Robert Kirkmans History of Comics 1 1

[Captain Canuck]

What was everyone's thoughts on the premiere episode in the 6 part series? I found it very informative and well done. New episode Monday night. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Captain Canuck

[piper]

I recorded the episode tonight and will let you know...

[Jayman]

8 hours ago, Captain Canuck said:

What was everyone's thoughts on the premiere episode in the 6 part series? I found it very informative and well done. New episode Monday night. 

I thought the best part of this episode was when Stan was asked why Jack Kirby left Marvel. His facial expression really changed and I didn't really buy his answer. Same thing when he then mentioned Steve Ditko. The old footage and the radio interview phone call between Stan and Jack made this well worth watching! ?

[comix4fun]

1 hour ago, Jayman said:

I thought the best part of this episode was when Stan was asked why Jack Kirby left Marvel. His facial expression really changed and I didn't really buy his answer. Same thing when he then mentioned Steve Ditko. The old footage and the radio interview phone call between Stan and Jack made this well worth watching! ?

Exactly. 

When you see Stan's reaction when he was asked it started with "Well, I'm going to be completely honest with you...." which, when you hear that from anyone,  is usually a prelude to anything but the truth.

"I have no idea why Jack quit...I was away when Jack quit...I was in Europe....or somewhere...but I was away on the day Jack quit...and someone told me that Jack quit but I never got a reason from anyone as to why."

That line comes after 15 minutes of descriptions of how Stan and Jack fought over credit, control, compensation, etc etc. for YEARS....and he says that, since he wasn't in the office on the particular DAY that Kirby quit, that he has NO IDEA as to why? Really? REALLY??

 

Agree on the radio interview tape, that and all the footage of kirby being interviewed at various times makes the whole thing worth watching. 

 

[Silver Surfer]

In fairness to Stan he is just an employee like Jack and back then you either tow the line or you would be toast. Interesting that they wouldn't even allow artists to have their lawyers review contracts prior to signing them. Again, probably a common employer tactic back in the day, sign it or see you later.

[nearmint]

I'm really surprised that AMC agreed to hour-long episodes.  This material is so geared towards us, comics fans, but does the general viewing public really have enough interest to hold them for an hour each week?

[comix4fun]

32 minutes ago, Silver Surfer said:

In fairness to Stan he is just an employee like Jack and back then you either tow the line or you would be toast. Interesting that they wouldn't even allow artists to have their lawyers review contracts prior to signing them. Again, probably a common employer tactic back in the day, sign it or see you later.

I'm not saying that Stan was the one doing it all the Jack, I am saying it's disingenuous for him to say that, because he wasn't physically in the office the day Jack quit or the day Steve quit, he has no idea at all why they quit. 

[comicwiz]

8 hours ago, Jayman said:

I thought the best part of this episode was when Stan was asked why Jack Kirby left Marvel. His facial expression really changed and I didn't really buy his answer. Same thing when he then mentioned Steve Ditko. The old footage and the radio interview phone call between Stan and Jack made this well worth watching! ?

I agree. I was overcome with a deep sadness during this part of the segment. Many of the things, including the words written by that journo-hack trash Nat Freedland, I'd heard or read, but it was how it was being presented now, in a different format from the written word, that really hit me in a different way. I agree that the old radio footage was a much needed part of the whole experience for me - hearing him say what he did to The King made his megalomaniac tendencies seem somewhat tolerable.

Edited November 13, 2017 by comicwiz

[Jayman]

6 hours ago, Silver Surfer said:

In fairness to Stan he is just an employee like Jack and back then you either tow the line or you would be toast. Interesting that they wouldn't even allow artists to have their lawyers review contracts prior to signing them. Again, probably a common employer tactic back in the day, sign it or see you later.

As they even mention in this episode, the magic couldn't have happened with Stan alone. But I totally agree Stan was the showman, mover and shaker that propelled Marvel into greatness. Kirby just didn't have that personality going for him. Doesn't make it right to cast him aside in the credit where credit is due department!

[Jayman]

6 hours ago, nearmint said:

I'm really surprised that AMC agreed to hour-long episodes.  This material is so geared towards us, comics fans, but does the general viewing public really have enough interest to hold them for an hour each week?

Me too but I jealously don't care! 

The geek in me is loving it. But you are right, the average viewer probably only recognized Stan Lee while saying "who the heck is that guy?" About Jack Kirby! 

[Silver Surfer]

On 11/13/2017 at 6:59 PM, Jayman said:

As they even mention in this episode, the magic couldn't have happened with Stan alone. But I totally agree Stan was the showman, mover and shaker that propelled Marvel into greatness. Kirby just didn't have that personality going for him. Doesn't make it right to cast him aside in the credit where credit is due department!

