1Cool Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Can you make a living (over $30k in my book) doing that? Sounds like a lot of work with a lot of risks but I guess it does sound fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Cool Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 54 minutes ago, shadroch said: VP, with near perfect play can get you close to even. Add in cashback and comp club points and you turn the game positive. The real money is in exploiting casinos loyalty clubs. Not to difficult to do, once you learn how clubs work. In some cases, losing $1,000 today will get you $50 in freeplay and a meal each week for a year. Blackjack is exploitable, but VP is your best shot. Lots of double, triple and even ten times points day in Vegas. Lots of over 55 specials as well. Today, I'm eating lunch in a place that gives a free lunch for cycling $20 thru a video poker machine. Nice fried clams, fries and a beer for an expected loss of less than fifty cents. What kind of a meal are we talking about? If it's a $10 meal (pretty common in off strip casinos from what I see) then you are losing $1,000 for $550 in free stuff. I guess you could win $1,000 next time but the amount of mental hussle to possibly break even gets me anxious just thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) Make a living? Some people do, I don't, but I don't need to. To me it's a fun part time job. In the end, I may clear $700-800 a month working maybe four hours a week. That's not gambling. That's just exploiting mailers and clubs. I might gamble another 3-4 hours a week. That's results are more choppy. There is actually very little risk involved. Lots of studying clubs and networking with other people, finding promotions and match play coupons.. Edited November 16, 2017 by shadroch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizards2 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, shadroch said: Make a living? Some people do, I don't. To me it's a fun part time job. In the end, I may clear $700-800 a month working maybe four hours a week. That's not gambling. That's just exploiting mailers and clubs. There is actually very little risk involved. Lots of studying clubs and networking with other people, finding promotions and match play coupons.. Do they still allow smoking in those Nevada places? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, 1Cool said: What kind of a meal are we talking about? If it's a $10 meal (pretty common in off strip casinos from what I see) then you are losing $1,000 for $550 in free stuff. I guess you could win $1,000 next time but the amount of mental hussle to possibly break even gets me anxious just thinking about it. You are not factoring in the $50 a week in free play. That's $2600, figure you lose 20%, so your $1,000 loss becomes $$2,000 in cash plus a meal. Would you lend someone $1,000 if they agreed to pay you back $45 and buy you lunch every week for a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 1 minute ago, lizards2 said: Do they still allow smoking in those Nevada places? Sadly, yes. Although more and more places are offering smoke free sections. I tend to play off hours so it doesn't really bother me that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizards2 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, shadroch said: 5 minutes ago, lizards2 said: Do they still allow smoking in those Nevada places? Sadly, yes. Although more and more places are offering smoke free sections. I tend to play off hours so it doesn't really bother me that much. I never realized how terrible exposure to those places made me feel, until it was banned in most places. No more "smoke hangovers". And I still smoke one to two weeks out of the year, when we have deer and/or elk tags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 It really doesn't bother me, except when I get in the car the next day and it smells of smoke from my clothes the night before, I realize how nasty it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwoogieman Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 As long as there wasn't a live (or dead) animal in one of the mystery boxes, it sounds like it went okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFan Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, shadroch said: VP, with near perfect play can get you close to even. Add in cashback and comp club points and you turn the game positive. The real money is in exploiting casinos loyalty clubs. Not too difficult to do, once you learn how clubs work. In some cases, losing $1,000 today will get you $50 in freeplay and a meal each week for a year. Blackjack is exploitable, but VP is your best shot. Lots of double, triple and even ten times points day in Vegas. Lots of over 55 specials as well. Today, I'm eating lunch in a place that gives a free lunch for cycling $20 thru a video