So what's the final word?

 

During my research, I discovered that most sources, including the CGC itself, recommend the traditional method of storing comics, and slabs, upright. I found nothing to suggest that a slab would be harmed by storing them flat, although I'd be careful about how high I piled my stacks. It's important to keep in mind that the slabs towards the bottom of the stack will bear a majority of the loaded weight. I've also discovered nothing wrong with storing slabs spine-down, although I still struggle with the logic used by proponents of this method. Yes, the spine is the strongest part of the book and could probably do a better job at resisting the effects of gravity over-time. But isn't it still susceptible to "gravitational" damage, assuming that such a thing really happens in the first place? I think it's too early to tell.

 

Bottom line? There is probably nothing wrong with storing the slabs upright, flat, or spine-down. Whichever method you choose, I think it's more important to handle and store them carefully. The idea is to handle them as little as possible and to protect them from jostling or any sort of vibration.

 

* * * * *

[newshane]

And as far as storing non-graded comics, there is really only one way to go in my opinion...

1. E. Gerber MyLyte2 (Mylar Bag)

2. E. Gerber Fullback (Backing Board)

3. Corrugated plastic boxes at minimum.

Always pay attention to the environmental guidelines as outlined in my articles.

[Wilson3d]

Thanks for posting that again newshane! Always a good read. I need to past it into a word doc.

 

[Nook5733]

first of all , I'm terribly sorry for late reply as my grandma recently got admitted to the hospital so I don't have much time to go online as of late  , and thanks again everyone for your advice and input on how to properly store my collection especially since I'm a bit OCD when it come to my collections , sadly financial-wise as I'm still just a college kids , I'm limited to storing my comicbooks and some old books in an acid free plastic bag (which I then put them in a cardboard box and put the rest of them on a bookshelf in living room area). but reading through your guidelines I'm starting to developed some concerns regarding my collections, so hmm regarding the ironing thingy won't that cause the temperature in the room to fluctuate as well? since in one of the things you list not to do is to avoid placing the cabinet in places where the room temperature will fluctuate? and my collection is just in a cardboard box? and also one other thing I would like to ask since perfume contains alcohol is that dangerous towards my collection as well? (eventhough it's in plastic bag/sleeve I just would like to make sure). Again thanks so much for all the reply guys, I didn't expect this fast reply and very informative guidelines thanks!!! much appreciated ! 

[sfcityduck]

4 hours ago, Nook5733 said:

first of all , I'm terribly sorry for late reply as my grandma recently got admitted to the hospital so I don't have much time to go online as of late  , and thanks again everyone for your advice and input on how to properly store my collection especially since I'm a bit OCD when it come to my collections , sadly financial-wise as I'm still just a college kids , I'm limited to storing my comicbooks and some old books in an acid free plastic bag (which I then put them in a cardboard box and put the rest of them on a bookshelf in living room area). but reading through your guidelines I'm starting to developed some concerns regarding my collections, so hmm regarding the ironing thingy won't that cause the temperature in the room to fluctuate as well? since in one of the things you list not to do is to avoid placing the cabinet in places where the room temperature will fluctuate? and my collection is just in a cardboard box? and also one other thing I would like to ask since perfume contains alcohol is that dangerous towards my collection as well? (eventhough it's in plastic bag/sleeve I just would like to make sure). Again thanks so much for all the reply guys, I didn't expect this fast reply and very informative guidelines thanks!!! much appreciated ! 

I'm beginning to think you just want an excuse to kick out your roommate, LOL!  I don't think you need to worry about perfume. 

There's a lot I don't agree with in NewShane's post.   Personally, I think that storing your comics bagged with an acid free backing board, in an acid free box, is the way to go.  That's what most folks do.  For a bit of perspective, the best collection ever discovered was stored for two to four decades unbagged in a cedar closet.  The best Action 1 ever graded was stored in a wood box.  The best collection I've ever seen posted on this website (Bangzoom's) has been stored in non-Mylar bags on wooden shelves on the walls of a room for five decades.  My own collection was stored for four decades in cardboard boxes and many are now grading out 9.8 white.

Temperature fluctuations are a fact of life.  So are humidity fluctuations.  They should not be a problem.  An Iron is not going to cause an appreciable temperature fluctuations unless your comics are stored above the ironing board and your roommate uses a lot of steam.  The problem is high temperature.  Throw a comic on the dashboard of a car for a hot day and you'll see the enemy.  Keep your comics out of sunlight, preferably in a safe cool dark place (closets are best).