I totally agree but Stan was paid to be the boss, the bad guy, control costs, etc. It's not like it was his company to give discretion and royalties on character rights and back then it was Marvel,  DC or nothing so artists/writers didn't exactly have much leverage. Perhaps that is why you could see the grimace on his face because he hated that part of the job and what it did to personal relationships with guys like Jack who helped build the Marvel universe?

I always thought that DC in the GA era had a bunch of weirdos but the last episode showcasing the creator of Wonder Woman just took that to another level. They really had some quirky dudes in that bullpen.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Silver Surfer

[Ares]

How many episodes to this series?

 

[50 Cent #II (1st)]

You people saying that Stan was paid to be the boss and it was expected then.  Well the interview where he states he doesn't know why Jack left seems rather recent and he still seems to not want to admit what went on back then so I don't give him any pass for what happened in the past as he can't admit now what took place.

[Captain Canuck]

9 hours ago, Ares said:

How many episodes to this series?

 

6 episodes. Hopefully there will be a season 2. I feel there is always more to explore. 

[comic_memories]

New respect for the great Neal Adams for helping Superman creators Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel in getting long overdue recognition and  money back in the late 70's !

[N e r V]

I’m enjoying the series as a whole. I like the way the material is presented with actors or animation giving us glimpses into the past. It also has a good variety of guests adding their comments into what’s presented. Nice that they are jumping around too with subject matter. Episode 4 (New York/9-11) was the weakest so far although it kept me interested because of the episodes “guest” speakers. 

I hope it gets renewed for a season 2 and I hope they release season 1 on disc at some point. 

[N e r V]

As for episodes 1 Stan and Jack piece without getting into taking “sides” of events I think Mark Evaniers remark about him feeling that it was more about Stan should have spoke up for Jack during that time is probably something left to your opinions on if it’s reasonable to expect that of him or if it was more about Jack not being able to stand up for himself. Either way I found it to be a good point made by Evanier on the subject. I also thought the point of Jack’s wife being “protective?” or just bitter against Stan might have been something that kept the two from making bridges in the relationship. I think Shooter was telling that story in the episode and I seem to remember a couple of other meetings where she “blocked” Stan out from  Jack when maybe it would have been better to let them try and work it out. Maybe that was more of Shooters take on the subject from his interviews. I can’t remember right now.

With all the bitterness cast aside from the Lee/Kirby/Ditko relationship we are still left with the same conclusion regardless of who did what or what percentage all 3 were needed to get what we got from that amazing period in comics. None of them could have done it alone.

Edited November 29, 2017 by N e r V

[drotto]

5 hours ago, N e r V said:

I’m enjoying the series as a whole. I like the way the material is presented with actors or animation giving us glimpses into the past. It also has a good variety of guests adding their comments into what’s presented. Nice that they are jumping around too with subject matter. Episode 4 (New York/9-11) was the weakest so far although it kept me interested because of the episodes “guest” speakers. 

I hope it gets renewed for a season 2 and I hope they release season 1 on disc at some point. 

I agree the 4th episode was much weaker.  The first three episodes covered very seminal events and creators in comics, and really those episodes were centered around the creators.  In the Wonder Woman episode I think the it was 15 minutes in before she was really mentioned. Like many here I lived through 9/11. I felt the impact. I saw the smoke over New York.  I know people and neighborhoods that were directly affected.  I saw the connections the show was trying to make between reality changing comics, and comics needing to change with the times, but those are things that have been constant through comic history.  Changing ideals have always been reflected in comics.  These things were already clearly shown in the first three episodes, not sure the episode proved its hypothesis that 9/11 was any more important to comics than WW 2, the 60's, Vietnam, or so many other seminal events in the last 75 years.

 

Still found it enjoyable, and the events it was centered around have lasting memories for me personally, and are much more important to Earth's history as a whole.  From solely a comic history perspective not sure if it is on the same level as creating Superman, Wonder Woman, or the birth of the Marvel Universe.

[Knightsofold]

The Wonder Woman one was full of inaccuracies and a terribly mixed up time of events.   For drama's sake....

[N e r V]

14 hours ago, Knightsofold said:

The Wonder Woman one was full of inaccuracies and a terribly mixed up time of events.   For drama's sake....

Some of the timetables I thought were mixed up in several episodes but I didn’t think they were trying to present all the information in chronological order at times. 

I’ve read a bit over the years on the Wonder Woman creator(s) but I’m no expert so what did they get wrong and what time events bothered you?

I did notice Max Gaines was in the Wonder Woman episode but not at all mentioned in the Superman one as the guy who sent it up for use in Action Comics #1.

If the series continues they should do a Max and William Gaines episode. Lots of history with both of them.