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Tonfulle-84 Stan Lee forgeries on eBay
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369 posts in this topic

Just feel lucky that the guy is not smart enough to know how to really make this work. If they were doing fake Jack Kirby signatures inside the cover on the splash pages of JK related books, they might even have bidding wars going on for their goods-- provided they did a better job with the forgery. The grade/desirability of the book would not be a factor though I guess you could say that for Stan books too-- but I haven't seen anyone try this angle yet.

and while they were at it-- why not try to push some fake Steve Ditko ones out there?

Edited by 01TheDude
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On 1/6/2018 at 7:34 AM, James J Johnson said:

He doesn't have to defend anything here or on eBay. How could he defend them anyway? They're all $25 garbage. Defaced bargain box trash. eBay has no interest in his business model. Where he may have to eventually wind up defending himself is in civil and/or criminal court. I had a conversation with two reps at Stan Lee's marketing/booking agency, bringing their attention to his 50 "Sold Listings" of the past 2 weeks and beyond (I've been keeping track). Where eBay has no interest in sellers moving total garbage and obvious forgeries like these, Stan's people most certainly do. The two people I spoke to were surprised that even twice reported to eBay, eBay's agents given a tutorial by me on Stan Lee's signature through the years with reference listings as examples for genuine Stan autographs, eBay turned a blind eye to what they also noted as blatant forgeries as far as shutting it down.

Could eBay be sued for facilitating the sales of such forgeries?

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2 hours ago, 01TheDude said:

Just feel lucky that the guy is not smart enough to know how to really make this work. If they were doing fake Jack Kirby signatures inside the cover on the splash pages of JK related books, they might even have bidding wars going on for their goods-- provided they did a better job with the forgery. The grade/desirability of the book would not be a factor though I guess you could say that for Stan books too-- but I haven't seen anyone try this angle yet.

and while they were at it-- why not try to push some fake Steve Ditko ones out there?

Maybe they don't want to put too much of a spotlight on themselves by making their scam too obvious with Ditkos

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3 hours ago, 01TheDude said:

Just feel lucky that the guy is not smart enough to know how to really make this work. If they were doing fake Jack Kirby signatures inside the cover on the splash pages of JK related books, they might even have bidding wars going on for their goods-- provided they did a better job with the forgery. The grade/desirability of the book would not be a factor though I guess you could say that for Stan books too-- but I haven't seen anyone try this angle yet.

and while they were at it-- why not try to push some fake Steve Ditko ones out there?

But he is making it work. On a small-time scale. What's one more Stan Lee? How many Stan Lee signed items exist? Is there a way to estimate? He's flying under the radar with most of the hobby. Two, three, four here and there and netting about $600 per week, every week. Let's not forget, his overhead is a 50 cent comic and 2 cents worth of ink from a reusable $2 Sharpie. It's all pure profit. Can't beat that type of margin, right? And he keeps going, which will be his downfall, even though staying small because some stars take exception to forgers of their brand and go after them, Stan's company being one of them, and they've been duly notified.

If he starts knocklng out Ditkos like he is Lees, at maybe $100 to $500 per pop, his career as a forger will come to a screeching halt faster than you can say Steve Ditko, because those forgeries, everybody who knows how ultra-rare they are will notice, including Ditko, who will undoubtedly get wind of it sooner than later.

Lee's people know. Tick tock. Just a matter of time before he hears from them or the authorities that they alert come knocking. Three to five Lee autos, one worse than the next listed almost every day? Selling for an average of $25? That's just asking for trouble. This guy's cruisin' from a brusin'. :makepoint:

 

Edited by James J Johnson
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my response was more or less tongue in cheek ("hey criminal-- you're doing it wrong"). For those of us who don't care about Stan Lee autographs (or autographs in general)-- this whole topic is kind of silly.

If you have your heart set on getting a rare lol Stan Lee autograph, you get what you pay for. Catch the guy or don't -- he isn't impacting my comic collecting experience. Let Stan and his millions protect his signature -- if even he cares to bother.

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On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 3:54 PM, MGsimba77 said:

Could eBay be sued for facilitating the sales of such forgeries?

