Build an Enthusiasts Collection without 1#'s or 1st App. across Every Age 2 2

[Krydel4]

In this age of #1's and 1st App. being king and the value of comics being speculative driven by appearances of characters in other mediums I feel that comics themselves being "cool" or merely having their own intrinsic value as comics is gone. Run collectors are pretty much considered dinosaurs in this new world. I started to think about what comics do we as enthusiasts consider that have worth based upon its historical significance or storyline or subject matter inside our world without outside forces influencing its worth (movie/tv show). What would a collection built solely without any of the speculative books (#1's or 1st App.) contain? So for fun I started out with 5 DC Books spanning Gold, Silver, Bronze, Copper and Modern. Feel free to add away as I know there are many board members with lots of knowledge about comic significant issues.

All-Star Comics #3

Flash #123

Green Lantern #76 

Batman: The Killing Joke

Superman #75

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Krydel4

[Semicentennial]

54 minutes ago, Krydel4 said:

In this age of #1's and 1st App. being king and the value of comics being speculative driven by appearances of characters in other mediums I feel that comics themselves being "cool" or merely having their own intrinsic value as comics is gone. Run collectors are pretty much considered dinosaurs in this new world. I started to think about what comics do we as enthusiasts consider that have worth based upon its historical significance or storyline or subject matter inside our world without outside forces influencing its worth (movie/tv show). What would a collection built solely without any of the speculative books (#1's or 1st App.) contain? So for fun I started out with 5 DC Books spanning Gold, Silver, Bronze, Copper and Modern. Feel free to add away as I know there are many board members with lots of knowledge about comic significant issues.

All-Star Comics #3

Flash #123

Green Lantern #76 

Batman: The Killing Joke

Superman #75

 

Aren't 4 of the 5 books listed either a 1st appearance or #1?

[Readcomix]

Fun topic! Certainly in GA, lots of GGA, classic horror and crime are actively collected without necessarily the #1/1st app benefit. I do think some of the influential firsts of that era are undervalued compared to superhero keys (CDNP 22, Mad 1, etc)

One could also pick and choose the best runs within full runs to collect, aside from keys and major first apps. (Eg - not just GL 76 but the whole O'Neil/Adams run, though there's a big first app within it), the Byrne/Claremont X-men, certain ASM story arcs such as the drug issues and 31-33 off the top of my head. There's also the Shooter/Perez Avengers era, which was completely overshadowed by the Byrne/Claremont X-men, but I actually preferred the Avengers run.

So I guess I'm saying sub-runs are an option for those who neither want to chase full sets or expensive keys. 

[Krydel4]

8 minutes ago, Fiddy said:

Aren't 4 of the 5 books listed either a 1st appearance or #1?

A 1st appearance is Drax in Iron Man #55 (as defined by Overstreet) . None of the characters in the books listed above make their 1st appearances. Batman: The Killing Joke is a one-shot.

[grebal]

Death of Gwen Stacy and then Goblin are easy ones.  Avengers 93 still holds a place of appreciation although it's stature has slipped a lot since olden times.  Hulk vs hero, like Thor and Thing still attract attention (FF 12, 26, 112, Thor 112).  Some artist firsts still have a good demand and remained popular, like DD 158 and to a lesser degree X-Men 56 or 107.

Edit: forgot copper, maybe ASM 301 qualifies?

Edited November 4, 2017 by grebal

[Shadow Images]

All Star 3 is 1st app of JSA.  1st Appearances since GA or SA has always been a driving factor, i.e. Flash 123, as is being driving some by current speculation. They are the default books when the 1st appearance is too high for average collectors. The reason books like Batman 171 have gone up so much.   Things like Batman 227 or Spirit 22 would, to me be better examples of issue without current movie speculation driving them. If thats the type of list your a thinking of.

[Lazyboy]

23 minutes ago, Fiddy said:

Aren't 4 of the 5 books listed either a 1st appearance or #1?

The Killing Joke could maybe be considered a #1 and the first appearance of the JSA is definitely a first appearance, but I'm not sure what you're thinking of for the others.

I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is. Are we just supposed to list non-first-appearance keys (which are also being speculated on right now) that don't also happen to be first issues?

[oakman29]

I collect complete runs of Creepy, Eerie, and Vampirella. Really no keys in that.

[Krydel4]

15 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

The Killing Joke could maybe be considered a #1 and the first appearance of the JSA is definitely a first appearance, but I'm not sure what you're thinking of for the others.

I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is. Are we just supposed to list non-first-appearance keys (which are also being speculated on right now) that don't also happen to be first issues?

ASM 31-33 is a great example. Books that are valued and wanted by collectors because of their story, historical significance, creative team etc. that are not 1st App. (All-Star 3 is the 1st JSA but is not the 1st App. of the characters nor is it a 1st issue) or are 1st issues. 

[Westy Steve]

1 hour ago, Readcomix said:

Fun topic! Certainly in GA, lots of GGA, classic horror and crime are actively collected without necessarily the #1/1st app benefit. I do think some of the influential firsts of that era are undervalued compared to superhero keys (CDNP 22, Mad 1, etc)

One could also pick and choose the best runs within full runs to collect, aside from keys and major first apps. (Eg - not just GL 76 but the whole O'Neil/Adams run, though there's a big first app within it), the Byrne/Claremont X-men, certain ASM story arcs such as the drug issues and 31-33 off the top of my head. There's also the Shooter/Perez Avengers era, which was completely overshadowed by the Byrne/Claremont X-men, but I actually preferred the Avengers run.