 

Temperature fluctuations are a fact of life. 

[Get Marwood & I]

I found this helpful note in with a recent ebay purchase and thought I'd share it here.

 

See - ebay sellers aren't all bad you know 

 

[newshane]

On 10/23/2017 at 6:25 PM, sfcityduck said:

There's a lot I don't agree with in NewShane's post.   Personally, I think that storing your comics bagged with an acid free backing board, in an acid free box, is the way to go. 

Since I also believe that acid free bags, boards, and boxes are the way to go, I'm not sure where we disagree. 

 

Also, maybe you didn't read my entire post. At the end, I say the following:

I'm approaching the subject from the viewpoint of someone who has the utmost concern for the details. I think that people, myself included, ultimately spend too much time thinking about these sort of micro-conditions. After all, comics from the Edgar Church collection were simply stored in tall, vertical stacks and without the benefit of all the plastics and acid-free materials available to the modern collection. Perhaps we do over-think stuff, but studying about the best ways to conserve a collection has given me a lot of unexpected joy. It's part of the fun of the hobby, at least to me.

Once again, my posts were based on the findings of scientists and people whose job in life is to preserve and care for paper. People are free to believe what they wish. As for me, I will go the extra 1% when it comes to storing my books. 

Finally, you say "temperature fluctuations are a fact of life." 

So are air conditioners and dehumidifiers.

Since we are talking facts, let's acknowledge that paper does not like drastic changes in humidity and temperature. The methods that sustain a book for 40 years may not sustain the book for 200 years. 

 

[newshane]

42 minutes ago, Tony Squawk said:

Did you find that list of major dealers that press each and every book?

That has nothing to do with this thread. 

 

[ExNihilo]

3 hours ago, Tony Squawk said:

I think this guy needs to educate himself abnout Gerber Full and Half Backs.

Even then, the point about double bagging and leaving the board between the two bags is a valid idea that I've bandied about myself.  I'm just too lazy to remove my books from the mylar to re-adjust them in such a way.  It would also require me to buy bigger fullbacks to accomodate the larger outer bag.

[newshane]

22 minutes ago, Tony Squawk said:

Sorry, put up a link to the correct thread where you posted the list.

I do not respond to trolls, other than to tell them I do not respond.

Consider yourself blocked. 

If you truly wanted to know, you would have sent a PM. I made it very clear in the thread you're referencing that I would not publicly release my information, and my mind has not changed. Why not pick up the phone and start asking for yourself? 

Instead, it's clear that you are baiting in an attempt to derail the thread or slander a group of people. Matches up with your post count and content, which indicates that you are a shill. 

Happy trails. 

[cbbcomics]

On 10/19/2017 at 8:08 PM, newshane said:

And as far as storing non-graded comics, there is really only one way to go in my opinion...

1. E. Gerber MyLyte2 (Mylar Bag)

2. E. Gerber Fullback (Backing Board)

3. Corrugated plastic boxes at minimum.

Always pay attention to the environmental guidelines as outlined in my articles.

Thank you very much for sharing the results of your research.  It was very thorough and the synopses at the end is an added bonus.  I'm sure this is a sticky somewhere on the boards, but if it's not, it certainly needs to be!

[Turnando]

On 10/23/2017 at 12:18 PM, Nook5733 said:

I'm still just a college kids , I'm limited to storing my comicbooks and some old books in an acid free plastic bag (which I then put them in a cardboard box and put the rest of them on a bookshelf in living room area).

On a bookshelf is not too bad.  At least they are off the floor.  I keep most of mine in cardboard boxes made for storing comics (OFF THE FLOOR). I keep some on a shelf because I love their covers and like to look at them without digging through a box.

 The only problem I've had with the ones on the shelf is people taking them off the shelf to look at them.  People who see a book on a shelf that interests them will instinctively touch it or pick it up.

I'd get those ones of yours off the shelf and into a comic box.  A college apartment is a scary place to have any property you care about... it will get vomited on, stolen, or lit on fire unless things have changed since I was in college. 

Put the comic boxes in a place that is off the floor.  You almost certainly will encounter wet floors in some house that you will live in in the future.  Never store anything of value on a floor.  Use shelves or pallets to keep your stuff high and dry.