▫️ Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 35 minutes ago, stinkininkin said: I'm sensing a lot more resistance based on physical OA condition issues than ever before, at least judged by this message board sampling. Is that because a lot of you have migrated over from comic collecting and it's condition centric orientation? Scott I collected high grade SA comics in the past and that has no bearing on the original art I pick up. Some of my 80’s art has tanning, stats, clipping and paste-ups and that’s completely fine (and pretty cool) as it was all part of the production process. I may draw the line at water damage though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESeffinga Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I'm fighting an internal struggle right now over this very thing. I've been talking to someone about picking up a piece from one of my favorite books. The pros are: I love the artist, and I love this piece. Killer image, dynamic, fun. All the elements I could ever want. It's just one of those books I have a very very soft spot for. Even more than the work the artist is most well known for. The cons: A portion of it has markers used as black filler. It's not the main feature of the art. It's almost all india ink. The marker is used in an outer area by the edges of the piece to shade a piece of machinery. At first I thought it was a thin india ink wash, not unlike a later era Mignola original, when he sent me a photo of the page with his camera flash going off, but after chatting with the art's owner and having him send me a pic of the back, I'm pretty convinced it's marker in that outer region. It's not washed out. It looks "good" right now. But I've been anti marker for so long.... Mitigating factor: I think I've counted 4, maybe 5 pieces of art (including this one) from this book that are out in the wild since publication decades ago. So it's not like I can just go out and get another piece from this book when it comes along. The question is can I hold my nose? Normally I'm a stickler for my own art collecting rules. But I'm seriously SERIOUSLY considering breaking this one (and another in the same deal, but that's a separate topic) So the question I have is, what would it take to make you break your own deal-breaker rules?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meeley Man Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) . Edited December 22, 2017 by Meeley Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaeld Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 52 minutes ago, ESeffinga said: So the question I have is, what would it take to make you break your own deal-breaker rules?!? A very strong sense of nostalgia may make me break my deal breaker rule. I'm anti restoration so I would have to be able to live with it as is so it would really have to be a piece that pulls at my heart strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Machismo Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 55 minutes ago, Meeley Man said: My deal breakers: Playing games with the price or desire to sell This. Someone here PMd me the other week asking me to make an offer on their page which was not for sale. No thanks! Meeley Man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 My only deal breakers are 1) I don’t like the art; 2) Price. If I like the art, every single other “flaw” mentioned can be overcome if the price is right. But, even f I don’t like the art, I might take it if you give it to me for free. Squeezy McSphincter and Hudson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Hal Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 A little tanning isn't a deal-breaker for me, but water damage will make me walk away. So will mold. A small, discreet signature in the body of the art bugs me a little, but won't stop me from buying. A bold, distracting scrawl within the artwork bothers me too much. A paper tear extending into the artwork will scare me away. Any question that the artwork might be a forgery does the same thing. That's why, when I wanted a nice Bruce Timm example, I focused on published panel pages or covers. Not impossible to fake but much more of a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 $ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Peck Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Bill C said: That might be part of it. If you started collecting art in the 80's I would think damage wouldn't matter as much as the pages were cheaper (comparatively). Also today, 30 years later, the same bronze age pages (for example) may have acquired a lot more creasing, missing pieces, mold, moisture damage, fading inks, etc in that time- making condition more of a factor than years before. Most things are not a dealer breakers for me usually nostalgia overcomes most things. One issue that can be for me is markers (don't get me started on Copics). Especially when it comes to published art and sometimes commissioned drawings. With markers on published art its the bleeding either away from the line or thru to the other side of the paper. Fading on older art is also a concern. While I would love a Death of Captain Marvel by Starlin the use of markers and the fading has kept me from going after some. Also effects my collecting Gil Kane art, though his markers don't fade like DOCM I don't care for the line many of the markers Gil used. His use of markers has turned me off to some of his originals but he did some art that he inked or others that I would be open to buying. I am also a marker snob (most of my collector friends know this). I prefer getting con drawings and commissions that are done in pencil or india ink. Some exceptions but when I have the option, marker is not what I choose. I just like the line a good brush using india ink produces. Ya, the artists here will say I don't know what I am talking about. Its just personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 A Stan Lee signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glendgold Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 15 hours ago, Nexus said: Who the seller is can be a deal breaker for me. Preach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flambit Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 16 hours ago, RICKYBOBBY said: Faded inks. That's unacceptable to me and doesn't matter how old the page. As for the toned pages I don't mind if they are from the 60s.. those pages are nearly 60 years old so it's not that big of a deal. I generally don't have that much on an issue with condition. I know the Daredevil #168 cover has