A "collector" in a world of investors 4 4

[1950's war comics]

20 hours ago, KirbyJack said:

A fairly effective way to avoid all this money stuff is to wallow in the shallow end. 

I love my low grade readers!

Me too !!

actually a 6.0 is high grade for my collection....

i love solid looking mid grade VG's.... !!

[1950's war comics]

Also,,, i am one of those dying breed run collectors..... sometimes i wished that i wasn't but i am .....

[Shoomanfoo]

1 hour ago, 1950's war comics said:

Me too !!

actually a 6.0 is high grade for my collection....

i love solid looking mid grade VG's.... !!

Yup!

I'll pay a cool 50 bucks for a solid mid raw Doctor Strange 169 over an 500 buck high grade anyday!!

[paul747]

    The only thing I hate about slabs is you cant smell the comic ! Tee Dub and Martin Have great point's.  If you have been collecting for a while and have accumulated a decent collection and many of those books become valuable at what point do you become an investor/collector?  I have been collecting books since I was 12 years old I love everything about them ! I was fortunate to also inherit my uncles comic books when I was 17 years old,  many full runs of mostly silver age books in really decent shape. I have definitely sold some books to buy upgrades or keys of comics that ring home to me,  It used to be just about reading the stories and looking at the art and sharing the books and stories with friends (still do but with trades) At what point do you not protect and put a monetary value on 5 figure books that you once just viewed as a hobby?

 

  You have to talk value if you have a $50,000 book laying around that cost you nothing.  Do you sell them ? should you keep them? where do you keep them? It can be exciting,  you cant show them around because that would be stupid,  things have changed a lot in the last 5-10 years and value is definitely changed my mentality.  I come here because I am around like minded people that don't totally think I am nuts talking about funny books.  This hobby can be what it needs to be for anybody,  some people love flipping books,  some like reading books,  variant collectors,  investors,  rare book chasers,  run collectors,  nostalgic collectors and dealers.   It does not matter the reason, what matters is people are involved with comics,  not the digital ones,  but the ones that smell good.  I love picture frames,  I love 9.9's,  I love 20 cent covers,  I love Kamala Khan,  I like time payments,  I like the arguments,  I love old and new stories and I love money. 

[01TheDude]

When I come across a thread that get a little too concerned about values and less about the books themselves, I tend to gloss over those values comments more or less-- and look for the discussion to pick up on something that interests me. I rarely consider the value of the books I own but do understand that some of the ones I need to fill my runs have values at certain grades. Some are priced out of my realm of comfort and I've gone other routes to fill those gaps -- like reprints and TPB. I do try to find decent copies but what some think of as low grade are fine by me (not Fine the grade-- just fine as in "that works").

I don't think you need to go elsewhere for you comic book discussion fix-- this place has plenty to offer still imo. Just avoid the topics that you don't care about and don't feel bad if you have to put a few members on ignore if what they write consistently bothers you i.e. things you don't want to read.

Last point-- regarding feeling like you are getting run over when you post a book and others post something in higher grade or much higher value (IM 3 vs TOS 39): I like to think that those responses are just sharing the joy of the hobby. At some point, you have to realize others have better collections. Some of the guys here are the very top of the hobby. Some have a ton of ridiculously amazing books because it is their business to have those books and sell them. When the dealers start talking about valuations - that might not be a bad conversation to hear since they might give you some inside scoop as to what they pay to get those books they sell.

anyway-- I am happy to be a part of this place. I never know for sure what direction it will have me going from one visit to the next.

Edited November 18, 2017 by 01TheDude

[LDarkseid1]

I enjoy the value discussion and enjoy seeing people post their awesome books. It’s too bad the OP feels it’s all about one-upsmanship. I personally don’t see it that way, but to each their own.

[Jaylam]

A friend has two kids, one boy 9 years old and a girl 12 years old. One day their family was over we were discussing seeing the latest Marvel movies and I began talking to the kids about how when I was their age, I read and collected comic books and how amazing it is that all these super-heroes are now big hits at the box office. I asked them if they had any comics and to my surprise the boy expressed interest in war books and the girl to Archie. I had a few old copies that I gave them and the mom said to me a few weeks later that they loved them. So the next time I went to a convention, I scoured around and found some pretty nice Silver Age war and Archie comics along with a few Batman and Wonder Woman for cheap and gave to them.  About 2 weeks later, I received this really nice "thank you" card they made themselves, expressing how much they enjoyed the books. Now every time I go to a con, I grab up some more books that I can give them. There's plenty of material out there, even some Silver Age titles in decent condition can be had for reasonable prices. Some I even find in dollar bins.

