Sean Murphy selling new Batman White Knight art tomorrow. 0

[Panelfan1]

I love Sean Murphy.  Batman, like spider-man is a solid character to collect when it comes to comic art.  He is the most popular character for DC.  There will always be fans.  

That said - one can't predict what a future generation will consider important.  Speculating is ok - if that is your goal, but personally - I stopped speculating and started buying only what I love. 

[Hekla]

interesting reading this thread and listening to the latest Felix podcast discussion about Sean Murphy buying comic art for investment

[staffman]

I have such conflicting feelings on all of this.  On the one hand I commend Sean on getting top dollar for his interiors for a book that is coming out currently.  That is quite a feat that he pulled off.  However, I'm concerned that his prices are so high that he could potentially change the pricing market even more for original art out there.  Who's to say the next artist doing a good run on Batman doesn't take this kind of lead and starts moving that needle further north.  Prices always go up on pretty much everything as we all know, but to push that high that quickly instead of letting the market guide the pricing path just bothers me.  That's all speculation on my part.  I have no hard data to back that concern, so I could be completely off about that, but I can't shake that feeling that this doesn't have an upside for anyone outside of Sean and the fans who truly love this art and want to keep it.

[vodou]

1 hour ago, staffman said:

I have such conflicting feelings on all of this.  On the one hand I commend Sean on getting top dollar for his interiors for a book that is coming out currently.  That is quite a feat that he pulled off.  However, I'm concerned that his prices are so high that he could potentially change the pricing market even more for original art out there.  Who's to say the next artist doing a good run on Batman doesn't take this kind of lead and starts moving that needle further north.  Prices always go up on pretty much everything as we all know, but to push that high that quickly instead of letting the market guide the pricing path just bothers me.  That's all speculation on my part.  I have no hard data to back that concern, so I could be completely off about that, but I can't shake that feeling that this doesn't have an upside for anyone outside of Sean and the fans who truly love this art and want to keep it.

Even though they don't know it, the buyers always have the power. To walk away. If not from Sean's prices, the next guy's. Sometimes the market is slow to respond but it never fails to respond. BTC at $15k today. There's the other side of the mountain to think about too.

[PhilipB2k17]

8 hours ago, Matches_Malone said:

One is leader of the Dark Judges  an alternate dimension called  Deadworld,  and the other is the leader of the  Dark Knights from The Dark Multiverse.

No similarities whatsoever?  

 

 

At most, he may be a bit of a homage. But beyond that, the similarity is superficial. His origin book completely separates him.

Edited December 7, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[PhilipB2k17]

3 hours ago, Hekla said:

interesting reading this thread and listening to the latest Felix podcast discussion about Sean Murphy buying comic art for investment

Check out the podcast link I posted earlier too. It's an interview with Murphy, in which he basically says he's a salesman, and a hard negotiator. That he learned how to work angles when he was a kind from his parents. He even compared his personality to the characters from Wolf of Wall Street.

I have no complaints about his aggressive pricing. If people want to pay that, more power to them. I'm not going to, so as Vito Corloene says to Virgil Solozzo: "I wish you success...especially since your interests don't conflict with mine."

Edited December 7, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[Pete Marino]

14 minutes ago, vodou said:

Even though they don't know it, the buyers always have the power. To walk away. If not from Sean's prices, the next guy's. Sometimes the market is slow to respond but it never fails to respond. BTC at $15k today. There's the other side of the mountain to think about too.

I'm with this 100% as well.

It's his to price as he wishes.  And we (the collectors) have the right to walk away.

There are artists that have swaths of art sitting on their dealer's sites for years and years.  Because they have set their price and the market won't absorb it at the price they've set.  I see nothing wrong with this.

I also think there's a huge (maybe realistic) fear of artists these days that they don't want to be selling Uncanny X-Men covers for $225, when 25 years later they could garner $70k+.

But on the other side of the coin, for every winner like that there are 100's of pages you can point at that have not grown that exponentially.  People like to point at the winners because that's the popular / cool stuff.  But it's still a small % of the overall produced art.

[PhilipB2k17]

21 minutes ago, Pete Marino said:

I'm with this 100% as well.

It's his to price as he wishes.  And we (the collectors) have the right to walk away.

There are artists that have swaths of art sitting on their dealer's sites for years and years.  Because they have set their price and the market won't absorb it at the price they've set.  I see nothing wrong with this.

I also think there's a huge (maybe realistic) fear of artists these days that they don't want to be selling Uncanny X-Men covers for $225, when 25 years later they could garner $70k+.

