The "Newsstand Edition" Phenomenon 5 5

[Philflound]

Oh, and to give you some information. Back in the 1960s when Marvel started creating UK versions of the original issues such as JIM 83, Spidey 1, etc. the interior was from the US and they just changed the cover. Haven't checked to see if all dates were different though, but gave AF15 below. This will coincide with the fact that your interior NM 98 is the US contents but they threw an Australian cover on them.

To help clarify, here is the example of Amazing Fantasy 15. Note there are 2 versions at the top of the list. The 8/62 is the normal US release, and the 9/62 is the United Kingdom.

https://www.cgccomics.com/census/issues_bytitle.asp?title=Amazing+Fantasy&publisher=Marvel+Comics

[fastballspecial]

7 hours ago, Logan510 said:

7 hours ago, Marwood & I said:

Hi Ben,

When Rock first contacted you regarding your website content, did he comes across something like this:

"Hi Ben, great blog! You're clearly passionate about this stuff and have put a huge amount of work into it. Well done.  There's a few areas I can help you out with if you're interested, where your assumptions don't match my own. Let me know, cheers, Rock"

...or this:

"Ben, please stop peddling lies on your error strewn blog. You are a fraud and lower than an ants belly if you think people will fall for this stuff"

 

It would have been much longer then that.

 

[xcomic]

24 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

how having someone you respect as an expert confirming what you've written is gratifying

Thank you for your thoughtful response.  I want to further clarify that my mention of the expert and their statement about avoiding a particular "urban myth" (one specifically surrounding the year 1976 and Direct Market comics) was not something I mentioned to you to corroborate my article as a whole, but rather to give context for the specific matter that the person you know as "RMA" appears to be focused on and desired to comment on.  In other words, I believe this very specific "urban myth related portion" of the larger newsstand discussion is the topic where RMA wanted their voice to be heard.  I wanted you to know the further context about what I had learned from the expert -- i.e. that there is an "urban myth" out there surrounding this precise subject.  I was hoping this would help you in understanding my perspective, being just one more thing I was aware of and had in my mind among all the various other things relating to my communications with this person that I had already conveyed to you.

Best,

- Ben

[xcomic]

14 minutes ago, Philflound said:

Actually this was a mistake where a grader created this entry by accident and I was told it has already been fixed and will show up soon in an updated census.

Thank you for sharing this info!  I had been hoping the opposite was true and CGC had decided to re-organize the book under 2/91.

- Ben

[xcomic]

11 minutes ago, Philflound said:

here is the example of Amazing Fantasy 15. Note there are 2 versions at the top of the list. The 8/62 is the normal US release, and the 9/62 is the United Kingdom

What I find very interesting about this pair is that with identical interior (which I only wish I could confirm "first hand" as an owner of the pair but alas I've only seen pictures), is how the indicia month is 9/62 across both.

- Ben

[The_Investor]

Ben, I think you're doing a wonderful job in responding to certain posters after they were very disrespectful to you, honestly they don't deserve a respectful response after trashing your real name (and others) on this public board! There is just so much that is wrong with how they decided to behave !!!  I've been contacted by several board member expressing the same disbelief with these posters on how they intentionally and consciously stooped so low on more than one occasion !!! (this is called cyber bullying and CGC should suspend their accounts because these posters feel empowered hurting other posters all-the-while hiding behind a computer screen in the comfort of their homes) 

In my last post on this thread, I was very polite and respectful,  yet two posters felt the need, out of the blue to start harassing me. One poster had been warned by CGC for violating the rules of conduct Friday afternoon and only minutes later mocks this very warning and takes another stab at me.  This is not mature adult-like behavior from this one poster and an apology should be in order as some members expressed to me privately! Why would I even want to engage in conversation with online bullies?  We should discuss comic books on these boards and not the the posters themselves!!! Many here have taken notice of the fact that these two posters may never have been interested in a friendly conversation because if they were why insult and drag names of members through the mud?  A number of members here (including myself) could do the same thing to them and reveal their full names but decided not to because it wouldn't make us any better than they by our actions. Stooping that low is not how we would like to define ourselves  today, tomorrow or ever! 

