PhilipB2k17 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Define "high priced." More than $1000? 2000$ There are some modern pages sitting out there that I think are criminally undervalued (for various reasons), if you assume the two numbers above are "high." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panelfan1 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 13 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said: Define "high priced." More than $1000? 2000$ There are some modern pages sitting out there that I think are criminally undervalued (for various reasons), if you assume the two numbers above are "high." High - refers to multiples above fmv. While many would dispute auctions as representative of fmv - i think that averaged out auction prices represent fmv. So if you buy art from the artist at 2-3 times what it would sell for at auction - i think that makes it high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 On 1/1/2018 at 11:36 AM, eewwnuk said: Anyone that has drawn batman Bingo. The Batman premium is the driver right now. I know a lot of this discussion has been centered around Murphy, but for modern Batman, I believe we can really point to the Capullo $50K sale. All the artists have heard about it, and rightly or wrongly (wrongly, IMO), are pegging their own Batman art values to that. And that was happening before the cover even sold, just the public price tag was enough to cause a ratchet effect. Even with Murphy, the high prices are limited (for now, at least) to his Batman art. His other non-Batman art is priced much, much lower. You can argue the ethics of it, but for extracting as much as he can out of his fans, he has played his cards just right. What remains to be seen is if the short-term win is enough to outweigh any potential long-term repercussions. theflashunc, Stefanomjr and Twanj 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eewwnuk Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Yep, im envious of those that collect lessor characters than batman as those art prices remain reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkininkin Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Nexus said: Bingo. The Batman premium is the driver right now. I know a lot of this discussion has been centered around Murphy, but for modern Batman, I believe we can really point to the Capullo $50K sale. All the artists have heard about it, and rightly or wrongly (wrongly, IMO), are pegging their own Batman art values to that. And that was happening before the cover even sold, just the public price tag was enough to cause a ratchet effect. Even with Murphy, the high prices are limited (for now, at least) to his Batman art. His other non-Batman art is priced much, much lower. You can argue the ethics of it, but for extracting as much as he can out of his fans, he has played his cards just right. What remains to be seen is if the short-term win is enough to outweigh any potential long-term repercussions. Is there anything to argue ethically? I can see how his fans would feel disappointed to be priced out of pages from a brand new series, but I think as collectors we all are disappointed to be priced out of certain markets that we covet. And SGM has listed some of the Batman prelim stuff for hundreds, not thousands of dollars for the collector on a budget desiring a chance for a piece of the creative process. While I do think it's unknown if demand and prices remain sustainable in the future, I don't see any ethical dilemmas arising out of his Batman pricing. Stefanomjr and Twanj 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat34 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, stinkininkin said: Is there anything to argue ethically? I can see how his fans would feel disappointed to be priced out of pages from a brand new series, but I think as collectors we all are disappointed to be priced out of certain markets that we covet. And SGM has listed some of the Batman prelim stuff for hundreds, not thousands of dollars for the collector on a budget desiring a chance for a piece of the creative process. While I do think it's unknown if demand and prices remain sustainable in the future, I don't see any ethical dilemmas arising out of his Batman pricing. Totally agree...I don't see any ethics issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxjhnsn Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Add one more to the "no ethical issue that I can see" column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 hour ago, stinkininkin said: Is there anything to argue ethically? I can see how his fans would feel disappointed to be priced out of pages from a brand new series, but I think as collectors we all are disappointed to be priced out of certain markets that we covet. And SGM has listed some of the Batman prelim stuff for hundreds, not thousands of dollars for the collector on a budget desiring a chance for a piece of the creative process. While I do think it's unknown if demand and prices remain sustainable in the future, I don't see any ethical dilemmas arising out of his Batman pricing. Absolutely nothing wrong with a seller asking whatever he wants. Where SGM *might* have skirted the line was in hyping WHITE KNIGHT as the next DKR (with himself as the next Miller). If it wasn’t that explicit, it was at least implicit...and very calculated. That it looks to have worked, well, maybe buyers have themselves to blame, too. Certainly, in this hobby, hardly unusual behavior. I mentioned it here, as others had made that point previously. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamhlawson Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Somewhere, right now in America...some guy just spent $500 on a pair of 'Big Baller' Sneakers. You may charge what you wish for anything, especially if you create it. We don't have to buy at ANY price, I certainly would never as I deem it to be absurdity (in both sneakers and art). Salesmen sell, its what they do, questioning their methods only leads to more publicity. If seeing something just released at a LARGE price, it would have to be perfect for you and in that event, price nor common sense matter. IF it has a big tag, it needs to be skilled and styled not just one or the other in my eyes. I know when I saw the Bianchi variant to Defenders 2, I didn't care about anything except it being on my wall. So, to each his own, but I am certainly glad mine isn't SGM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkininkin Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 30 minutes ago, Nexus said: Absolutely nothing wrong with a seller asking whatever he wants. Where SGM *might* have skirted the line was in hyping WHITE KNIGHT as the next DKR (with himself as the next Miller). If it wasn’t that explicit, it was at least implicit...and very calculated. That it looks to have worked, well, maybe buyers have themselves to blame, too. Certainly, in this hobby, hardly unusual behavior. I mentioned it here, as others had made that point previously. YMMV. I see where you're coming from. The DKR comparison hype from SGM was indeed an eye opener to many. I know for a fact through conversation that it turned off some fans and art collectors in a big way. If, however, there were other collectors attracted to collecting the WN originals at "entry level" prices because they didn't want to miss out on a ground floor opportunity, well, that's a cynical approach to selling/collecting which SGM may have been tapping into (even if he believed his own hype), but probably not an unethical approach IMHO. Either way, as a collector, I'm only buying art I love and not art that someone convinces me is the next big thing (big price or no), but maybe that's just me. GotSuperPowers? