Thinking about a trade. What sayeth you? 1 1

[Randall Ries]

Well, I have been thinking about trading my Superman #16 CGC 8.5 o/w pages for an Incredible Hulk #181 9.4 ow. While I know there are many variables involved, I'd like to hear from the experts. I'm leaning toward not, myself.

[FineCollector]

By asking in golden age, you're loading the dice, but we still need to know your intentions for the book.  Investment?  I'm not an expert, but...

For many years, 181 and Spidey 129 struggled to reach $1000 in the guide.  When they did, people said, "To heck with this " and bought up the other bronze age keys that were comparatively a bargain.  I keep expecting 181 to find its upper limit, given so many copies out there.  GA collectors tend to be more liberal with their wallets anyway, so I'd say the Superman has more upwards potential long-term. 

[Randall Ries]

1 hour ago, FineCollector said:

By asking in golden age, you're loading the dice, but we still need to know your intentions for the book.  Investment?  I'm not an expert, but...

For many years, 181 and Spidey 129 struggled to reach $1000 in the guide.  When they did, people said, "To heck with this " and bought up the other bronze age keys that were comparatively a bargain.  I keep expecting 181 to find its upper limit, given so many copies out there.  GA collectors tend to be more liberal with their wallets anyway, so I'd say the Superman has more upwards potential long-term. 

I put this in the GA/Bronze age forums.

As an investment yes certainly. My only real concern with a trade like this is if IH 181 hits a wall or Wolverine falls out of grace. He has been pushed by the movies and different books. If his popularity wanes, a lot of collectors will be sad. I don't want to be one of them. But it has shown no signs of slowing. Like Walking Dead #1, once the tv show goes away - and may it be soon - that issue will come tumbling down in value.

I keep books for awhile, then trade for something I haven't owned yet once in awhile. I don't have a real attachment to IH 181 other than it's a major bronze key book right now. Probably the top key.

I think too the Supes is the better to hold onto for the long term. Last time an 8.5 sold, according to GPA for Comics, was 2006 for $1610. Have to think it's worth more than that. Guy wants $6999.00 for his Hulk. The difference in Golden vs Bronze and overall availability should cover a moderate amount of ground while considering this trade. There are thousands of 181's in existence driven by a 1st appearance and nothing else and I doubt there are that many of the Supes by a long shot.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Randall Ries
Additional thoughts.

[Gotham Kid]

23 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Guy wants $6999.00 for his Hulk.

for a 9.4 ?

Edited October 21, 2017 by Gotham Kid

[Randall Ries]

7 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

for a 9.4 ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-Nov-1974-Marvel-/182748246586?epid=85340044&hash=item2a8ca4f23a:g:PcEAAOSw791ZrcDI

https://www.ebay.com/itm/INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-CGC-9-4-OW-OFFERS-TRADES-SEVERAL-COPIES-AVAIL-/252771652906?hash=item3ada5d552a:g:kRMAAOSwax5Yo-7m

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-white-pages-1st-full-Wolverine-/263266078409?hash=item3d4be18ec9:g:qRIAAOSwH5pZ5PdK

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hulk-181-CBCS-9-4-Marvel-1974-1st-Wolverine-X-Men-Like-CGC-G9-cm-/282677567290?hash=item41d0e55f3a:g:7YIAAOSw3G1Z0d-V

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hulk-181-CBCS-9-4-Marvel-1974-1st-Wolverine-White-Pages-X-Men-Like-CGC-G9-cm-/292283872631?hash=item440d79f577:g:EqoAAOSwak5Z2IJA

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-1974-1st-Wolverine-WHITE-pages-X-Men-D12-121-1-cm-/281792944672?hash=item419c2b1a20:g:Vy8AAOSwwTlUpv7A

https://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-CGC-9-4-SS-STAN-LEE-1ST-APP-OF-WOLVERINE-L-K-IT-/112485453506?hash=item1a30a7cec2:g:dDEAAOSweN9Z459b

 

[Robot Man]

I'd keep the Supe...

