The "Newsstand Edition" Phenomenon 5 5

[exitmusicblue]

Was wowed by the reality that a newsstand edition of Venom #1 (non-error) CGC 9.8 recently sold at ebay auction for 265.  Direct market version in 9.8 last went for 76. 

https://outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed.ebay.com/outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F253205427949

For which other books have boardies noticed big chasms in value of late?  Venom 1 non-error can’t even be called a true key value-wise tbh...

Edited October 24, 2017 by exitmusicblue

[badback83]

Whenever I get an ASM 300 or NM 98, books I try to turn fast, I have a few modern collectors that I call.  They always ask if its news stand or direct every time.  So, apparently it does matter to some.  Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in.  

[ygogolak]

7 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

Was wowed by the reality that a newsstand edition of Venom #1 (non-error) CGC 9.8 recently sold at ebay auction for 265.  Direct market version in 9.8 last went for 76. 

https://outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed.ebay.com/outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F253205427949

For which other books have boardies noticed big chasms in value of late?  Venom 1 non-error can’t even be called a true key value-wise tbh...

eBay / newsstand / sort comics / sold / compare

Edited October 24, 2017 by ygogolak

[exitmusicblue]

3 hours ago, DocHoppus182 said:

Whenever I get an ASM 300 or NM 98, books I try to turn fast, I have a few modern collectors that I call.  They always ask if its news stand or direct every time.  So, apparently it does matter to some.  Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in.  

Interesting !  I remember back when it was really a muted thing, but times have changed...

 

1 hour ago, ygogolak said:

eBay / newsstand / sort comics / sold / compare

For sure, man.  Thought it easier to survey the field here.  : )

[shadroch]

Later newsstand runs were maybe 5% of the press run. In the ballpark of the 30 Cent Variant Marvel produced in the 1970s. When the market matures on these, they may be priced similarly

[Lazyboy]

2 hours ago, shadroch said:

Later newsstand runs were maybe 5% of the press run. In the ballpark of the 30 Cent Variant Marvel produced in the 1970s. When the market matures on these, they may be priced similarly

There is some evidence that suggests that some of the last Marvel newsstands may have had distribution in the 5% range. If all the unsold copies were actually destroyed, they might really be that rare now.

But many people are talking about 80s and 90s newsstands like they are actually rare.

There are a handful of people manipulating this market with hype and misinformation. And many suckers are apparently buying it.

[Get Marwood & I]

Completists might be responsible for some of the high newsstand prices. I attempted ASM 500-700 and couldn't find a single copy of about 20 of them before I stopped collecting. It was harder being in the UK of course, but I'd scour eBay relentlessly and for some issues you would see hundreds of directs and no newsstands day in day out. Some people I know put out huge bounties on certain issues, e.g. 694 and I freely admit that I would pay 10 times the direct edition price without a second thought to get a book if I could find it. I don't have the figures, but the marvel newsstands were clearly a tiny % of the run prior to them ceasing production altogether (with Superior Spider-man #20 as I recall). Some people are indeed over egging the scarcity of newsstands from way back, but it stands to reason that the scarcer they are as are % of production, the harder they will be to find, especially in high grade. And therefore the right collector will pay a premium. 

[The_Investor]

4 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

There is some evidence that suggests that some of the last Marvel newsstands may have had distribution in the 5% range. If all the unsold copies were actually destroyed, they might really be that rare now.

But many people are talking about 80s and 90s newsstands like they are actually rare.

There are a handful of people manipulating this market with hype and misinformation. And many suckers are apparently buying it.

With all due respect , Canadian Newsstands from the 1980's are scarce to rare in (8.0 +) and not mid to lower grades. These books were printed at the same time on the same printers as the american ones. Try finding a higher graded key Canadian Newsstand in higher grades...very tough. Just look at the CGC census and it speaks volumes (i.e. ASM 238, 252, etc...) The ratio between the direct and newsstands is huge (about 2 percent are Canadian) . 

there's a great site that has done lots of research and the top senior advisors from Overstreet that pointed out the 30/35 cent books have been pounding the table about the Canadian Price Variants. These books are not foreign books...lots of proof of individuals buying them across the border into the USA as well. 

www.rarecomics.wordpress.com  

You shall also find an excellent explanation of why they are rare . The first price guide geared to value these books is also presented for free.   

[Westy Steve]

Doesn't it work the other way too?  Back in the day, I remember looking for Direct Editions because most books were news stand versions and there were few Direct Editions available.