But on the other side of the coin, for every winner like that there are 100's of pages you can point at that have not grown that exponentially.  People like to point at the winners because that's the popular / cool stuff.  But it's still a small % of the overall produced art.

Yep. I had one rep tell me that he couldn't negotiate on price because his artists was perfectly willing to keep the art if it didn't sell for what he was asking. Some artists are willing to deal, or authorize their reps to do that. Others don't.

[Greenlake]

Wait, he compared his personality to scam artists as if that's a good thing? If so, the timeline for this being funny has moved forward from a few years to right now.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Greenlake

[PhilipB2k17]

7 minutes ago, Greenlake said:

Wait, he compared his personality to scam artists as if that's a good thing? If so, the timeline for this being funny has moved forward from a few years to right now.

He said it wasn't a perfect comparison. But, listen to the podcast (skip ahead by about 15 minutes, though, to get to the interview).

It's episode 71. https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/inkpulp-audio/id586276073?mt=2&i=1000394276028

Edited December 7, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[Khazano]

46 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Check out the podcast link I posted earlier too. It's an interview with Murphy, in which he basically says he's a salesman, and a hard negotiator. That he larned how to work angles when he was a kind from his parents. he even compared his personality to the characters from Wolf of Wall Street.

I have no complaints about his aggressive pricing. If people want to pay that, more power to them. I'm not going to, so as Vito Corloene says to Virgil Solozzo: "I wish you success...especially since your interests don't conflict with mine."

Im in the same boat. Your art, price it however you want.  

That said... 

I dont know of artists whove done this, but I know of dealers fleecing noobs by out right lying about the collectability of an over priced piece.  I generally dont have sympathy for the uninformed. But. Just cause one is uninformed doesn't mean they should be lied too about the investment they're making. And when I hear an artist compare himself to the pump and dump masters on The Wolf of Wallstreet, I cant help but think  about that mentality being used to fleece uninformed collectors. (It should be noted, I did not hear the podcast, nor have I've never dealt Murphy, and Im not making a definitive statement about him personally.  Im just using him as an example since he's the subject of topic.  He may just play hard ball rather than being an actual wolf to his fans.)  

As much as I think Capullo's pricing is silly. He admits he's charging tomorrow's price today. He admits it's not actually worth the asking price but its precious to him, and if people want it for astronomical money who is he to say "No". Quesada did the same thing 15 years ago when he started selling art again on his forum. His  paraphrased words to his forum fans were "I dont want to sell this stuff. But if you guys wanna pay way more than it's worth, have at it." and a ton of 5-`10k covers went for sale and most sat there for years before being moved to Spencer's site where they still sat.  And most that were bought in that time were eventually resold at auction at some point for a small loss.  The point was, no was is being misled about the collectible for the sake of the sale. Over price it all you want. Just be honest about the fact that it's over priced.  (Side note. JQ sold one Thor cover for 2k during that time (The only one priced that cheap save.)  that has since been flipped and flipped again more than trippling it's value.... So...Yeah...) 

[PhilipB2k17]

10 minutes ago, Khazano said:

Im in the same boat. Your art, price it however you want.  

That said... 

I dont know of artists whove done this, but I know of dealers fleecing noobs by out right lying about the collectability of an over priced piece.  I generally dont have sympathy for the uninformed. But. Just cause one is uninformed doesn't mean they should be lied too about the investment they're making. And when I hear an artist compare himself to the pump and dump masters on The Wolf of Wallstreet, I cant help but think  about that mentality being used to fleece uninformed collectors. (It should be noted, I did not hear the podcast, nor have I've never dealt Murphy, and Im not making a definitive statement about him personally.  Im just using him as an example since he's the subject of topic.  He may just play hard ball rather than being an actual wolf to his fans.)  

 

Well, the part where he describes his negotiation with DC is pretty insane. He was all set to draw All-Star Batman, but pulled out because he wasn't getting anywhere near the page rate Capullo was getting. So, he told DC he was going off to do his own image book. (This pissed off Scott Snyder, incidentally). DC asked him to come back, and he told them he wanted the rights to Punk Rock Jesus back, a huge signing bonus and a big page rate. He also said he was the "next Frank Miller," and wanted to do his own "out of continuity" Batman book that would set them up like the Dark Knight did. He said DC spent the past 30 years living off of Dark Knight Returns, and they needed a new, fresh take.

They bought it, and BWK was born. Well, except the suits at Warners didn't want to give up the rights to Punk Rock Jesus.

So, there's that. It's like a monologue written by Martin Scorcese.