Once again, we should discuss the comic books and not the posters who come to enjoy a friendly dialogue !

[shadroch]

And now for a short comedic interlude:

Nixon, Kissinger, and The Pope and a hippie are in an airplane.
The pilot has a heart attack and dies and they decide they have to parachute jump to safety.
Unfortunately there are only three parachutes.
Nixon grabs one saying, "I am the president of the United States, the leader of the free world and the most important man in the world.
It is important that I survive" and jumps out.
Kissinger also grabs one saying "I'm the world's smartest man and the advisor to the president. It is important that I too survive" and jumps out.
Then The Pope says to the hippie, "Go ahead, my son, you can take the last parachute."
And the hippie says, "Don't worry , Mr. Pope.,, there's two left, the world's smartest man just grabbed my knapsack".

[shadroch]

 

[Get Marwood & I]

13 hours ago, xcomic said:

What I find very interesting about this pair is that with identical interior (which I only wish I could confirm "first hand" as an owner of the pair but alas I've only seen pictures), is how the indicia month is 9/62 across both.

- Ben

 

There's an explanation here:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/marvelmasterworksfansite/something-i-discovered-about-amazing-fantasy-15-t27311.html

Both UK and US versions have identical interiors / indicia dates. Just the cover price and blank date box that differ.  I talk about that a bit in my pence thread here (page 5):

 

[Lazyboy]

2 hours ago, The_Investor said:

Ben, I think you're doing a wonderful job in responding to certain posters after they were very disrespectful to you, honestly they don't deserve a respectful response after trashing your real name (and others) on this public board! There is just so much that is wrong with how they decided to behave !!!  I've been contacted by several board member expressing the same disbelief with these posters on how they intentionally and consciously stooped so low on more than one occasion !!! (this is called cyber bullying and CGC should suspend their accounts because these posters feel empowered hurting other posters all-the-while hiding behind a computer screen in the comfort of their homes) 

In my last post on this thread, I was very polite and respectful,  yet two posters felt the need, out of the blue to start harassing me. One poster had been warned by CGC for violating the rules of conduct Friday afternoon and only minutes later mocks this very warning and takes another stab at me.  This is not mature adult-like behavior from this one poster and an apology should be in order as some members expressed to me privately! Why would I even want to engage in conversation with online bullies?  We should discuss comic books on these boards and not the the posters themselves!!! Many here have taken notice of the fact that these two posters may never have been interested in a friendly conversation because if they were why insult and drag names of members through the mud?  A number of members here (including myself) could do the same thing to them and reveal their full names but decided not to because it wouldn't make us any better than they by our actions. Stooping that low is not how we would like to define ourselves  today, tomorrow or ever! 

Once again, we should discuss the comic books and not the posters who come to enjoy a friendly dialogue !

Says the guy who just made a post that was all about other posters.

Again, are you connected to Ben's blog in any way?

It is unethical to promote something you are part of while pretending to be a neutral third-party observer.

Also, you obviously have no clue what bullying (cyber or otherwise) means. Questioning the words that somebody chose to use or a person's connection to something they are promoting is not even close.

[Get Marwood & I]

20 hours ago, Philflound said:

Since the original post on this subject has gotten ridiculous and seems to have nothing to do with the topic, I thought about starting it anew. Keep your rants and raves about anything else to yourself, or better yet, create a new topic called rants and raves.

I've mentioned before in the Modern section and the newsstand thread mentioned above that over the past few years, there seems to be an increase in demand for newsstand variations. Mile High has been promoting separating direct and newsstand editions for many years now. Probably to increase their sales but also to cater to those collectors out there who actually distinguish between those versions. It's like those who want to collect the Mark Jewelers or other inserts in comics that the majority are regular copies, but a small percentage has something about the comic that separates it from the rest.