poker machine. Nice fried clams, fries and a beer for an expected loss of less than fifty cents. Working as a dealer in a casino as my full time job, I can say that, whatever you're doing to make it profitable for you, you're a very rare breed. I always tell my players to enjoy the experience and not focus on the wins and losses -- it's much more fun for them that way. ETA: Hope your boxes you picked up all turn out well -- that was definitely an interesting way for that gentleman to go about selling his stock, but hopefully it turned out to be worth it for both of you for what you ended up picking up. Edited November 16, 2017 by ChiSoxFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefires Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 14 hours ago, lizards2 said: I never realized how terrible exposure to those places made me feel, until it was banned in most places. No more "smoke hangovers". And I still smoke one to two weeks out of the year, when we have deer and/or elk tags. Yes, I hate the smoking. When my wife and I go to Vegas, we go to bed early and then gamble from 6 AM till about noon. The rest of the day we just like to walk around and see the sights. We also don't go in the summer because it is too hot. October/November are our favorite months to go. I wish one of the mega casinos would take a chance and go smoke free. They might be pleasantly surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFan Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 29 minutes ago, icefires said: I wish one of the mega casinos would take a chance and go smoke free. They might be pleasantly surprised. The Harrah's in New Orleans is smoke-free, though not by choice. The Orleans Parish City Council passed an ordinance a couple of years back banning smoking in all bars, restaurants, and the casino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo749 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 18 hours ago, shadroch said: VP, with near perfect play can get you close to even. Add in cashback and comp club points and you turn the game positive. The real money is in exploiting casinos loyalty clubs. Not too difficult to do, once you learn how clubs work. In some cases, losing $1,000 today will get you $50 in freeplay and a meal each week for a year. Blackjack is exploitable, but VP is your best shot. Lots of double, triple and even ten times points day in Vegas. Lots of over 55 specials as well. Today, I'm eating lunch in a place that gives a free lunch for cycling $20 thru a video poker machine. Nice fried clams, fries and a beer for an expected loss of less than fifty cents. Found the VP training software disc. I didn't remember the disc was numbered, looks like over 40,000 copies were produced. I used to use this before heading to Vegas on vacation. It has pretty much all the popular games and different paytables. Neat thing about is that you can adjust how much feedback the program gives you, it can let you make mistakes and review them after or it can warn you before make a mistake and break "perfect play". At one time I was really into figuring out the game and best play strategies. Long time ago I was part of a Toastmasters Club and for my second "speech" I presented on finding the right VP machine with right paytable. Quite nerdy for a New Yorker who only vent Vegas on vacation. Oh and my first "speech" for Toastmasters was to present a list of the top 3 people I would like to meet. After I did a 5-7 minute speech talking about Ice-T, Dave Mustaine, and Bruce Campbell as my top 3, I got some strange looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamerica Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) On 11/17/2017 at 2:16 AM, icefires said: Yes, I hate the smoking. When my wife and I go to Vegas, we go to bed early and then gamble from 6 AM till about noon. The rest of the day we just like to walk around and see the sights. We also don't go in the summer because it is too hot. October/November are our favorite months to go. I wish one of the mega casinos would take a chance and go smoke free. They might be pleasantly surprised. There was ONE complete non-smoking Casino: Tom's. Lasted a short time. No business. Gamblers smoke. I clearly remember when Tom's closed my Uncle on my Mother's side worked there. No business; gamblers smoke. 