[Get Marwood & I]

Just now, Westy Steve said:

Doesn't it work the other way too?  Back in the day, I remember looking for Direct Editions because most books were news stand versions and there were few Direct Editions available.

It does. The early directs, often referred to as 'Whitmans' were comparatively low in the production numbers which is why they often go for a premium. The first ASM was #165 and that's a really hard book to find in decent shape. 

[Westy Steve]

1 minute ago, Marwood & I said:

It does. The early directs, often referred to as 'Whitmans' were comparatively low in the production numbers which is why they often go for a premium. The first ASM was #165 and that's a really hard book to find in decent shape. 

I hadn't thought of Whitmans.  I'm familiar with them, but I was talking about the era where they had the UPC window which was blank or had a character icon in them.  Even those were relatively rare.  Emphasis on "relatively".

[Get Marwood & I]

32 minutes ago, The_Investor said:

With all due respect , Canadian Newsstands from the 1980's are scarce to rare in (8.0 +) and not mid to lower grades. These books were printed at the same time on the same printers as the american ones. Try finding a higher graded key Canadian Newsstand in higher grades...very tough. Just look at the CGC census and it speaks volumes (i.e. ASM 238, 252, etc...) The ratio between the direct and newsstands is huge (about 2 percent are Canadian) . 

there's a great site that has done lots of research and the top senior advisors from Overstreet that pointed out the 30/35 cent books have been pounding the table about the Canadian Price Variants. These books are not foreign books...lots of proof of individuals buying them across the border into the USA as well. 

www.rarecomics.wordpress.com  

You shall also find an excellent explanation of why they are rare . The first price guide geared to value these books is also presented for free.   

To be fair, I think we were talking just US newsstands. The Canadian newsstands do indeed have comparatively low print runs compared to their US counterparts. So for me, it's a simple scenario. Any book that is comparatively low in availability will likely garner a premium. Early directs, later newsstands, Canadians,  pence, 30/35 cent variants etc etc etc. The completist will pay more for them all. 

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, Westy Steve said:

I hadn't thought of Whitmans.  I'm familiar with them, but I was talking about the era where they had the UPC window which was blank or had a character icon in them.  Even those were relatively rare.  Emphasis on "relatively".

The blank UPC typified the early direct / 'Whitman' copies. When directs settled into a regular pattern they were produced in lower numbers than newsstands.  Then there was a reversal over the years to the point where newsstands dwindled to nothing and were then cancelled altogether. 

I just had a look on ebay for an ASM 165 'Whitman'diamond price box copy and a 694 newsstand. See how many you find compared to their opposites. 

[Get Marwood & I]

Note I said Whitman in inverted commas. I don't want a visit from the Whitman police 

[shadroch]

There are some extremely rare newsstand variants from the mid to late 1980s. A few Indie companies managed to get newsstand distribution of their books in a few cities. First and Now distributed in the Chicago area and Comico supposedly distributed in Pennsylvania, but their newsstand copies ended up in some remote locations thanks to a few vendors packaging returns into multi-packs. It's just that there isn't much for demand for them.

[RockMyAmadeus]

By the way....speaking of newsstands being compared to the 30/35 cent variants of 76-77...it's not at all true that Bob Overstreet had no idea they existed.

Let me clarify:

BOB himself may not have known it, or he may not have remembered it, but the OPG DID know about them. The idea that Bob had a conversation with someone in 1997, wherein Bob says "impossible! There's no company as heavily researched as Marvel!" doesn't ring true, because 30 cent variants were published in the OPG Updates for X-Men #98-100 in the mid 80's.

So, while true, they weren't well known...they weren't UNknown.

[Martin Sinescu]

3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

But the topic is about newsstands in general, not Canadian newsstands. And newsstands in general from the 80's and 90's are not even remotely rare.

You have to get to the late 00s before you start to see really rare newsstand books.

Speaking of which, are you the Benjamin Nobel that owns that wordpress blog you link here?

