1950's war comics Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said: I'll just say point blank what a lot of other people are politely skirting around for some reason. Here are the Top Ten reasons why Voldy Foldied (aka Failed): 1) They could never have hoped to be anything more than a distant second, look alike, also ran company. 2) The routine sales of its slabs at every widening discounts to comparable CGC copies only proves the point more. 3) Their initial practices of "restoration disclosure" on their labels was at best, sketchy, and at worse, downright duplicitous to prospective buyers of their slabs, and was obviously a low attempt to attract submissions from sellers looking to play "hide the ball" with their restored books in blue labels. 4) "Verifying " signatures of non-witnessed and dead people. 5) Consistently over grading books early (probably also had something to do with their books selling at discounts). 6) Cheap slabs and ugly labels. 7) Putting their grades on raw books and not slabbing them. 8) Never putting up their census (obviously because they didn't want people to see how low their volume really was). 9) Clearly under-staffed and under funded- It was nearly impossible to get a live person to answer their phone at their office. 10) Ever decreasing presence at the various seasonal cons. Being bought out by Beckett isn't going to help anything either, it might make things worse. There are LOTS of collectors in this hobby who rue some of what they perceive to be te negative influences of card collectors into the comic book marketplace, so Beckett will already be coming into this with a certain negative stigma attached. Voldy may very well have been started hoping for a buy out- but from CGC, who obviously continued to see them as such a miniscule presence, non-factor in the market, that they either didn't see the value or the point, and concluded their virtual monopoly was secure. I, for one, am just glad to not be holding any high dollar (or any) Voldy slabs with this announcement having been made. -J. Brilliant, spot-on analysis the likes of which we don't see that much of around here !! thank you @Jaydogrules FoggyNelson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blazingbob Posted October 29, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 56 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said: Brilliant, spot-on analysis the likes of which we don't see that much of around here !! thank you @Jaydogrules If you say so. Any competitor that comes into a market second isn't going to take over unless they have a business plan that clearly overwhelms the first company in the marketplace. Not only should your business plan cover how you plan to attack the competition but how do you convince the largest customers to try your company? And those largest customers are dealers by and large. You have to work twice as hard as the established company. I have gotten the same price for competitor copies when the book is accurately graded. I have gotten crossover CGC grades from competitor books. I have also seen numerous copies that have not. When a company "needs the money" they will take on higher risk. Dead signature verification is one example which opens the company up for fraud lawsuits if those signatures are deemed fake. If a grading company cannot get you to grade high ticket books because they are cheaper and faster they will have to make the decision to "grade looser and take the money" or not. The risk then goes on the submitter if the higher grade is accepted by the buying public or not. As I've said before if you get a business reputation of being a loose grader that is not quickly undone. You may make some short term money but it costs you in the long run. There holder is not Cheap. If it was so bad why did CGC go to the same inner well material? Putting grades on non-slabbed books for a fee was not a horrible idea. Just opens up the company to criticism and fraud issues that weren't there before. There presence at major cons was limited due to CGC doing an exclusive deal with Reed. Not because they didn't have the money to be there which is what jaydogrules post implies. I have no problem if I have the competitor's books in my inventory just because Beckett's bought them. Edited October 29, 2017 by blazingbob Transplant, deadleg, thirdgreenham and 9 others 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Sinescu Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said: I'll just say point blank what a lot of other people are politely skirting around for some reason. Here are the Top Ten reasons why Voldy Foldied (aka Failed): -J. I know we're on the CGC forum, but it is still incredibly presumptuous as well as disrespectful of you to say that they have either folded (aka "foldied") or failed as I don't believe either of those things has happened based on the information we know at this point. The company is staying where it is (physically) and retaining the same personnel. No, I'm not a supporter of theirs specifically, but anyone who owns, runs, or works for a small business knows the fear of having your livelihood go in the tank and it's disappointing to see anyone take such joy in the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post namisgr Posted October 29, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, blazingbob said: If you say so. Any competitor that comes into a market second isn't going to take over unless they have a business plan that clearly overwhelms the first company in the marketplace. Not only should your business plan cover how you plan to attack the competition but how do you convince the largest customers to try your company? And those largest