Edited December 7, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[Khazano]

3 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

 He also said he was the "next Frank Miller," and wanted to do his own "out of continuity" Batman book that would set them up like the Dark Knight did. He said DC spent the past 30 years living off of Dark Knight Returns, and they needed a new, fresh take.

 

Good for him. I didn't realize you referencing his negoations with WB. It sounded more like he took that approach with his fans. 

That said, this gave me a good laugh.  But since I havent read anything I cant completely judge.  Is this book that ground breaking to the point where it'll change the entire tone and direction of Batman for the next 30 years? 

[ESeffinga]

Murphy can and should get whatever he can for his work. I 100% support that for any artist. Being an artist is hard work, and most never make it.

That said, comparing oneself to Frank Miller (or any other comic art luminary for that matter) without having done anything Milleresque (i.e. completed genre/artform defining work) .... I don't have any respect for that. Let others toot your horn, or be the Beatles and THEN call yourself bigger than Jesus.

Not that Miller is Jesus, or the Beatles...

You get where I'm going with this.

[PhilipB2k17]

1 minute ago, ESeffinga said:

Murphy can and should get whatever he can for his work. I 100% support that for any artist. Being an artist is hard work, and most never make it.

That said, comparing oneself to Frank Miller (or any other comic art luminary for that matter) without having done anything Milleresque (i.e. completed genre/artform defining work) .... I don't have any respect for that. Let others toot your horn, or be the Beatles and THEN call yourself bigger than Jesus.

Not that Miller is Jesus, or the Beatles...

You get where I'm going with this.

Again, listen to the podcast. It's pretty fascinating.

[PhilipB2k17]

6 minutes ago, Khazano said:

Good for him. I didn't realize you referencing his negoations with WB. It sounded more like he took that approach with his fans. 

That said, this gave me a good laugh.  But since I havent read anything I cant completely judge.  Is this book that ground breaking to the point where it'll change the entire tone and direction of Batman for the next 30 years? 

I think the art is pretty great, even if it's not groundbreaking. The story is OK. There are some clever things in it. But, It's not really any better than what Snyder and Capullo have been doing, which is pretty good. I do wonder where he got the idea for Crazy Harley (SPOILER ALERT) adopting the Joker's persona. .

Sounds like something I posted here about a year ago.

Edited December 7, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[Khazano]

13 minutes ago, ESeffinga said:

Murphy can and should get whatever he can for his work. I 100% support that for any artist. Being an artist is hard work, and most never make it.

That said, comparing oneself to Frank Miller (or any other comic art luminary for that matter) without having done anything Milleresque (i.e. completed genre/artform defining work) .... I don't have any respect for that. Let others toot your horn, or be the Beatles and THEN call yourself bigger than Jesus.

Not that Miller is Jesus, or the Beatles...

You get where I'm going with this.

I actually dont think theres anything wrong with using bravado in negotiations so long as the gambit pays off. Which is what that statement was, and it sounds like it did... It's just the fact that the suits at WB actually bought that line that astounds me. But they also might be numbers guys vs comics guys who have no real idea what influence Miller had aside from a graph that shows that the value of Miller's work on Batman. 

 

7 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I think the art is pretty great, if not groundbreaking. The story is OK. There are some clever things in it. But, It's not really any better than what Snyder and Capullo have been doing, which is pretty good.

Yeah. That's kinda what I thought.  

Edited December 7, 2017 by Khazano

[SquareChaos]

Good for Sean negotiating tough with DC. I think he's a talented artist, but I'd like to know what exactly he means about being the 'next Frank Miller' - I don't think so. It is good to have some healthy confidence in his own abilities. I'll listen to the podcast over the weekend most likely.

[eewwnuk]

Imo if u had tom king writing the book with the art that is being done you would have a very special series.   For now its a series with very pretty art but soso story.

 

On the general batman art market, id say that there has been a marked increase in prices from almost anyone that has drawn a modern batman book.   Apparently all these artists think that bat art collectors all all bruce waynes..  

[SquareChaos]

3 minutes ago, eewwnuk said:

Imo if u had tom king writing the book with the art that is being done you would have a very special series.   For now its a series with very pretty art but soso story.

 

On the general batman art market, id say that there has been a marked increase in prices from almost anyone that has drawn a modern batman book.   Apparently all these artists think that bat art collectors all all bruce waynes..  

They just need a few of them to be heirs to the Wayne fortune, and so far they've found them - no reason to change it up when people are buying. I don't blame them, but at the levels I play this game at, I'll never own a piece of their Batman art.