Panelfan1 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) The Sean Murphy thread got me to this thread. He is not the only guy with high prices for new stuff. Alex Ross and J scott Campbell charge more than 20k for new covers. Feel free to add aditional names to this list. A couple of nice ones from ross just showed up on CAF. I saw Campbell had new pieces at 17-20k at SDCC. So I looked up sales on HA. And none of the modern stuff goes for anywhere near these #s. Wondering your opinions on the matter - especially if you picked up anything or have considered it. Personally I like both artists - but as a guy who cant afford everything - I like to think that when I buy art, I am not throwing away my money. If I buy at or near FMV, I hope to someday be able to get the money out - at or close to what I paid (assuming it doesn't go up.) On the other hand if I am paying 2-3x fmv , the chances of financial recovery in the future seem less certain. Just to be clear - I am not buying to speculate- but we cant take the stuff with us when we go - so every piece will have to be sold to another fan to enjoy at some point down the line. Anyway - would love to hear your opinions on Ross, Campbell or any other such stuff. Is it fairly priced? Is there an offline resale market for this stuff that you lnow about and can share knowledge on? Edited January 1, 2018 by Panelfan1 exitmusicblue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 First, I don't think you should buy anything with the expectation that it is an investment. Look at the art as something you like, or not, and see if you are comfortable with the price. Second, I don't think you should assume you will even get "market value" if you sell it. If you were to sell to a dealer, the dealer won't pay anything close (just some relatively low percentage). If you sell at auction, keep in mind this is a relatively small market. That makes actual sales prices subject to a lot of variation--particularly if you aren't trying to move a "classic." On one day, 2 bidders may "go at it." On another day, nope. So who is to say what the market price really is? More broadly, I don't think those modern pieces will have much of a long term value horizon. They are not examples of actual published art, which reduces buyer interest. And, what's hot now is not likely to be hot later. Going even further, and this comment is not well received, I don't think OA in general has a long term value horizon (say, 20 years). But that's for another day. So, no, I wouldn't spend the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Well, I like Alex Ross and I follow his market because I hope to snatch up a painted page for under market value on a mis-priced BIN one day. Yeah, the stuff on his site is crazy priced and most of that inventory doesn't seem to move. Every once in a while on CAF I'll bump into those 20K pieces; so like those SGM pieces, someone is buying, but not everyone. Alex Ross, I imagine, has been making a good living as a comic artist for a good 25 years so selling one 5-figure a piece a year is probably icing on a cake to his otherwise good "salary." Why sell great art for cheap? I don't know of any other "offline retail site" that sells Alex Ross art, other than pencil prelims and interior pages that pop up on auction sites. I have pointed out that Alex Ross' stuff doesn't perform at auction as well as sellers would like. That "Marvels" Human Torch page sold for under 8K when the original seller wanted 15K. An ASM cover with a huge Aunt May in the foreground retailed for about 10K, then sold on HA for about 7K. IIRC, that Kingdom Come "Special" that Ricky Bobby put up on Clink didn't meet reserve. I've also seen many painted interior pages be put up on eBay with starting bids at around 7K that don't receive a single bid. I don't know what other conclusion to draw from this other than the market has cooled. Oddly, I think the demand is there, but even if a fan like me could afford 7K on art, that's a lot money for something that isn't even the best page in the book. That image of Green Goblin that you posted is great. I bet that if I held that in my hand I would say, "Now I understand the price tag." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Browning Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 My problem with modern art is that the artists of today really feel like rock stars and price their originals accordingly. As for paintings, I find the market is very soft when trying to resell, so, in the case of Alex Ross, if I buy a painting for $20,000, then the best I would hope to get in return is $10,000 if I needed to sell (that may be an extreme markdown, but to sell quickly, I think that's how it'd have to go). As for the good girl art of Campbell, while I love it, I don't think it would be very easy to move at his asking price should I need to. I don't want to take a several-thousand-dollar loss on a piece if I have to sell it, so I stay away from both the Campbell and Ross new pieces until I can find an affordable one on the secondary market. But, I will say that it isn't those two artists, alone, who are pricing me out of buying any new art. A lot of current artists have priced their art to keep rather than to sell, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panelfan1 Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 59 minutes ago, Michael Browning said: But, I will say that it isn't those two artists, alone, who are pricing me out of buying any new art. A lot of current artists have priced their art to keep rather than to sell, in my opinion. As a way to broaden the discussion - what artists come to mind for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panelfan1 Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jay Olie Espy said: I don't know of any other "offline retail site" that sells Alex Ross art By offline - what I really meant was private deals you may have heard about. No names needed - just ancedotes. Edited January 1, 2018 by Panelfan1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eewwnuk Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 11 minutes ago, Panelfan1 said: As a way to broaden the discussion - what artists come to mind for you? Anyone that has drawn batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Browning Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 36 minutes ago, Panelfan1 said: As a way to broaden the discussion - what artists come to mind for you? Wow, any of the modern artists. I can remember when the Jim Lee art for Batman and Superman was selling for thousands a page and then people who bought had a hard time selling for what they paid and many took a loss. Ever try to buy any Greg Capullo art from Batman? I think you can look at just about any modern comic artist and see how high the prices are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Panelfan1 said: By offline - what I really meant was private deals you may have heard about. No names needed - just ancedotes. I'm not privy to any private deals. I will say that I acquired this Kingdom Come pencil prelim in a private deal back