80's? No doubt. Through the early 90's? Maybe. Certainly, though, newsstands from the late 90's-mid 2000's are far scarcer overall and much tougher in high grade through this time period. Just as an example, Batman #567 (1999, 1st Cassandra Cain) is a book I've sought out in the newsstand dress. The highest graded copy I've seen since I started looking a few years ago was a 9.4 (might be the only one I've seen, now that I think about it). I own one copy which I bought supposedly in NM range and it was fairly weak (more like VF/NM but at least I have one). Right now on eBay there are about 30 copies (graded or not) and I don't see any that are newsstands. Definitely something I would pay a premium for vs. Direct. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just now, Martin Sinescu said:

80's? No doubt. Through the early 90's? Maybe. Certainly, though, newsstands from the late 90's-mid 2000's are far scarcer overall and much tougher in high grade through this time period. Just as an example, Batman #567 (1999, 1st Cassandra Cain) is a book I've sought out in the newsstand dress. The highest graded copy I've seen since I started looking a few years ago was a 9.4 (might be the only one I've seen, now that I think about it). I own one copy which I bought supposedly in NM range and it was fairly weak (more like VF/NM but at least I have one). Right now on eBay there are about 30 copies (graded or not) and I don't see any that are newsstands. Definitely something I would pay a premium for vs. Direct. 

Ok, but we're talking about different definitions of the word "rare." What does "far scarcer overall" mean? 10 copies? 100 copies? 10000 copies? Relative to what? 

When I say "really rare newsstands" I mean books that are hidden in the collections of readers; books that were bought new off the newsstand and then put away, in single copies. I mean books where you might go a year or more before seeing one offered for sale. I mean books that have, perhaps, fewer than 10,000 copies extant, but which never get sold. For a modern book, that's quite "rare." 

So, in that sense, yes, the books are tough to find. And finding high grade examples is a killer, no doubt. 

You're not going to get any argument from me about the toughness of late 90's newsstands. I've argued that for a decade+ on these very boards, long, long before a lot of people really bought into the idea. But, relatively speaking, they are not *that* rare, especially when compared to, say, 2010 Marvels, which are PROHIBITIVELY rare...but, then, 2010 DIRECT Marvels ain't no walk in the park, either.

Venom #1...the subject of this thread...is NOT rare in ANY sense of the word...even in newsstand format. However...in newsstand format in 9.8...ok, now we're starting to talk. But, there are probably 100,000+ newsstand copies of this book...a book that had a 1,000,000 print run overall...still in existence, if not more. This was one of the "OMG LET'S PRINT FIFTY BILLION OF THEM!!!!" 1993 books. 

[Semicentennial]

6 hours ago, Marwood & I said:

The blank UPC typified the early direct / 'Whitman' copies. When directs settled into a regular pattern they were produced in lower numbers than newsstands.  Then there was a reversal over the years to the point where newsstands dwindled to nothing and were then cancelled altogether. 

I just had a look on ebay for an ASM 165 'Whitman'diamond price box copy and a 694 newsstand. See how many you find compared to their opposites. 

I vaguely remember seeing multi-packs of Whitman comics at a local dime store in the 80s that had books without bar codes on the cover.  I always thought those were reprints.  Were those repackaged direct editions or reprints?

[Martin Sinescu]

3 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Ok, but we're talking about different definitions of the word "rare." What does "far scarcer overall" mean? 10 copies? 100 copies? 10000 copies? Relative to what? 

When I say "really rare newsstands" I mean books that are hidden in the collections of readers; books that were bought new off the newsstand and then put away, in single copies. I mean books where you might go a year or more before seeing one offered for sale. I mean books that have, perhaps, fewer than 10,000 copies extant, but which never get sold. For a modern book, that's quite "rare." 

So, in that sense, yes, the books are tough to find. And finding high grade examples is a killer, no doubt. 

You're not going to get any argument from me about the toughness of late 90's newsstands. I've argued that for a decade+ on these very boards, long, long before a lot of people really bought into the idea. But, relatively speaking, they are not *that* rare, especially when compared to, say, 2010 Marvels, which are PROHIBITIVELY rare...but, then, 2010 DIRECT Marvels ain't no walk in the park, either.

Venom #1...the subject of this thread...is NOT rare in ANY sense of the word...even in newsstand format. However...in newsstand format in 9.8...ok, now we're starting to talk. But, there are probably 100,000+ newsstand copies of this book...a book that had a 1,000,000 print run overall...still in existence, if not more. This was one of the "OMG LET'S PRINT FIFTY BILLION OF THEM!!!!" 1993 books. 

Right, totally agree on all points, just wanted to clarify the difference between newsstands of the early 90's vs. late 90's when you say "newsstands in general from the 80's and 90's are not even remotely rare". Also, I specifically avoided using the term "rare" in my response -- it's clearly misapplied in most circumstances throughout the hobby and I knew what you meant in what you said about the late-00's newsstands (and certainly these are in a different league than the late 90's-mid 2000's newsstands). By "far scarcer overall", that was a comparison relative to their direct market releases.