Newsstand (UPC) US editions are a field where there are enough collectors out there that I personally think there should be a separate market for them. CGC will recognize only those issues where there was actually something different about the comic which separates it from the direct edition. That could be price difference, paper quality, maybe something available exclusively to the direct or newsstand, something else, or any combination of these. Regardless, the market seems to be there and those who want to try and capitalize on it are attempting to do so. There is nothing wrong with this. Variations for collectibles in all fields have been an avenue to profit for many years.

Whatever the reason for collecting these variations, let's take a look at what data seems to be out there.

1. Direct editions seemed to have taken over the market somewhere towards the late 80s. There is a small line graph where newsstands were high in the late 70s to mid 80s and direct were low. The newsstand line goes down with print run while the direct edition climbs, crossing somewhere in the mid-80s. This is a guess, but seems reasonable. I'm attaching the graph again so you don't have to go searching in the other thread.

2. In the late 1990s, maybe even mid-1990s, there seems to be a lack of newsstands. Though unsold copies were supposed to be destroyed, I actually knew someone at the time Spiderman #1 came out, he acquired tons of newsstand editions that didn't sell and would sell them at a flea market that I had a table. He worked for the newsstand distributor. He would rent the table next to me and put out all these comics. That included 110 copies of the bagged newsstand Spidey #1. So most likely there are more copies of newsstands that have survived than what legally should be. Though that doesn't mean there are tons of copies still in existence, but maybe a bit more than what there should be.

3. There are documented sales on Ebay for the past few years that show there is some interest in newsstand copies. I've read on several threads posts where fellow collectors on these chat boards have been searching for newsstands. These sales and posts show that there is a market and people are willing to pay a premium for newsstand editions, especially high grade.

4. If there is a market for newsstands, then there will definitely be a premium for high grade copies. We all know that newsstands sit on racks, sometimes spinner racks, but even if they are just magazine racks, damage occurs. How many times have you walked into a Barnes & Nobles and people are just sitting or standing by the racks reading, not having any inkling of making a purchase of these books. And then putting them back, sometimes they'll knock around not only the copy in their hands, but the other copies on the racks. So even if newsstand copies exist, trying to get a 9.8 may be impossible.

So I'd like to know what others think. Feel free to post finds or sales you think are crazy. On my excursions, I've come across nearly no Valiant newsstands. Maybe 2 or 3 and those were literally uncollectible in my opinion (maybe VG). Since someone pointed out Malibu, I've been on the hunt for those. I've been buying up Image ns whenever I find them for the past 1 1/2 years or so.  And like I mentioned in the other thread that went way off topic, you don't have to make a fortune for a newsstand to become collectible. Just having someone purchase a direct and ns copy, even for the same price is twice the sales than if they just collected one copy in the run. And if ns copies go for double, triple, or 10 times a direct, it's still more profit than just selling the copy in the run. Like Mile High (which I don't agree with many of their price gouging on ns copies that are more common than direct), if enough people start separating out newsstand from direct, you may just create a big enough market where it's worth your while.

 

Hello @Philflound,

I mentioned earlier that I attempted to put a run of ASM newsstands together, 1-700, before giving up collecting. Your graph is quite telling, and indicates simply why I experienced what I did. My experience was that early newsstands are ample, later newsstands are not. The later the date, the smaller the newsstand volumes (in comparison to their direct edition counterparts), the harder the issue is to find.

I had little trouble getting ASM newsstands up to 441. The old volume 2 run of 58 issues was tough, but I managed to get them all. 500 up was really hard work. In the end, I was paying many multiples of the direct edition price to secure them (at the time, I had quite a bit of eBay competition from other completists). I can't tell you how diligently I looked, and I had US collectors on the hunt for me too. When I stopped collecting I still had about 20 missing. 

ASM #694 is an impossible book to find and I've seen $500 bounties for a copy. The direct goes for $5 if you're lucky. Some chap flooded eBay with a ton of newsstands a few years back - I can't recall the story now but he had a huge store of them and that helped me fill a load of gaps.

But now, it's really hard to complete a run. ASM is clearly a popular book, so I can only imagine how hard it would be to collect a run of a lesser title.

Here's a good example. Pop onto eBay, and every other website you know, and find me one copy of each of these:

   

The direct is a $5 book. If the newsstand is so outrageously low in numbers by comparison, to the point of non-existent, it makes absolute sense that it will be valued higher than $5. 

