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The "Newsstand Edition" Phenomenon
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323 posts in this topic

15 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

So, the non-newsstand ASM issues from 165 up are direct editions. Not Whitmans,  not diamonds,  not early directs. Just 'direct editions'. Is that what you're saying?

Yes. "Direct editions" are what they are, and the reason they were made. Calling them "Whitmans"...even if Whitman was the largest consumer of these books, and dictated the details...does a disservice to the other Direct market distributors which existed, and which were doing business, at the time.

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1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I didn't have a direct hand in BIP, no, but several paragraphs in that article are lifted from posts I made, probably at the Valiantfans board, over the years. Specifically, these paragraphs:

"Diamond issues are the same printing as the newsstand issues but with modified covers to denote that these issues were sold directly for redistribution and not for newsstand sales (issues distributed by Curtis Circulation). The earliest distributor of these diamond cover issues was Western Publishing Company which sold these issues in their Whitman three-packs. Unlike newsstand issues which could be returned if unsold, diamond cover issues could not be returned and the cover modification was Marvel's way of marking these issues.

From Marvel in "The Marvel Comics Guide to Collecting Comics" (page 6):
The number, month and price in this diamond shape means the issue was not distributed by Curtis Circulation and, that you probably got it from a direct sales comic shop or other outlet. The two boxes (not shown here) with a little "cc" symbol means it was circulated by Curtis. It means nothing as far as value is concerned to collectors. Please Note: MARVEL has recently replaced the diamond shape with this newly designed symbol: 
[pictured is the M symbol mentioned below]

While it is true Western Publishing was the largest distributor of these early diamond issues between 1977-1979 there is anecdotal evidence that indicates they were not the only distributor. Recollections of several dealers have indicated that they had received diamond issues at varying points in time prior to 1980. Regardless of these recollections, it is clear that Western Publishing was the driving force behind these early diamond cover print runs. Starting with comics cover dated June 1979, Marvel began sending diamond cover issues to subscribers and comic shops. At this point diamond cover issues became the de facto standard for Direct Sale destinations."

...are mine. Sounds like me, doesn't it. ;)

By the way...I also found my thank you letter from Arnold at Gemstone for my contribution to the OGG, 2nd edition. I'm famous! ;)

(worship) I'm in the presence of comic royalty!

You never answered my question though, so no like :wink:

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Just now, RockMyAmadeus said:

Yes. "Direct editions" are what they are, and the reason they were made. Calling them "Whitmans"...even if Whitman was the largest consumer of these books, and dictated the details...does a disservice to the other Direct market distributors which existed, and which were doing business, at the time.

Ignore previous post!

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By the way...back in the late 80's/early 90's, there was a "75 cent New Mutants #2 Test Cover" theory run around OPG and the Updates.

It wasn't. It was just a Canadian newsstand copy that someone found. Canadian newsstand editions exist for every single Marvel, DC, and probably Archie comic published between 1982 and Aug 86 (Marvel) Sep 88 (DC) and sometime in the 90's for Archie. Maybe they exist for others, too. But every single book printed for newsstand distribution has a corresponding Canadian newsstand edition.

The Amethyst 35 cent variants, however...? Now THOSE are interesting cats, aren't they? 

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10 hours ago, The_Investor said:

"Lazyboy" why don't you reach out to Doug Sulipa who lives in your neck of the woods. He will also tell you the exact same thing I mentioned above. He's a really nice man and is the most knowledgeable individual I know when it comes to understanding the 1980's cover price variants. Also reach out to Jon McClure who is a Comic Book historian and discovered the 30/35 cent cover price variants that we all collect today thanks to him. Jon is also saying the same thing . Both of these men are Senior Overstreet advisors as well.

No, Jon McClure didn't discover the 30/35 cent cover price variants, as I'm sure he would say as well. They have been known almost from the beginning of their existence, starting with Star Wars #1, and into the 80's with other books. Just because the rest weren't recognized in general doesn't mean they weren't "discovered" until 1998. I knew about them from the very beginnings of my time as a collector, in 1990, when I saw 25 and 30 cent variations of the same book. 

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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3 hours ago, comix4fun said:

We got them at the same time. I think that's why we didn't have an issue with ordering both types, my distributor was getting everything at once. Sounds like yours had to go to different sources for them. 

I have to go back and see if I have an of the paperwork. I know I worked with Friendly Franks and Capital City for a while in there, but I was almost positive it was Diamond. 

I want this paperwork. Now I'm going to bug you for it next time I see you.

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3 hours ago, mosconi said:

Very interesting, I had never heard of this.  Wouldn't this method of ordering allow comic dealers to return unsold newsstand copies if they wanted, which they weren't supposed to be able to do? hm Wonder if this method of ordering occurred in the late 70's and early 80's as well? I was of the mindset that newsstand copies meant just that, since they were refundable if unsold  

This was happening in the EARLY to MID 70's...which is one of the catalysts for Marvel to create the different cover dress in late 1976. As C4F mentioned, by the 80's, it had been squashed.

