Unprofessional Commission Conduct 0

[Rick2you2]

Are there standards which commissioned artists are expected to follow? And if not, why the hell not?

On a recent thread I started, I noticed how a number of people complained how they would commission an artist but could end up waiting months and months to get anything. Off the boards, I heard one person complaining how a commission was paid years in advance, and still nothing. In my view, that's unprofessional. Artists are business people, not just artists. They are expected to meet production schedules; they understand the concept of deadlines. Now I don't mind if a commission runs a little late, or if an artist has good reasons for a major delay, but at the very least, the artist owes it to the buyer to reach him and explain the reasons for delay. And, if the delay is too long, to offer back the deposit at the buyer's option. By the way, I have not had this problem. 

If there aren't generally accepted standards, there should be.  In addition to time, they should include a fair amount for a deposit (so an artist like Tom Mandrake doesn't get stuck with a commission combining a scene of Jonah Hex and the Question) and sticking to agreed sizes and methods (pencil and ink vs. magic marker, for example). 

Any thoughts, or horror stories, on the subject which deserve discussion? If the results are good, maybe we could write something up.

By the way, bad business behavior by dealers and auction houses may be for a different day (like dealers who leave up OA which has already been sold).

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by Rick2you2
Clarification

[vodou]

49 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

...bad business behavior by dealers and auction houses may be for a different day...

Suggestion: update your thread title to something less all-encompassing then.

[Rick2you2]

11 minutes ago, vodou said:

Suggestion: update your thread title to something less all-encompassing then.

Fair enough. Done.

[artdisease]

I paid for a commission in cash at a show four years ago and am still waiting.  Now, I don't mind the waiting because he happens to be my favorite artist and I know it's going to be amazing. What does bother me is he doesn't do the commissions in the order they were received so I have to see all these other amazing pieces that came in after mine while I sit around like an a-hole.  I've sent numerous emails (like two or three a year) and it's always the same "I should have that done in a couple months."  He's notoriously slow in his professional work and I know that comes first, but it really does get frustrating. 

[sirwesker]

I have commissioned many artists and have only ever had one or two problems, both of which were relatively minor problems. But heres my two cents anyways:

Being able to draw and create art is a skill that, for the most part, you can hone without being a business owner. Because of this, many artists will develop this ability to create something of value without knowing how to run a business or market themselves properly. This can lead to all sorts of problems because, quite frankly, many people aren't cut out to run their own business. 

[aokartman]

I only had one commission done.  It was Joe Rubenstein when he solicited the community of collectors quite a few years ago.  It was $75.  I asked for a head and shoulders 3/4 pose BATMAN piece.  It was a little long in coming (2-3 months), but now I see that is normal.  I was satisfied, and that piece has been handed down to my son.  Sorry, I don't have a picture of it.

Collectors and artists sometimes share similar temperaments.  And, sometimes they don't.  It's not fair to generalize.  If the collector can't risk losing the deposit/fee for the work, then ask if payment can be made upon completion.  There are also third-parties who can hold payment until completion. 

Protections for the artist include limiting the scope and detail of the work, and an irreversible commitment from the buyer.

So, there are lots of ways to minimize bad outcomes.  It should happen before the work begins, and is the responsibility of both parties.

Shaming afterwards does not seem to improve the experience, in my observation.

Trust, and verify.

  David

[The Voord]

12 minutes ago, Reader said:

I will probably never commission another artist. I’ve been very unlucky in that regard. Going on five years now and $4000 paid up front. My fault of course. As soon as I get it, (IF, I ever get it) I’m selling it and most likely at a loss).  

Yeah, that's the problem with these commissions that are years in the making . . . the painful experience is likely to negate any appreciation for the final product.

[Sooners151]

2 hours ago, artdisease said:

What does bother me is he doesn't do the commissions in the order they were received so I have to see all these other amazing pieces that came in after mine while I sit around like an a-hole.  

That I can relate.  I follow an artist on instagram and have a commission I'm waiting on.  Original estimate was 8 weeks max, but now it's been 4 month.  He has done a lot of other work including numerous person sketches and even the one a day inktober event.  Yet I can't even get an update, except the first one three months ago.  I just don't get it.  The guy even picked the subject out of three choices and he was excited to do it.

[comix4fun]

Over the last 12-15 years I've commissioned well over 200 pieces by at least 100 different artists and I've have some of the very best experiences and some of the worst possible.