a ton of white out on it to create the lightning effects and I wouldn't turn that cover down (I'm sure I won't ever own it either, so that's all academic). And marker is ok, but there are certain specific pieces I've turned down because of fading issues: The Byrne WCA cover - I believe it was 56 - the owner was selling on caf about ten years ago and disclosed (I'm grateful he did, it was definitely the right thing to do) that, I'm trying to remember exactly here, but I think there is a bunch of marker work on the Scarlet Witch that was turning purple. And I just couldn't pull the trigger despite how much I love that cover. I've heard some Preacher pages also have issues with fading as well. I know the owner of the big Hollywood comic store Meltdown had this crazy amount of OA on the walls in his original location - this would have been 05-06 - and one of the pieces I vividly remember was the Preacher page where Jessie, Tulip and Cassidy have the Polaroid picture taken of the three of them - the bottom of the page is a half splash of that picture... and I seem to recall there was some fading damage on it, but I'm not sure... it was many years ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaeld Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 I forgot to mention this one. There was a Frank Cho cover that I have been strongly considering for years. I felt the price was too much but if I were to come into some money that would easily cover it then I would buy. Recently a good chunk of money fell onto my lap so I went to the site to have a look at the piece. To my shock a signature by Stan Lee was recently added to the piece. To make matters worse he signed it on Ms. Marvels hip. I may have been able to live with it had he signed in on the side but now all you see is Stan Lee in black marker covering the sexiest part of Ms. Marvel. Heart breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnusX Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 On November 2, 2017 at 2:36 AM, Michaeld said: So what is your deal breaker if any? Poor Costumer Service to me. I used to be a collector of CGC SS A dealer in particular had sour the enjoyment for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoV Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 On 03/11/2017 at 7:23 AM, Brian Peck said: While I would love a Death of Captain Marvel by Starlin the use of markers and the fading has kept me from going after some. The same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) On 11/2/2017 at 11:11 PM, Bill C said: That might be part of it. If you started collecting art in the 80's I would think damage wouldn't matter as much as the pages were cheaper (comparatively). Also today, 30 years later, the same bronze age pages (for example) may have acquired a lot more creasing, missing pieces, mold, moisture damage, fading inks, etc in that time- making condition more of a factor than years before. I think the sign that Comic collectors are starting to migrate into OA collecting is a focus on condition. When I first jumped into the hobby in Earnest a couple of years ago, I bought a page from an 80's book that I liked at a con. The word balloons were glued on, and the glue had started to become brittle. So, I passed on a piece from that same artists and book that I liked a bit more because it was missing word balloons, and bought one that I still liked but was more intact. If I had to do it all over again, I might have bought the other piece. I assumed, because I was a complete novice, that the missing word balloons really affected the value. Now, I know better. Those can be restored easily to a published piece, and so long as you disclose it, it doesn't really have any impact on the value. Moreover, unless the page is famous for the dialogue on the page, it is the art that matters more than the words on the page. In any case, condition is definitely something that comic collectors who make the transition focus on, because condition is the most important aspect of comic collecting. It takes a while to figure out that these are unique pieces, and that there are not going to be any "better" examples of that page in the market to compare it to. That's it. If you want that page, you have to pay the price the owner requires. Edited November 7, 2017 by PhilipB2k17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, NicoV said: The same! If anybody has any of those pages that would like to part with them because of fading marker, please let me know! Edited November 7, 2017 by PhilipB2k17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 On 11/3/2017 at 2:23 AM, Brian Peck said: Most things are not a dealer breakers for me usually nostalgia overcomes most things. One issue that can be for me is markers (don't get me started on Copics). Especially when it comes to published art and sometimes commissioned drawings. With markers on published art its the bleeding either away from the line or thru to the other side of the paper. Fading on older art is also a concern. While I would love a Death of Captain Marvel by Starlin the use of markers and the fading has kept me from going after some. Also effects my collecting Gil Kane art, though his markers don't fade like DOCM I don't care for the line many of the markers Gil used. His use of markers has turned me off to some of his originals but he did some art that he inked or others that I would be open to buying. I am also a marker snob (most of my collector friends know this). I prefer getting con drawings and commissions that are done in pencil or india ink. Some exceptions but when I have the option, marker is not what I choose. I just like the line a good brush using india ink produces. Ya, the artists here will say I don't know what I am talking about. Its just personal preference. I think 99% of artists would agree with you, frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 On 11/2/2017 at 4:31 PM, Mr. Machismo said: This. Someone here PMd me the other week asking me to make an offer on their page which was not for sale. No thanks! The potential seller may be testing the market, but if I really wanted the page, I would have made a starting offer. What's the harm in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Machismo Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Rick2you2 said: The potential seller may be testing the market, but if I really wanted the page, I would have made a starting offer. What's the harm in that? Because I know a couple years ago he already asked 2-3x what it’s worth. That’s the harm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