customers are dealers by and large. You have to work twice as hard as the established company. I have gotten the same price for competitor copies when the book is accurately graded. I have gotten crossover CGC grades from competitor books. I have also seen numerous copies that have not. When a company "needs the money" they will take on higher risk. Dead signature verification is one example which opens the company up for fraud lawsuits if those signatures are deemed fake. If a grading company cannot get you to grade high ticket books because they are cheaper and faster you will have to make the decision to "grade looser and take the money" or not. The risk then goes on the submitter if the higher grade is accepted by the buying public or not. As I've said before if you get a business reputation of being a loose grader that is not quickly undone. You may make some short term money but it costs you in the long run. Their holder is not Cheap. If it was so bad why did CGC go to the same inner well material? Putting grades on non-slabbed books for a fee was not a horrible idea. Just opens up the company to criticism and fraud issues that weren't there before. Their presence at major cons was limited due to CGC doing an exclusive deal with Reed. Not because they didn't have the money to be there which is what jaydogrules post implies. I have no problem if I have the competitor's books in my inventory just because Beckett's bought them. Eh, what do you know about the slabbed comics market? Remember, Jaydog rules. Even if he may not realize the distinguished competition that started with 6 employees now has over 30. Having the support of a larger, better financed organization will only help the guys across the street to be serious competition and a legitimate alternative that all collectors of third party-graded books should welcome in our hobby. Edited October 29, 2017 by namisgr Tony S, comicdonna, Logan510 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950's war comics Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 i never realized how many vehemently anti CGC members there were on these very own CGC chat boards .............. threads like this make me realize that when i post here about the comics and the company that i really like and appreciate that i need to be fully aware that i am swimming with sharks FoggyNelson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan510 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said: i never realized how many vehemently anti CGC members there were on these very own CGC chat boards .............. threads like this make me realize that when i post here about the comics and the company that i really like and appreciate that i need to be fully aware that i am swimming with sharks There are a lot of people here who're anti slabbing in general Larryw7, fullerjason, F For Fake and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan510 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 19 minutes ago, namisgr said: Eh, what do you know about the slabbed comics market? Remember, Jaydog rules. Even if he may not realize the distinguished competition that started with 6 employees now has over 30. Having the support of a larger, better financed organization will only help the guys across the street to be serious competition and a legitimate alternative that all collectors of third party-graded books should welcome in our hobby. His "hot takes" are always entertaining...for the wrong reasons, but entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 51 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said: i never realized how many vehemently anti CGC members there were on these very own CGC chat boards .............. threads like this make me realize that when i post here about the comics and the company that i really like and appreciate that i need to be fully aware that i am swimming with sharks Don't give it a second thought. There are some on here who are knee deep in Voldy slabs and are nervous if not terrified that the bottom just fell out of whatever value there was in those slabs. So their deflections and petty asides are understandable. My advice to them- CPR to CGC so you won't lose any (more) sleep (or money) over it. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namisgr Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 6 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said: There are some on here who are knee deep in Voldy slabs and are nervous if not terrified that the bottom just fell out of whatever value there was in those slabs. -J. Who here is? Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Martin Sinescu said: I know we're on the CGC forum, but it is still incredibly presumptuous as well as disrespectful of you to say that they have either folded (aka "foldied") or failed as I don't believe either of those things has happened based on the information we know at this point. The company is staying where it is (physically) and retaining the same personnel. No, I'm not a supporter of theirs specifically, but anyone who owns, runs, or works for a small business knows the fear of having your livelihood go in the tank and it's disappointing to see anyone take such joy in the idea. Excuse me ? Pointing out the reasons why a poorly managed, under funded company with bad ideas failed is not taking "joy" in its failure. -J. Edited October 29, 2017 by Jaydogrules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicdonna Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said: Don't give it a second thought. There are some on here who are knee deep in Voldy slabs and are nervous if not terrified that the bottom just fell out of whatever value there was in those slabs. So their deflections and petty asides are understandable. My advice to them- CPR to CGC so you won't lose any (more) sleep (or money) over it. -J. Why? Are the books going to disintegrate in the slabs? Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950's war comics Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 1 hour ago, namisgr said: Eh, what do you know about the slabbed comics market? Remember, Jaydog rules. Even if he may not realize the distinguished competition that started with 6 employees now has over 30. Having the support of a larger, better financed organization will only help the guys across the street to be serious competition and a legitimate alternative that all collectors of third party-graded books should welcome in our hobby. Haha thats is like saying 1960 Harvey super hero comics were a legitimate competitor and that they motivated Marvel to become even better do people actually still have the audacity to come on these very own CGC paid for and provided chat boards and promote / offer kudos/ confess sympathy to the competition??? FoggyNelson and ComicConnoisseur 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post namisgr Posted October 29, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted October 29, 2017 Just now, 1950's war comics said: do people actually still have the audacity to come on these very own CGC paid for and provided chat boards and promote / offer kudos/ confess sympathy to the competition??? Promoted? Please quote it. Kudos? Please quote it. Sympathy? Please quote it. If you think the comic collecting hobby is better served by having a single company holding a monopoly on third party grading than by having a competitive third party grading marketplace, then you'll have to come up with a more logical explanation for such a bizarre position than by attempting to attack those who recognize that competition is good for the hobby. lou_fine, fullerjason, Logan510 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine48 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 20 minutes ago, comicdonna said: Why? Are the books going to disintegrate in the slabs? maybe? Strange things happen around Halloween! Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950's war comics Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, namisgr said: Promoted? Please quote it. Kudos? Please quote it. Sympathy? Please quote it. If you think the comic collecting hobby is better served by having a single company holding a monopoly on third party grading than by having a competitive third party grading marketplace, then you'll have to come up with a more logical explanation for such a bizarre position than by attempting to attack those who recognize that competition is good for the hobby. evidently you read only what you want to read because all those example you want quotes for are within this thread already, some very recently competition ,,yes it is good for the marketplace but voldy is only marginally better than pgx/vault and any others in the numismatic field ,which is ten times larger and able to support many more grading companies there were/are so many 3rd party coin grading start up companies that are suspect that eBay had to lay down the law that only the top four (out of at least 10) could even advertise on their site you will not see a graded coin that is not one of the established top four companies on eBay even though there are many more grading companies Edited October 30, 2017 by 1950's war comics FoggyNelson, ComicConnoisseur and ADAMANTIUM 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namisgr Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, namisgr said: 41 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said: There are some on here who are knee deep in Voldy slabs and are nervous if not terrified that the bottom just fell out of whatever value there was in those slabs. -J. Who here is? Edited October 30, 2017 by namisgr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Can we all start talking about the elephant in the room. no really, I like elephants! n badback83 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950's war comics Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Just now, namisgr said: So no real examples to substantiate your claims, got it. Do the homework yourself ..everything i said that you are looking to be quoted is already within this thread FoggyNelson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namisgr Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Just now, 1950's war comics said: Do the homework yourself ..everything i said that you are looking to be quoted is already within this thread I think you're misrepresenting what others have posted. The main thrust, that a competitive third party grading marketplace that includes Beckett is good for the hobby, seems to be the opinion of dealers and collectors both. To me, it seems self-evident, in much the same way that capitalism promotes healthy competition in business that monopolies can't match. Tony S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950's war comics Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) pxg, voldy/beckett, vault and i think there are a couple more are completely invisible to me ,,, and i am for from alone when i see one of their listings on CL eBay or anywhere i just shake my head and realize that they whom submitted them to those companies were looking to get their comic graded a couple grades higher than their comparable CGC counterpart and then hoping to command CGC money when selling it... Edited October 30, 2017 by 1950's war comics FoggyNelson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