 I guess what struck me about their interest, is the fact that they genuinely enjoy reading the books. Yes, they are aware that some books are incredibly valuable, but they don't care about that, they just like to have and read them. So through them, I am reminded of the innocence that made me enjoy reading and collecting comic books in the first place. I never gave a thought about value or speculation and market trends, I was just concerned about what was Spider-Man's next adventure or villain going to be.

So yes, some of us out here just like collecting for the sake of collecting. My current interest is in Capt. America/Iron Man Tales of Suspense. I never bought any as a kid, but I really like the art of Jack Kirby and Gene Colan in these books so I started picking up a few copies here and there and except for a few issues, most are reasonably priced, even in higher grades. Now a few years down the road, I've assembled a pretty nice set of books, mostly raw, with a few graded ones too in the 7.0 to 9.0 range.

[marvelmaniac]

19 hours ago, WoWitHurts said:

What do you use to insure?

https://collectinsure.com/?gclid=CJu3heLP8cUCFYuPHwod4kgAww

[Lucky Baru]

17 hours ago, 1950's war comics said:

Me too !!

actually a 6.0 is high grade for my collection....

i love solid looking mid grade VG's.... !!

I know some people would turn their nose's up at some of my keys.  My Daredevil #1 is a 0.5.  I have about 10 or 15 different keys that are out of my price level that I have 0.5's of in my collection.  When I find a better one I upgrade them.  Some books like Incredible Hulk #2 that's hard to do.  The investors have priced me out of their market.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Lucky Baru

[bronze johnny]

On 11/16/2017 at 2:41 PM, John Stark said:

I lurk on these boards several times a week, but haven't posted in years.  While there are some really compelling things that I like to see and read in this forum, I really hate the large proportion of the conversation that is about values and whether a movie release will result in a bump in prices.  And there is a certain degree of "one-upsmanship".  Whenever someone posts a comic they are particularly pleased with, it is just a matter of minutes before someone else is compelled to show off their "better" copy.  What if you were a beginning collector - happily posting the IronMan #3 that you found in a box at your parents house that you fondly remembered buying off the rack only to have it bumped to the next page within minutes because it became the stepping off point for people to show off their minty TOS #39's.  Shouldn't this forum be just as much about the guy with the $40 book that he would never sell as it is about the guy with the $20,000 book he bought last year for $15,000 and will sell next year for $20,000?

I started reading comics in the late 70's and collecting in the early 80's.  I was in awe when I came across some books with a 10-cent cover price and from about 1983 onward I only bought 10-centers and a few of the earliest Marvel 12-centers.  I found it a challenge to get all of the 10-cent Suicide Squad books in Brave and Bold.  Frankly, I think I appreciated them more when they were a bit of an obscurity than when they became a commodity after a movie title was announced (that has nearly nothing to do with the original series).  I love all of the development of Superman's universe that took place in the various Superman titles in the late 50's and early 60's.  Because some book or list identifies issue No xxx as a "key issue" it gets so much love and monetary valuation from the comics community while the issue just before and just after it are barely even desired - even though the stories and artwork in those books are just as good.

And condition...  I love a book I can pull out of its bag and read.  I love the sweet-acidic smell of decaying pulp. 

I grew up in the next town over from Boulder, Colorado and I would see Chuck Rozanski all of the time.  I bought a number of comics directly from him.  Like a lot of other people, Chuck told me "collect what you love and don't worry about the value."  Now it seems like so few people "collect" comics.  The view now is just like the stock market - buy low and sell high.  Buy all of the Katy Keene's now (on 2nd thought, only the "key" issues) before they announce a movie release!  Like Katy Keene?  Does it matter?

On the sales threads, you can regularly see things like B&B 28.  I still need a decent #33, but no one will ever post one for sale until Cave Carson starts "heating up."

I have been lucky.  I have some books that are purported to be quite valuable.  Part of me suspects, though, that once Baby Boomers start dying off and their kids don't know what to do with those boxes and boxes of dad's old comic books (and there is no room for them in their tiny houses), they will be a glut in the market and the value will fall through.  Has anyone ever heard of the  Tulip Collapse of 1637?  They were just flowers with no intrinsic value.   I for one, won't like my B&B #28 any less if/when its only valued at a few hundred dollars even though it might be in the $1,000's right now (especially since  I bought for a hundred dollars years ago).

Sorry to be a grumpy old man (is 47 old?).  My ranting only applies to a portion of the people on this board.  There are a ton of others who really seem to love their books regardless of what the rest of the world values them at.  "Silver" comes to mind - I love that guys drive to complete a series!

Are there any other collectors that are turned off by the "investor" point of view, or is it just me.

end of rant.