1987: Maryland was the FIRST state to push the health kick: non-smoking. CA tries to say they THEY were the first State to implement the non-smoking ban, but having maintaned residences in both states for years I can attest that CA is misinformed. No one really challenges this too much. Back to MD, Jan 1 1987 the ban on smoking started. We went from 18 Poker tables and 12 blackjack tables ALL FULL SEATING with wait lists that went until 11PM( closed at midnight) to ONE poker table and ONE blackjack table. The Asians went to the MD Legislature to bring back the smoking. March that year that ban was overturned. Went from the ONE table per section to FULL tables with wait lists that ran from 112 AM to 11 PM, the old standard. During the slowdowns, I had to send people home every day as there was no work. Some gambled at the tables until the State said that they could not compete against the customers( the GOOD Dealers/Floormen/Chip runners or Brush) wiped up the felt tables almost every night and the crybabies complained), so there was 34 places they had to play at - just not where THEY worked. FWIW, the proper term for a newbie starting out in the Casino business, yuor job was literally named, "BRUSH PERSONNEL". You made sandwiches, Valet vehicles, took out the trash, set mouse traps, cleaned the poker/blackjack chips( they get incredibly filthy from all the people eating food then handling the old clay-based chips), cleaned the cards, fixed short decks( cards get bent, etc.), BRUSHED the green felts off regularly, changed light bulbs, fixed microphones, sat customers to their seats, worked the "Board" where the new customer arrives and signs up for the game of his/her choice, and other duties assigned. That's how I started, and we had the old Maxim Personnel and Barbary Coast people that had relatives in Jersey. They were the SMARTEST people on the planet, and maintained the lowest profile imaginable. The few times TV/newspeople tried to get "heat" for some bull story as fodder, those old Wise Guys shown them the door EVERY time. Of course when the rooms got bigger, the Feds stepped in and forced them to hire "others" based on quotas, etc. The Top Brass filtered each department down in Sub S Corps to keep the number of employees less than 50( not exactly sure as it has been since the late 1970's), to which any "unwanteds" would never pass the dealer's auditions( to which I am a firm believer in even to this day). I can't tell you how many of their "girlfriends/mistresses" I had to hand-hold for YEARS because they could not do the job but they were pretty, thus the bosses forced them on us. Those girls rarely ever auditioned, and the few that did "miraculously" got approved by the top brass. Their "protected species" as I STILL refer to them to this very day as, they were NOT firable unless the cameras caught them stealing, and that is how I eventually got rid of most of them. Spent many an unpaid hour just biding my time knowing that on the slower days they would always be tempted; they were used to "knocking down" 300 per day( tax free, 1977 to 1986) and on the slow days when they were faced with the "Under-a-Buck" meaning less than earning $100 for that one shift, that temptation would rear its ugly head. Almost always does. Once we had the Security Managers( who were NOT employees of the MD Casinos of those days), the top brass were forced to remove the girls. At first they would make them waitress staff, but the Gaming Commission got stronger and stronger. Real jerks would "snail-mail" names, dates and times to which the top brass bristled, suspected, even questioned, but like J. Edgar Hoover, never DARED fire certain Managers because of the fear of them running to the IRS( Nixon/Ford's biggest 2 by 4!). We managers were ready for the Gaming Commission to buckle under the pressure from the Owners any day and was prepared to "walk" but that day never came. Being so close to Wash. D.C. probably helped but we were younger and did not make that connect at that time. D.C. was always breathing down our necks to justify THEIR jobs! Gov. Glendening with ONE stroke of the Governor's ink pen closed all the MD Casinos down May 24, 1997. Most got "busted" not paying Louie Goldsteins' ( Comptroller of MD in those days) State Taxes. Now the MD Casinos are back again, but no more mom-and pop operations; large conglomerates only. The MD taxes come off the TOP GROSS and if there are errors that is just too bad! Your Governments at work to ensure that you stay small, eliminates competition. Really bad in CA. The biggies have all the available Licenses locked up for another generation, via Moratoriums, etc. 1995 I started working in CA. The most selfish, self-important crybabies and wanna-be's I ever seen fill the Casinos up. MORE "juice jobbing, girlfriends/mistresses" and the ilk that made MD look like the JV teams. A BIG difference is that the CA patrons tend to have a LOT more money. In CA, I found that there were FEW life bannings for punching others, spitting on others, stealing, drug deal scorings, pimping, etc. The CA managers always say" We need their business". Back in MD we would kick them out and most of the time for LIFE and word got out, they behaved. NV? They used to be stricter too. I saw that coke-fiend Stu Ungar get thrown out of the Showboat just like you see on TV: right on his face-first. " You can't do this to me! I'm Stu Ungar and your Tourist beat me with two rag cards!". Some lady