[Primetime]

5 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Well, I have been thinking about trading my Superman #16 CGC 8.5 o/w pages for an Incredible Hulk #181 9.4 ow. While I know there are many variables involved, I'd like to hear from the experts. I'm leaning toward not, myself.

Do you have to have high grade with either book? If not, I’d sell the supe and down grade it to midgrade, and buy a nice 7.0-8.0 hulk 181 that presents nice with no miswrap. You will save some money. Get white pages on a 181 as well. Then you can have both books. Neither are too hard to find. 

Edited October 21, 2017 by Primetime

[rjpb]

Straight up, I'd make that trade in a heartbeat. The Hulk #181 in 9.4 is a $5K or more book retail. Superman #16 seems like a slow growth book the last decade. You can extrapolate form this data  http://comicsmv.com/issues/index/7770  but it doesn't seem that an 8.5 would be worth much more than half that.  The growth trend seems to be in keys, classic covers, and genuinely scarce books. Yeah, high grade 181's are incredibly common, but the demand to availability ratio is probably still higher than it is for Superman 16 in higher grade.

 

[Randall Ries]

1 hour ago, rjpb said:

Straight up, I'd make that trade in a heartbeat. The Hulk #181 in 9.4 is a $5K or more book retail. Superman #16 seems like a slow growth book the last decade. You can extrapolate form this data  http://comicsmv.com/issues/index/7770  but it doesn't seem that an 8.5 would be worth much more than half that.  The growth trend seems to be in keys, classic covers, and genuinely scarce books. Yeah, high grade 181's are incredibly common, but the demand to availability ratio is probably still higher than it is for Superman 16 in higher grade.

 

Thanks for the info. I have a hard time putting  a value on the 16 because of a lack of hard sales data. Only three books grade higher than an 8.5. My biggest concern s if Wolvie's popularity takes a nose dive. It seems like at some point it will. One or two lousy movies could do that. But even giving that, it will still be the 1st appearance of a character that has had a huge impact on the bronze age. Trading a GA book for a BA book seems unnatural somehow. Plus, this IH 181 has ow pages despite being a 9.4.

 

[Randall Ries]

2 hours ago, Primetime said:

Do you have to have high grade with either book? If not, I’d sell the supe and down grade it to midgrade, and buy a nice 7.0-8.0 hulk 181 that presents nice with no miswrap. You will save some money. Get white pages on a 181 as well. Then you can have both books. Neither are too hard to find. 

High grade is kind of important to me at this point. If I were collecting the entire Superman run I could go with lower grade copies. My collecting wants/tastes run kind of erratically. Even mid grade, IH 181 is seeing $3-$3500.00 in 8.5. The thing is a steamroller right now. I also have a bad habit of buying on the bell curve. Like my frickin' house. Bought at the top of the bubble in 2006.

[Primetime]

18 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Thanks for the info. I have a hard time putting  a value on the 16 because of a lack of hard sales data. Only three books grade higher than an 8.5. My biggest concern s if Wolvie's popularity takes a nose dive. It seems like at some point it will. One or two lousy movies could do that. But even giving that, it will still be the 1st appearance of a character that has had a huge impact on the bronze age. Trading a GA book for a BA book seems unnatural somehow. Plus, this IH 181 has ow pages despite being a 9.4.

 

Wolverine is now a top tier character in today's age (Supe, Bat, Spidey, Wolvie, Iron Man, etc). I don't think those iconic character's or their first appearances can tank with any future bad movies. Hugh Jackman has helped to cement Wolverine's pop cultural status..

[Primetime]

16 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

High grade is kind of important to me at this point. If I were collecting the entire Superman run I could go with lower grade copies. My collecting wants/tastes run kind of erratically. Even mid grade, IH 181 is seeing $3-$3500.00 in 8.5. The thing is a steamroller right now. I also have a bad habit of buying on the bell curve. Like my frickin' house. Bought at the top of the bubble in 2006.