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquareChaos Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Nexus said: Bingo. The Batman premium is the driver right now. I know a lot of this discussion has been centered around Murphy, but for modern Batman, I believe we can really point to the Capullo $50K sale. All the artists have heard about it, and rightly or wrongly (wrongly, IMO), are pegging their own Batman art values to that. And that was happening before the cover even sold, just the public price tag was enough to cause a ratchet effect. Even with Murphy, the high prices are limited (for now, at least) to his Batman art. His other non-Batman art is priced much, much lower. You can argue the ethics of it, but for extracting as much as he can out of his fans, he has played his cards just right. What remains to be seen is if the short-term win is enough to outweigh any potential long-term repercussions. Not that it took a genius to see it coming but as I said in the thread covering Capullo's cover sell: "I don't blame him, and I expect to see more of that type of behavior going forward. We're here talking about this big number sale on modern art, it is visible, other artists are going to be thinking 'what one artist can do, so can another'. It is the nature of the beast." 2 hours ago, stinkininkin said: Is there anything to argue ethically? I can see how his fans would feel disappointed to be priced out of pages from a brand new series, but I think as collectors we all are disappointed to be priced out of certain markets that we covet. And SGM has listed some of the Batman prelim stuff for hundreds, not thousands of dollars for the collector on a budget desiring a chance for a piece of the creative process. While I do think it's unknown if demand and prices remain sustainable in the future, I don't see any ethical dilemmas arising out of his Batman pricing. I agree with the rest - this isn't an ethical violation. He isn't selling bottled water in the path of a hurricane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaSealed Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I think new Batman art is still in constant demand just because he is one of the very few big 2 characters that still have a shred of continuity left to the story, and has had consistent talent dedicated to his books. What is the last highly desirable run of Spidey OA? The big 2 have just destroyed so many of their characters so few collectors care to collect new art. They would rather go with the vintage art/stories that mattered. Big name artists can pull good prices with a wide variety of subjects, but most artists can achieve decent prices/demand if they can just get a gig on Batman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wurstisart Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Someone mentioned that we currently see everything with Batman in the title being prized at a premium. OK, but my question is, usually this comes and goes. We have seen it with everything that has spider-man in the title as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 13 hours ago, eewwnuk said: Yep, im envious of those that collect lessor characters than batman as those art prices remain reasonable. Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panelfan1 Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 Would others agree there is a premium on spiderman too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flambit Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) To chime in on Alex Ross: I won his ABC Best Comics cover on clink a year or two back, got it for about 5k and change. I flipped it over when it arrived, and someone had written 9500 in pencil on back. Edited January 4, 2018 by Flambit missed a word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eewwnuk Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Panelfan1 said: Would others agree there is a premium on spiderman too? who is the current IT spidey artist? Stegman? if yes, then seems like you can get your pick of a ton of art at reasonable prices. nothing near what finch, sgm, capullo, etc are asking for Batman. http://cadencecomicart.com/artist.php?artist=32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malvin Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Panelfan1 said: Would others agree there is a premium on spiderman too? I thought the discussion on Batman was an "unreasonable" premium. More popular characters will also be more expensive than less popular characters. So Spiderman and Batman art is generally more expensive than Wonder Man or The Question art (all things being equal, i.e. same artist, both are covers etc). But the thread was talking about Batman as being super high due to what Capullo accomplish and what SGM is doing. Malvin Panelfan1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Flambit said: To chime in on Alex Ross: I won his ABC Best Comics cover on clink a year or two back, got it for about 5k and change. I flipped it over when it arrived, and someone had written 9500 in pencil on back. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnkurJ Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, stinkininkin said: I see where you're coming from. The DKR comparison hype from SGM was indeed an eye opener to many. I know for a fact through conversation that it turned off some fans and art collectors in a big way. If, however, there were other collectors attracted to collecting the WN originals at "entry level" prices because they didn't want to miss out on a ground floor opportunity, well, that's a cynical approach to selling/collecting which SGM may have been tapping into (even if he believed his own hype), but probably not an unethical approach IMHO. Either way, as a collector, I'm only buying art I love and not art that someone convinces me is the next big thing (big price or no), but maybe that's just me. Great point in buying what you love Scott. This is the same philosophy I follow. The vast majority I have done this, the art has appreciated nicely even though that was not my primary aim. I purchased two Alex Ross paintings in 2003 from Sal. One very large one and one small one. I regrettably sold the large one to pay for something else, but the prices were negotiable then. I am sure there is some wiggle room today as well. Edited January 5, 2018 by AnkurJ John E. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