No MGsimba77 they can not be sued, they protect themselves all the way. E bay is only just one site where this fake BS is going on! There all kinds of different websites you can purchase comics and other signed memorabilia. As I explained to Johnson earlier, All he's doing is wasting his time contacting these different people: like Stan Lee's company, They don't really care, they don't have time for that kind of worry. I told Johnson the other day, 4 to 5 years ago, You could get a Stan Lee autograph for $30.00. 

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On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 5:39 PM, 01TheDude said:

my response was more or less tongue in cheek ("hey criminal-- you're doing it wrong"). For those of us who don't care about Stan Lee autographs (or autographs in general)-- this whole topic is kind of silly.

If you have your heart set on getting a rare lol Stan Lee autograph, you get what you pay for. Catch the guy or don't -- he isn't impacting my comic collecting experience. Let Stan and his millions protect his signature -- if even he cares to bother.

Dude I totally agree with you! Stan's company doesn't care. E bay doesn't care! Their making money!!!!!!

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59 minutes ago, Vietnam67 said:

Dude I totally agree with you! Stan's company doesn't care. E bay doesn't care! Their making money!!!!!!

Ok forgive my cluelessness on the matter but how would Stan's company profit from this? I get eBay's financial interest to look away but why Stan's company? Does Stan get some commission from the phony sig sales?

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9 minutes ago, MGsimba77 said:

Ok forgive my cluelessness on the matter but how would Stan's company profit from this? I get eBay's financial interest to look away but why Stan's company? Does Stan get some commission from the phony sig sales?

I wouldn't think so! It's just time consuming, going through all the hassle and bs to try and stop someone from supposedly selling fakes sigs!

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1 hour ago, MGsimba77 said:

Ok forgive my cluelessness on the matter but how would Stan's company profit from this? I get eBay's financial interest to look away but why Stan's company? Does Stan get some commission from the phony sig sales?

I thought he meant in general -- their business makes money and is not impacted by this small time scam artist. They don't get more or a portion of the sales.

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7 hours ago, 01TheDude said:

I thought he meant in general -- their business makes money and is not impacted by this small time scam artist. They don't get more or a portion of the sales.

Stan's signatures are one of his products and part of his brand. Fakes are knockoffs. Same as if you were to start selling deeply discounted Rolex knockoffs identified as the real thing for a fraction of the price. The seller isn't only infringing on the copyright and trademark, he's breaking the law. While I'm not sure that selling knockoffs as the real thing is a felony, I am sure that forgery is. Stan's business won't be impacted by the 750 or so Lee forgeries per year this seller will be knocking out on ebay at his current pace, but nonetheless, he is committing a crime using Stan's brand to do it. When I spoke to his marketing agent, he took notes, spent about 15 minutes with me as I walked him through many of his fakes, and then asked me to please send him an email of my list that I already have compiled showing all of his forged Stan Lee items he's transacted on ebay over the past year, which I did and he acknowledged as received, with a follow up phone call.

My impression is that they are interested. The agent I spoke to appeared genuinely glad to received the info and enthusiastic about pursuing it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/INVADERS-1-NM-9-6-CLEAN-SIGNED-STAN-LEE-L-K-/132422925241?nma=true&si=rY364cGV%2BPf15p0gxdNKuT54w1I%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

$10 Lee:

 

Lee0118.jpg

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52 minutes ago, 01TheDude said:

I guess that is one angle to get some free stuff out of Stan-- not that this is your intent, but it might happen.

That possibility was never implied nor discussed with his agent. IMO, ownership of a star's ink is without meaning unless the actual event of meeting that person accompanies it. That's the primary component. That face to face. How much fun can it be owning an autograph if you didn't get the ink yourself, or as in the case of Tonfulle-84's forgeries, it's not even Stan's ink?

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39 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said:

those sigs are so bad that they turn a dollar box comic into a dime box comics .......

One buyer leaves neutral feedback because, "the VF comic was more like Fine". However, the fact that the signature is worthless doesn't appear to be of any issue. :bigsmile:

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