played two small cards and cracked Stu's pocket Aces. The lady made a lucky two pair. He went ballistic. He cursed the old lady into tears. Everyone there wanted to kick Ungar into the next century. We did not have cell phones in those days or else I would have taken that photo. But I have associates today that tell me that the current NV Management has "instructed" their Floor staff to be more "diplomatic". Money is King, so the bad behavior is getting tolerated everywhere. Glad I am out of that business. The NV cardrooms, poker mainly, have not been all that stable. Many a room closed like at Excalibur, Gold Coast, Treasure Island, and even Harrah's did in 1998, but they reopened during the 2002 - 2005 Boom because of the ESPN and four other TV channels showing the games. My niece used to work that the gift shop at Harrahs when they turned that old poker room into the gift shop and fired her when they re-opened the poker room a few years later. I am told that Treasure Island AGAIN closed their poker room. I was at the LV Hilton( now renamed Westgate) myself this past August and they told me that they were closing their poker room for football TV screens. I'll ask my other( Cinema) friend when he calls me this week. CA survived the non-smoking bans ONLY because the restaurants, all other public places adopted the same "blanket health" public policies, or else there would have been far more pushback against the CA State legislature than what there was at the time. CA put the "death sheds" in strategic places not too far away from the gaming so as not to miss too much action. Remember, money talks, bull walks.... An associate of mine was the Poker room manager at Chumash Casino in Santa Ynez, CA( north of Santa Barbara). One day the Indians came to him and told him that he had ONE YEAR to train "suzie Q" or whatever her name was, but she wanted off the Tribal lands and wanted to take her shot at a regular job. He trains her. They give him a decent severance package. He gets on some kind of "list" for Casino Management jobs. They called him five times per day. I know that this is true because they STILL call ME( who never opted for this list) even to this day. But the jobs are NOT CA, they are Michigan, Iowa, AZ, Riverboats, etc. My friend took a Riverboat job in Mississippi, then one day the boat got beached on a sandbar and the top brass had to blame/fire someone, so they fired my friend and put it in the newspapers, even though the ship crew was employed by tugboat companies and he had NO SAY in navagatable waters procedures! At my advice we got him the names of some savage New Orleans attorneys, but before the wagons got circled a mysterious "severance package" appeared in his mail and my friend was so satisfied he vowed to never work in that cutthroat business ever again. I can't recall exactly, but that Riverboat was seized by the Feds and have long been out of business. If you are a bad Manager in ANY business, the old saying goes" Your sins will find you out". There is no truer saying in life. Years ago there was a dealer that kept popping up here who kept telling ME about the Gaming business, he did this, he did that. Then he started railing against me about Comic Books too. He knew more than me AND others here, how little I knew about Comics. Yes I let this ride for the longest time. I rarely corrected him. I never see him here anymore, and he never gave me his name in case I got lucky and DID get my casino license. I liked to hire the "knows-more-than-the-people-who-lived-it". Why? So I can "school " them WHEN they fudge up. They always do. CAL who never smoked anything in his life...ever Edited November 18, 2017 by Calamerica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizards2 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Wall of text! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Marwood & I Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Just now, lizards2 said: Wall of text! Cal, who doesn't know how to post pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamerica Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Marwood & I said: Cal, who doesn't know how to post pictures ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFifthHorseman Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 34 minutes ago, Calamerica said: There was ONE complete non-smoking Casino: Tom's. Lasted a short time. No business. Gamblers smoke. Yes they do. And they drink too. Imagine making them go outside every hour for a smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamerica Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 1 minute ago, TheFifthHorseman said: Yes they do. And they drink too. Imagine making them go outside every hour for a smoke I was in Tom's a few times. VERY clean, VERY nice place! Good food too! Just no customers to speak of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