Ok, well high grade or runs is not me, so I have a different slant. To me, once you own a copy, it doesn't matter to me if it's a nice 3.0 or a nicer 6.5 - i'd rather have the 3.0 and use the extra money for another book....

[Randall Ries]

21 minutes ago, Primetime said:

Ok, well high grade or runs is not me, so I have a different slant. To me, once you own a copy, it doesn't matter to me if it's a nice 3.0 or a nicer 6.5 - i'd rather have the 3.0 and use the extra money for another book....

That is a good point. I have seen many books that were graded 7.0 and looked 9.0 but got them at 7.0 prices. Who sez CGC graders are the last word in presentation? Almost every Neal Adams Strange Adventures I have is graded 7.0 and look far better. Maybe the grader doesn't like Deadman. For a major key like 181, I would prefer it to be a higher mid grade at least. Hence the trade possibility. If I spend $3k plus on the book, my wife will likely staple my penniz to my stomach while I sleep. I just spent $2K on a Bats 232 9.6 ow/w. When she found out, I saw her rifling through the junk drawer looking for staples.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Randall Ries
Ham fingered spelling error

[Primetime]

5 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

That is a good point. I have seen many books that were graded 7.0 and looked 9.0 but got them at 7.0 prices. Who sez CGC graders are the last word in presentation? Almost every Neal Adams Strange Adventures I have is graded 7.0 and look far better. Maybe the grader doesn't like Deadman. For a major key like 181, I would prefer it to be a higher mid grade at least. Hence the trade possibility. If I spend $3k plus on the book, my wife will likely staple my penniz to my stomach while I sleep. I just spent $2K on a Bats 232 9.6 ow/w. When she found out, I saw here rifling through the junk drawer looking for staples.

good luck with the journey. But since we are in the gold forum, most here will agree that 181s (although clearly the higher demand book and the better book to park your $) are dime a dozen. The more difficult gold (high grade or not) is much more desirable.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Primetime

[Ryanfromottawa]

Keep the 181, wolverine has been popular as a character since he came around , and having a nice grade in his first appearance is both ; a safe investment, and a pretty cool comic to own!

[Senormac]

That Supes is pretty cool. 

That Hulk is pretty cool too 

Why don't you just BUY a Hulk 181 somewhere ?  There are tons of them 

 

 

[Randall Ries]

1 hour ago, Senormac said:

That Supes is pretty cool. 

That Hulk is pretty cool too 

Why don't you just BUY a Hulk 181 somewhere ?  There are tons of them 

 

 

If I spend $3k plus on the book, my wife will likely staple my penniz to my stomach while I sleep. I just spent $2K on a Bats 232 9.6 ow/w. When she found out, I saw her rifling through the junk drawer looking for staples.

[Randall Ries]

Well that's out. The IH 181 seller was just offered $6k for his book. Maybe that's a good thing. I can't get a good valuation on the Supes anyway. Certainly not $6k. I wish. Nice book nonetheless.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Randall Ries

[jimjum12]

1 minute ago, Randall Ries said:

Well that's out. The IH 181 seller was just offered $6k for his book. Maybe that's a good thing. I can't get a good valuation on the Supes anyway. Certainly not $6k. I wish. Nice book nonetheless.

.............Superman 16 kind of reminds me of Batman 15........... both "should" be classic covers but for some reason don't quite get the nod. I LOVE books like that. Your 16 has no miswrap or any of the other funky printing snafus that plague GA books..... it's a gorgeous example of the issue. A book to be proud of. I probably would have done the IH 181 trade, but would have sold that book and taken my profit now.... reinvesting in something else when a "no-brainer" presented itself. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[lou_fine]

9 hours ago, Gotham Kid said:

for a 9.4 ?

+1

Isn't that a Fantasyland price for a Hulk 181 in only 9.4 graded condition? 

Regardless of the price point, keeping the Superman 16 is a no-brainer here.  Especially when you would have one of the Top 10 graded copies for Superman 16 here, versus something like one of the Top 800 graded copies for the Hulk 181.  

Edited October 22, 2017 by lou_fine