Chuck at Mile High worked on the crude assumption that if a late newsstand is, say, 100 times scarcer than the direct version, then the right variant collector / completist will pay an equivalent multiple, as they do with the 35 cent variants. I cursed him for this, as it meant the books I was quietly picking up for direct equivalent prices suddenly sky rocketed once people started to see the logic of his premise (super scarce = super price). There may be no right or wrong here - one guy spots an opportunity, sets a price level (however ridiculous some may feel) and it either takes hold or doesn't. If I saw an ASM #694 for $100 as a BIN I would buy it in an instant. 

So, that's my contribution to the debate, which I've crafted in a way to open the door to a counter attack (the inclusion of Chuck often has that effect!). As long as it's done sensibly and without bitterness or rancour, I'll debate with the rest of them 

More pretty (HTF) newsstands:

 

 

 

[exitmusicblue]

On a related note, I’m getting a newsstand ASM 316 with Mark Jewelers insert SS’d by McFarlane, pressed, and graded.

There are two completed/sold listings for newsstand MJ variants of the issue on ebay (one of them mine), and no active listings. The newsstand CGC 9.8 MJ sold for ~70% more than the equivalent direct edition non-MJs.   A fun way for me to collect what is normally a very common issue.

Edited October 29, 2017 by exitmusicblue

[shadroch]

The 70s price variants sell like they do because hundreds, if not thousands, of collectors  are actively seeking them out.  Pricing books simply on scarcity, but not popular demand is an excellent way to become an ex-comic dealer.  It works for Chuckles because he has five million books or so, but a small time dealer can't run a museum. They need to churn inventory. I do think that in the future these books will command nice premiums but not now.

[wolverine180]

On 10/24/2017 at 11:20 PM, Martin Sinescu said:

80's? No doubt. Through the early 90's? Maybe. Certainly, though, newsstands from the late 90's-mid 2000's are far scarcer overall and much tougher in high grade through this time period. Just as an example, Batman #567 (1999, 1st Cassandra Cain) is a book I've sought out in the newsstand dress. The highest graded copy I've seen since I started looking a few years ago was a 9.4 (might be the only one I've seen, now that I think about it). I own one copy which I bought supposedly in NM range and it was fairly weak (more like VF/NM but at least I have one). Right now on eBay there are about 30 copies (graded or not) and I don't see any that are newsstands. Definitely something I would pay a premium for vs. Direct. 

I actually have a 9.8 graded newsstand copy

[Philflound]

2 hours ago, shadroch said:

The 70s price variants sell like they do because hundreds, if not thousands, of collectors  are actively seeking them out.  Pricing books simply on scarcity, but not popular demand is an excellent way to become an ex-comic dealer.  It works for Chuckles because he has five million books or so, but a small time dealer can't run a museum. They need to churn inventory. I do think that in the future these books will command nice premiums but not now.

I don't think much about churning inventory with newsstands as a shop owner probably doesn't own too many copies to make or break them. As you said, there is a scarcity among many and I doubt any store owners are sitting on vast quantities waiting for the market to soar.

[shadroch]

5 minutes ago, Philflound said:

I don't think much about churning inventory with newsstands as a shop owner probably doesn't own too many copies to make or break them. As you said, there is a scarcity among many and I doubt any store owners are sitting on vast quantities waiting for the market to soar.

I wouldn't be surprised if Chuckie is sitting on thousands or more.

[exitmusicblue]

1 hour ago, wolverine180 said:

I actually have a 9.8 graded newsstand copy

Scwheet, enjoy it

[Martin Sinescu]

1 hour ago, wolverine180 said:

I actually have a 9.8 graded newsstand copy

Wow!!! 

[wolverine180]

16 minutes ago, Martin Sinescu said:

Wow!!! 

Thanks all . Here is a pic of it

[exitmusicblue]

 My fave newsstand... thanks to a fellow boardie !  Somewhere in the ballpark of ~2 graded.  This one ain’t going anywhere.