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18 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Phew! All caught up!

Well done Rock. You clearly know your stuff here. 

Now, if you want a real challenge,  tell me why these exist will you? (thumbsu

 

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33 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I want this paperwork. Now I'm going to bug you for it next time I see you.

Good luck with that, I can barely find my shoes in the morning. 

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By the way...now my comments at "Rare Comics" are all marked "awaiting moderation" aka "never going to be published"...including such racy comments as this one:

"

There are several inaccuracies in the sources you cited, such as Rozanski saying “different printings of monthly comics were first created by Ed Shukin, the Vice President of Marketing at at Marvel Comics, in the summer of 1979” is WRONG. Again: “different printings” began in late 1976, with the Feb, 1977 cover dated books.

Shooter says he “didn’t believe”, but that’s anecdotal, not proof.

There’s no doubt that the lion’s share of these early fat diamond (AND skinny diamond!) books went to Whitman. But there’s also no reason to think that they ONLY went to Whitman…they were, in fact, Direct market."

This is not the hallmark of a scholar, but of a liar and a hype machine. It's one thing to be inaccurate. It's quite another to ignore corrections and mute those correcting you. That moves you from a being legitimate scholar and researcher to a liar and a fraud, attempting to misinform people for your own benefit, whatever that may be. I told Mr. Nobel he ought to be ashamed of himself, and he should be. And silencing people without even bothering to explain yourself makes you a coward which, sadly, far too many people don't seem to have a problem with being these days.

I'll ask again @The_Investor: are you Benjamin Nobel? If not, are you connected with him in any way?

"Rare Comics" is just another fraudulent blog, attempting to deceive people, no doubt to manipulate the market in his favor. Such a shame, all that effort for fraud.

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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51 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Also reach out to Jon McClure who is a Comic Book historian and discovered the 30/35 cent cover price variants t

I take it back...as I did some more research, I find that Mr. McClure does, indeed, claim to be the "discoverer" of the 30/35 cent cover price variants.

http://www.jonmcclurescomics.com/

...which is odd, since Star Wars #1 35 cent has been known since almost the very beginning, and I'm not sure Mr. McClure discovered it.

And since that one has been known since the very beginning, at least in theory, so have the rest. 

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Oh God. 

http://jonmcclurescomics.com/history.html

There aren't enough face palms. 

Why does the serious scholarship, research, and quest for the facts get shoved aside in favor of hype, nonsense, and lies?

Answer: $$$.

I can't believe what I'm reading, here. It's just total nonsense. Here's an example from the above, of a call Mr. McClure claims to have had with no less than Bob Overstreet:

"I told him I had discovered several hundred Marvel comics that nobody knows about. His response was immediate: Thats impossible! Marvel is the most heavily-researched comics company ever, he said. I offered to have proof on his desk the next day. I asked him if I was right, if I could join the team, and he said, Absolutely. When I called the next day he was genuinely surprised and I have been an advisor to the Overstreet Guide ever since."

Except this isn't true. It's never been true. How do I know...? Because this information has appeared in the OPG since almost the time these books were published. MANY people knew these books existed, INCLUDING the very same Bob Overstreet who Mr. McClure claims he was talking to.

What wasn't known was the SCOPE of these variants. What wasn't known was that these variants encompassed every single book Marvel published for standard distribution. THAT'S what wasn't known. Not that nobody knew about them AT ALL.

And the way these people throw around their credentials, as if that makes them immune to error. Sadly, it works. Ever question your doctor...? 

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I think Whitman packaged their competitors books in order to gain access for their own stuff.  A store or chain might not have much interest in getting a bunch of poor selling Gold Key comics, but offer them a case of 72 3packs, half of which feature popular characters like Spider-Man, Batman and Superman and they just might be.

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1 minute ago, shadroch said:

And the thread goes off the track as RMa argues incessantly over the meaning of someone's  words. It was fun while it lasted.  

Why do you say things like this...? Do you think it makes any discussion better, or worse...? Do you think everyone agrees with your assessment...?

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2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Other companies involved in what? Direct market distribution, or Direct market cover marking?

No, it's not safe to say that. There were multiple Direct market distributors...Seagate, Bud Plant, Pacific Comics etc....before Marvel started experimenting with cover dress in late 1976. 

Aside to @Lazyboy and @darkstar...would it kill ya to give some of my posts a like once in a while...? meh I go around, liking all your posts, and get NO love in return. Jeez.

Allegedly we're the same person though, so all of my liked posts are also your liked posts.

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4 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Why do you say things like this...? Do you think it makes any discussion better, or worse...? Do you think everyone agrees with your assessment...?

McClure says he told Bob about hundreds of books that didn't exist. You say its impossible because everyone knew a few of them existed, but admit no one realized the extent of how many variants actually existed.  Same you pull everytime someone posts something you don't agree with.

Anyway, as I said. It was a fun thread for awhile. 

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