 

Great thread!

Consider how fortunate you are to have such insight since collecting comics is about what we learn and the experiences we have and share about a hobby and art form that some of us have grown up with. For collectors like myself, it's fascinating to study the history of the medium and see where it's been and how the comic book has evolved through the decades. Many of us are also fortunate to have first experienced buying comic books off the newsstand. The modern comic book that started during the Great Depression is a relatively young art form and some are still around to share the memories they had buying and reading comic books during a time when radio and motion pictures were for many "working class" kids the dominant mediums for entertainment and storytelling. There are some collectors who are also investors that have this understanding and can appreciate books in all grades and genres. Then there are the superficial investors you're referring to who couldn't tell you anything about the book they have in their possession. For them, comic books are like any other commodity. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me that there were a few investors buying as many high grade keys as possible just for the purpose of selling them to make money- also wouldn't surprise me if they had straw buyers involved to inflate the purchase price.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

Best,

john

 

[Krydel4]

This is an interesting thread and echoes many of the thoughts I've had. It was a bit of a culture shock for me after being out of collecting for 15 years and getting back into it via the older books. Finding these boards was definitely eye opening in terms  of being able to see were the collecting focus has shiftedin that time. The amount of chatter and threads about money, flipping and investment far outweighs the threads about story, history or art etc. in comparison. The book that got me back into collecting was Avengers 5 that I saw in a shop (first one I had been in after living abroad for 10+ years) that was in this weird looking plastic case with a number at the top. I asked how much it was and they told me and they said it was certified. I jokingly said was it certified as being a real comic book. They explained CGC and certifying grades to me. I was like okay I guess this is something new. I then asked if I bought it how do you open up the case to read it. I may as well have pulled out a gun and pointed it at the dealer from the look of horror I got from the suggestion of even doing that. He told me you don't open it otherwise it loses its value. I bought the book, found a screwdriver and youtube video and cracked it open. Best reading experience in a long time. 

[SC22]

2 hours ago, bronze johnny said:

 

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Edited November 18, 2017 by SC22

[SC22]

What evil people we are to keep our books in CGC holders....evil, evil and more evil. Bad collectors, bad collectors you should be ASHAMED!! And the war continues on between the PURE collector and the ones that dirty the PURITY of this hobby....us fake collectors no matter how much we love our books and this hobby!!

I guess some people will thank us 200-300 years (imagine in a 500 years or more we will be remembered as those that saved some copies for future generations) from now when the only books remaining or almost will be the ones that where protected by companies like CGC.

Now do 10 hail Marie's and all your collecting sins will be forgiven my son (but in some cases we may require a exorcist when the sin runs to deep) and don't forget to drop off a few dollars at the front door on your way out....we also like money to keep our buildings preserved you know none of this stuff comes cheap. Saving collectors souls cost money my son now go on and sin no more but if you do come back don't forget to bring a few more dollars so you can be saved again and again!!

Edited November 19, 2017 by SC22

[01TheDude]

200, 300, 500 years? Wow--- I would tend to think these books would be falling apart regardless of how much you spent trying to keep them preserved. This pulp paper as I understand it is not meant for the long haul.

I get that some like to collect them in the slab form- and that is great. I am a raw collector because I it suits what I like. Now when the guy mentions buying avengers #5 in a slab and immediately cracking it out-- I can think of better ways to read that book that would be much less expensive (Raw reader copy, reprint, TPBs, or online). Maybe not the same but the LCS was not incorrect in saying cracking the book out of the slab was sort like throwing away money-- mostly from the grading fees and holder associated with it.

In some case-- mostly GA books-- that is the only way to  find these comics so cracking them out is necessary if you want to read them (no reprints or TPBs available sometimes). Some crack them out because they want to--- and that is the beauty of this. It is perfectly acceptable to do as  it is your stuff, do what you want with it. 

The best part of that guys story is that it got him interested in comics again.

[SC22]

48 minutes ago, 01TheDude said:

200, 300, 500 years? Wow--- I would tend to think these books would be falling apart regardless of how much you spent trying to keep them preserved. This pulp paper as I understand it is not meant for the long haul.

I get that some like to collect them in the slab form- and that is great. I am a raw collector because I it suits what I like. Now when the guy mentions buying avengers #5 in a slab and immediately cracking it out-- I can think of better ways to read that book that would be much less expensive (Raw reader copy, reprint, TPBs, or online). Maybe not the same but the LCS was not incorrect in saying cracking the book out of the slab was sort like throwing away money-- mostly from the grading fees and holder associated with it.