So I guess I'm saying sub-runs are an option for those who neither want to chase full sets or expensive keys. 

Yes, yes.  Mini Runs.  I am putting together a set of Giant Size X-Men 1 through X-Men 101 in higher grade.  Yes, there are keys in there, but I was trying to get the core issues of the series when the "New X-Men" were still new and full of possibilities.  I like that the series runs from key to key.

FWIW, I also collect coins.  Mini runs are common there, and are even tracked as accepted registry sets by the slabbing companies.  A neat one is the set of silver nickels made during the war years.  Mini-runs are awesome.  I've considered doing a run of Conan 1 through Conan 10 in 9.4 just for the heck of it.  No need to obligate myself to collecting all of them when I can get the TPBs, but still challenging and satisfying to gather them in high grade.  Other ideas would be a "best of Neal Adams" set or other artists.

 

[revat]

Silver surfer 4

Batman 612 2nd print

Walking dead 6

[Ken Aldred]

Pre-code 50s material has a number of expensive issues based upon having a particularly gory cover rather than anything much to do with specific internal content , such as Crime Suspenstories 22.  Another example from the era would be Weird Science-Fantasy 29's Frank Frazetta cover; not one of the better EC science-fiction issues overall.

A Bronze Age example is Batman 227, with its excellent Neal Adams cover over quite mediocre content, and a long on-going discussion here about it being more significant than the first Ra's Al Ghul in 232 or the brilliant artwork and psychopathic Joker in 251.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[Ken Aldred]

5 hours ago, Krydel4 said:

 

In this age of #1's and 1st App. being king and the value of comics being speculative driven by appearances of characters in other mediums I feel that comics themselves being "cool" or merely having their own intrinsic value as comics is gone

 

I ignore the speculation frenzy by enjoying reading books from all Ages in physical reprint or digital format;  first appearance or run filler, it's pretty much irrelevant.

What's going on presently hasn't lessened my opinion about how there's something incredibly cool and special about the stories and artwork you can find across all Ages.

The way I do it, for me, creates little in the way of disillusionment or stress.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[chrisco37]

Interesting topic.  

GA - not sure on a specific issue, but maybe something with a cool LB Cole cover?

Atomic/PCH - a Graham Ingles or Jack Davis cover EC (TFTC, VOH, etc.)

Silver Age - Maybe something like Strange Tales 107 (classic cover) or, as others have said, ASM 31-33 is a classic arc.  Daredevil 16 (1st Romita Spidey)

BA - I like SS4 here (another classic cover) or ASM 121/122

Copper/90's - Hulk 340

Modern - Batman 608

 

[Semicentennial]

9 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

The Killing Joke could maybe be considered a #1 and the first appearance of the JSA is definitely a first appearance, but I'm not sure what you're thinking of for the others.

I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is. Are we just supposed to list non-first-appearance keys (which are also being speculated on right now) that don't also happen to be first issues?

All Star Comics #3 - 1st JSA

Flash #123 - 1st Earth 2

Green Lantern #76 - 1st GL/GA team up (may be a stretch to call it their first appearance together as a team?)

Batman: Killing Joke - I considered this as a #1

 

 

[october]

42 minutes ago, chrisco37 said:

Interesting topic.  

GA - not sure on a specific issue, but maybe something with a cool LB Cole cover?

 

 

Cole books are in the midst of an insane runup. His romance stuff has gone through the roof, with prices jumping 5-10x within the last year. Nice horror stuff, when you can find it, also trades for 3-4x what it did a year or two ago. 

It sucks. 

[EBE]

The type of collector the OP describes pretty much fits me; I collect comics that demonstrate the "Zeitgeist" of the time, or I collect whatever I find interesting/attractive, and what's going on in other media has zilch to do with what I collect!

To illustrate:

I actively seek comics that push the allied war effort (Buy bonds! Save your paper! Start a Victory Garden!) or make a political statement (ex: Pep 20 and 27) but am not very interested in the run of the mill WW2 comic showing a superhero stomping axis forces.

My Sparky Watts run is almost complete (who???), as is my Hickory run (a comic about a tree???).

I am working on collecting all the WW2 comics that have a B-29 somewhere on the cover. This is in memory of my father, who flew B-29s in WW2.

Well, you get the idea.  --ElJay

[Jayman]

9 hours ago, oakman29 said:

I collect complete runs of Creepy, Eerie, and Vampirella. Really no keys in that.

It's the key to enjoying our hobby! 

[Jayman]

Over the years I've learned and found various different aspects that pique my interest other than key firsts and number one issues. Case in point, this issue of Strange Tales that coincides with the demise of the Precode EC horror line. It was pointed out by another board member that Everett drew Gaines and Feldstein on this cover as a tribute. It does look like them, and the title: "The end of the line" seems to fit.

 

[Martin Sinescu]

Two that spring to mind immediately for me are Swamp Thing 21 and Daredevil 181. Naturally, "death" issues will pop up if you're eliminating first appearances because those are often some of the most dramatic storylines as we've already seen Supey 75 and ASM 121/122 suggested.

Along with Killing Joke, which is one of my favorite stand-alone stories, and Swampy Guy 21, both Batman Annual 11 and the two "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" issues (Superman 423/Action 583) are also superlative Alan Moore stories.

I'd throw in the Judas Contract stories from Teen Titans, but there's a first appearance in there somewhere