I've had absolute rock stars & legends in the art world complete cover quality commissions for me in 2-3 weeks. I've had one of the best inkers in the business, Kevin Nowlan, complete an inking commission on a cover quality piece in less than 24 hours.....I've also had an artist disappear with my money for over 11 years (and counting). The lessons offered by these experiences haven't been lost on me. 

I've come up with a few simple rules for commissioning work with artists that can only help the commissioner's overall success and satisfaction rate:

1) Never, ever, pay an artist 100% of the money upfront. If there's a intermediary, such as an artist's rep, it's possible to negotiate the funds being held until work is completed with rights to refund for missing the promised date. A deposit or progress payments may work...such as 20% down, another 30-50% upon seeing a prelim that everyone approves of, and the balance upon completion. Removing the monetary incentive to complete work on time and in a professional manner is a recipe for disaster. Whether it's an artist, a plumber, electrician, or any other contract worker it's best to keep expectations and incentives in place for all parties. 

2) Have clear parameters for timing, price, and expectations on both sides, in writing if possible. If you want the piece in 2 weeks and the artist can't deliver for 2 months...well that's a problem for everyone. Lay it out plainly, don't tip toe around each other. Be straight up about what you want and when and what you want included or excluded. 

3) Get to know the artist you're commissioning and give them as much or as little direction as they require to complete the task. Some artists work well with detailed, line for line, direction while others want none at all. Don't try to break a wild horse, you're end up with saddle sores. 

4) Never, ever, pay an artist 100% of the money up front. Did I mention that? Yes, I did...it's that important.

[The Voord]

20 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

 

Never, ever, pay an artist 100% of the money up front. Did I mention that? Yes, I did...it's that important.

This.

[alxjhnsn]

You might also consider the escrow service offered by Not So Nice Art.

[comix4fun]

2 minutes ago, alxjhnsn said:

You might also consider the escrow service offered by Not So Nice Art.

That's actually what I was thinking of in my first point, forgot to post a link. It's a valuable service.

 

[vodou]

This hobby, commissions specifically, is in massive need of a model contract written intentionally to the mutual benefit and protection of all parties. Something with some stated penalties at pain points too ("deadline is 90 days, each 30 days after is 1/3 refund of original price" etc). So many lawyers around here...it's amazing one hasn't bubbled to the fore or at least been offered for a small use fee. This, not such a big thing for $100 sketch covers, but with the proliferation of 4 and (gah!) 5 figure commission rates now...should be mandatory use for anybody that walks around calling themselves an adult (legally able to form a contract).

[eewwnuk]

Stay within your paypal window and dont be afraid to exercise your rights for a refund.  Once u get past a 6 month wait, chances are u will not have a positive experience.

[Matches_Malone]

2 hours ago, alxjhnsn said:

You might also consider the escrow service offered by Not So Nice Art.

 

2 hours ago, comix4fun said:

That's actually what I was thinking of in my first point, forgot to post a link. It's a valuable service.

 

 

Something like this could be useful as well 

 

[vodou]

20 minutes ago, Bill C said:

What might be a problem here is that the art is subjective to a point. It's not as cut and dry (or maybe tangible is the better description?) as "Here is X dollars, I need this object removed from my property". In that case, it's pretty obvious the work would be completed and there are fewer intangibles. With art, if you penalize an artist (who, dare I say, may lean towards being emotional and a bad business person), what are the odds you're going to get their best work if they're getting penalized? Even if they know that's the deal going in. And ultimately, we want a nice piece of art representative of the skill level of the artist. Who cares if we get a commission from a top artist in a rapid turnaround, if that specific piece of art isn't that good. You'll have it fast but it won't likely scratch the itch. That said, there should be some sort of penalty/protection (likely the artist expecting the paypal funds to be transferred back to the commissioner by a certain date if certain terms aren't met)

But I absolutely agree with you that some form of basic contract template is a great idea. Even if people use it as a checklist of things to review with the artist via email (written proof) prior to committing. For example, some people may never think to cover protection of art in shipping prior to a deal. What good is an A+ piece of art if it arrives destroyed due to incompetent packing? (I've actually had artists pack so bad that they destroyed their art in the packing process- before the shipping company even got their hands on it)