In some case-- mostly GA books-- that is the only way to  find these comics so cracking them out is necessary if you want to read them (no reprints or TPBs available sometimes). Some crack them out because they want to--- and that is the beauty of this. It is perfectly acceptable to do as  it is your stuff, do what you want with it. 

The best part of that guys story is that it got him interested in comics again.

Once all of our comic books become dust then coin collecting will take over lollll!!

[BuscemasAvengers]

Discerning the many excellent posts in the thread has allowed me to think about my own approaches to the hobby over the years.  Many things in life rarely happen for one reason and one reason alone.  Even in my early days of collecting, when I would take my bike and ride about 30 minutes to the other side of town to visit an old school that had been converted into a book store (called the 'Odd Copy Book Shop'), and spend most of what little I had on silver and bronze age books, I did so because of many reasons: to read the stories, to collect the books I love, and to try to impress my older brother who introduced me to the hobby.  If I could just show him that I could locate and buy books that added to our collection, then the gap between big and little brother would be bridged a little more.  As we both moved into our late and early twenties, priorities changed, and the original collection was sold for cash.  When my own son became interested in the stories around the year 2002, it allowed me to resurrect the love I had of collecting for yet another reason.  Today, he is in university, and his priorities and interests have changed.  I've had the opportunity to buy many collections over the past 5 years.  I love heading down to the cave, spending hours going through the boxes, bringing back memories of the stories I read so much when I was younger.  I decide which books to keep, and which books to move to recoup some of my investment.  I'm close to retirement in my career profession, and I see myself dedicating at least as much (and perhaps even more) time to the hobby I've loved for over 40 years ...  

[alexgross.com]

On 11/16/2017 at 11:41 AM, 10¢ John (formerly Gopher John) said:

 

Are there any other collectors that are turned off by the "investor" point of view, or is it just me.

 

 

all commodities/ collectibles have both collectors and investors, and there's naturally alot of overlap. i have collected coins purely for the investment angle, really don't care about them for any other reason. i wanted to move into comics because i love them and have always loved them. i buy raw comics that i want to enjoy reading, and i buy graded, entombed key comics both to own them and for the investment value. i'm not sure why a pure collector would ever buy a slab, since it prevents reading the comic book. i remember when i got my first slab, how disappointing it was to realize i could never look at that book. but at the end of the day, i can buy any book raw if i want to read it. the keys are mostly all reprinted somewhere, so i can read those without having to get a raw copy, and be happy with my entombed books too as investments. i'm not turned off by investors in comics, because i think most of them, like me, also love comics first and foremost. 

[01TheDude]

you can take those books out of the slab -- they are only "entombed" if you let them be.

[marvelmaniac]

On 11/18/2017 at 11:39 AM, Lucky Baru said:

I know some people would turn their nose's up at some of my keys.  My Daredevil #1 is a 0.5.  I have about 10 or 15 different keys that are out of my price level that I have 0.5's of in my collection.  When I find a better one I upgrade them.  

 

We have a lot in common as far as comic book collecting other than I am not looking to upgrade since I still need books to complete some of my runs of Pre-Hero Marvel Horror (JIM and ST) and Atlas/Marvel Westerns. (Kid Colt and Rawhide Kid).

I am very proud of my low grade DD #1 as well as you should also be proud to own yours, some people do not own one in any grade.

I also have numerous low grade early Silver I purchased to complete my runs, higher grade would have been/still would be out of my price range and just having one in any grade and completed runs makes me happy.

Happy Collecting and Enjoy those Low Grade Readers!!!

 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by marvelmaniac

[Sweet Lou 14]

Great thread with some excellent points.

I've been aware of this board for many years but only started participating this year as I decided to put more time and money into my collection.  I would describe myself as a collector first and foremost, but also an investor as I've chosen to put together high-grade runs that I hope to leave to my kids someday (or if they want, sell off later in life so they can have the cash).  I suppose if I were more of a pure investor / speculator I would be buying only keys or wannabe keys, regardless of publisher or period (I focus on Silver and Bronze Age Marvel only), and I would be buying multiples of books I think make the best investments (I have never bought two copies of the same book unless I am upgrading, i.e. turning right around and selling the first copy I bought).

There's nothing right or wrong about my particular approach, or anyone else's.  And I agree that the investor interest is probably good news for the hobby.  All of us who truly love the books, the art, the creators, the characters, and the stories should consider ourselves lucky (and be thankful -- it's Thanksgiving after all) that there is enough broad mainstream interest in superheroes and other comic books that we've gotten to see so many of our favorites come to life on TV and in the movies.  I'm willing to sacrifice some purity and some exclusivity for the ability to proudly admit what a Marvel geek I am and actually get some decent interest (and a little freaked-out admiration) from my non-geek friends.