The subjective aspects, which are many by definition in a custom commission situation, could be identified in a free-form text area...I'm more referring to the boilerplate stuff, the stuff that all of the hobby (of commissioners) expects. If there was something resembling a model/standard form and the usage was wide, then artists would have a pretty good idea of what "we" expect, not just any ol' individual (that can be pushed back/around in private communications). Further...if things do go south (and they always will for a certain % of these things), then the uniformity of the boilerplate makes it very easy to let others know and let aritsts know that it's just that easy for "us" to tell each other too. Artists may not all be very good small business owners but they aren't dumb either and will understand that a checklist of five standard bullets where two aren't met is a very easy thing to publicize, burn their rep, and be unassailable legally (libel suit). The key though is a model doc that covers most/all the boilerplate stuff and leaves enough flexibility for the custom stuff, in such a way that there is little/no confusion on the part of anybody and provides incentives/penalties (maybe?) for over/under-performance. Imagine the opposite of "late = 33% refund" being "early = 33% 'bonus'"! Art, in this case, is no different than hiring a guy to do your driveway...fast but not level isn't better there either!

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

This hobby, commissions specifically, is in massive need of a model contract written intentionally to the mutual benefit and protection of all parties. Something with some stated penalties at pain points too ("deadline is 90 days, each 30 days after is 1/3 refund of original price" etc). So many lawyers around here...it's amazing one hasn't bubbled to the fore or at least been offered for a small use fee. This, not such a big thing for $100 sketch covers, but with the proliferation of 4 and (gah!) 5 figure commission rates now...should be mandatory use for anybody that walks around calling themselves an adult (legally able to form a contract).

Before you have an agreement, it's a good idea to figure out if there are standards which people are expected to follow.  From what I'm seeing so far, there don't seem to be any.

I actually do write contracts and I would do one for free if need be (I'm a construction lawyer, and I work with lots of commercial contracts). A one page memo with basic understandings is really more important than the legal stuff unless you are doing a really, really big commission.

But what is more important is to first decide on reasonable conduct for all parties to follow. Also, don't forget that artists have their complaints, too.  If artists think they aren't being treated fairly, they won't sign on to what customers think is reasonable conduct. Then, they certainly won't sign onto a contract.

 

[Rick2you2]

50 minutes ago, Matches_Malone said:

 

 

Something like this could be useful as well 

 

I looked at the escrow agreement, and it's a nice little job. The terms of an initial 60 days, plus 60 and an additional 60 seem reasonable. 

By the way, I have found one technique which almost always guarantees a quicker turn-around: a bonus.

For example, agree to pay an artist $500 to do a commission, but promise him an extra $75 if it is done within, say 30 days and is to your reasonable satisfaction. In that case, it's more likely to get prioritized. If it is not to your reasonable satisfaction, you get to return it with specific complaints. If he then fixes them in, say, 2 weeks, he still gets the bonus (which he earned, so pay it).  He gets the incentive to be responsive, and you get better work.

[vodou]

Rick2you2 there really aren't any standard expectations on either side. Everything is worked out custom every time and that's where you get so much of the slippage. Whatever isn't clear cut (due to design or fawning respect) can/will be abused as "professional" deadlines come to the fore or come unexpectedly. And sometimes some commissions...just are not fun. I used to take commissions for an artist (I was his rep, if you will) and I've got to tell you...never ever ever again. Talk about being caught in the middle! But you are right, the artists have their own complaints to and they should voice them in response to a model presentation that can include cross-outs and other by-hand modifications. Big deal. It's not as if we aren't all used to negotiating, as hobbyists, all the time anyway. We're all mostly reasonable people too that want to get a successful commission in the end, not present a document that guarantees failure (or rejection) by the other party!

 

Talk is all we've been doing here, and it's cheap. Instead here's some obvious boilerplate bullets:

• artist
• character/s
• interaction
• medium
• support
• "live" area size, support size
• price (fixed or schedule, x per character, etc)
• payment schedule
• deliverable deadline/s

[Rick2you2]

7 hours ago, artdisease said:

I paid for a commission in cash at a show four years ago and am still waiting.  Now, I don't mind the waiting because he happens to be my favorite artist and I know it's going to be amazing. What does bother me is he doesn't do the commissions in the order they were received so I have to see all these other amazing pieces that came in after mine while I sit around like an a-hole. 

Offer him an additional chunk of change payable in "X" days if he re-prioritizes. I know you think that's paying him for bad behavior, which it is, but honestly, I suspect that money is long gone and he has no incentive now to do anything.  Otherwise, I doubt you will ever see it. By the way, a common statute of limitations for breach of contract is 6 years (it depends on the state and the subject matter). Be careful.