in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theflashunc Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Doesn't bother me all that much. If folks want to pay what the artist thinks the market will bear, that's their prerogative. Better that than the artist not seeing the appropriate compensation for their work, even if it means it prices it out of reach for me. Steven Ng 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) Obviously these artists would sell cheaper if they needed the money. When Sal A started repping Bill Sienkiewicz it seemed as if a zero was added to the prices, and not in front. I have talked to Bill about it and he just kinda laughs about it and then I look through whatever he has with him and maybe buy something direct. But he said that Sal does get him some sales so it works. Now I just have to get him to bring the right Hendrix piece to a show I am at because there is no way I am paying Sal's prices even though I want one badly! Edited January 2, 2018 by Bird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkininkin Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Michael Browning said: Wow, any of the modern artists. I can remember when the Jim Lee art for Batman and Superman was selling for thousands a page and then people who bought had a hard time selling for what they paid and many took a loss. Ever try to buy any Greg Capullo art from Batman? I think you can look at just about any modern comic artist and see how high the prices are. At the risk of sounding self serving, and in regards to the Batman Hush art specifically, I'll disagree with you. While we priced the Hush art significantly higher than all of our other contemporary offerings of the time, the pricing structure has about doubled at a minimum over the last 15 years, though it didn't happen immediately but took some years for the prices to appreciate . Again, as the inker of the series, this can sound like self interest, but them's the facts specific to Hush art. On some of the other art that came after, well, your mileage may vary. Scott Twanj, alxjhnsn, GotSuperPowers? and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Browning Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 56 minutes ago, stinkininkin said: At the risk of sounding self serving, and in regards to the Batman Hush art specifically, I'll disagree with you. While we priced the Hush art significantly higher than all of our other contemporary offerings of the time, the pricing structure has about doubled at a minimum over the last 15 years, though it didn't happen immediately but took some years for the prices to appreciate . Again, as the inker of the series, this can sound like self interest, but them's the facts specific to Hush art. On some of the other art that came after, well, your mileage may vary. Scott I'm glad you commented, Scott, and I don't think you sound self-serving at all. I was mentioning that case because I knew stories of collectors who paid the then-high prices for the Hush art and then when they had to resell, had to take a loss. Now, flash forward 15 years, and, yes, those prices have caught up and some pieces have doubled what was paid for them back then. But, in all fairness, it took a while to get there. And I mean no harm when I mention the Hush pieces, it's just those that stood out in my mind when I was making my example. Several years ago, I tried to buy a cover from an artist working on one of the DC One Year Later titles. I loved the cover and wanted it very badly, but, the artist via his art rep was asking WAY too much for it and I passed on it. Someone else bought many of those covers and I saw some for sale years later at a fraction of what the then-owner had paid for them. And this wasn't a "hot" artist then and the artist still isn't "hot" today. But, because he had an art agent who was pumping him up and the comic was hot for a minute, he was selling his art way too high. When I look on the website today, 13 years later, I still see the art sitting at the prices that were too high back when the COMIC was hot and it could have sold had it been cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NelsonAI Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I tend to analyze modern art in terms of established artists versus newer artists. 1) Established artists with long track records of increasing re-sale prices. Names already mentioned in this thread: Jim Lee, J. Scott Campbell, Sienkiewicz, Alex Ross, etc. These artists are considered superstars in the industry. They have a track record. Their prices have increased as their popularity increased. There is a reason why a new Jim Lee piece of art sells for more than a vintage piece of Bob Brown art. Not everyone can afford the higher prices, but a few can so the art is priced that way. 2) Newer artists that no one is familiar with or artists not considered superstars. These artists are starting to ask for healthy prices. In some cases, they are finding buyers at their price points. When an artist has a limited track record, this is where most collectors have issue with high prices for modern era art with no associated premium for nostalgia. My 2 cents. Cheers! N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will_K Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 If you're getting new art from the artist and/or their agent, you're paying what they "want" for it. It's their art. So let them come up with their price. However, I have to say that the pricing seems relatively "flip-proof". As has been mentioned, you'd be very lucky to get back what you paid for the art. That has nothing to do with buying art as an "investment". Rather, you're selling under duress or to pay for another piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twanj Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I hope established artists have flip-proof prices. They deserve it. I definitely want them making the profit, not a flipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will_K Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Twanj said: I hope established artists have flip-proof prices. They deserve it. I definitely want them making the profit, not a flipper. Exactly. They've seen art sell for big bucks. They've even seen their own art sell for big bucks. Why should some random guy make more $$$ than the actual artist ?? Edited January 2, 2018 by Will_K alxjhnsn and theflashunc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusicblue Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bill C said: I like crazy prices on new art, it makes me feel better about my copper age purchase prices. (Rising tide and all that?) I get you (kinda the same for me), though it’s like 1 copy vs. 5,000,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquareChaos Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Twanj said: I hope established artists have flip-proof prices. They deserve it. I definitely want them making the profit, not a flipper. I think everyone wants the artists to do well, the obvious crux of this whole discussion being that said markups limit the ability of some fans to acquire said pieces. We should all be used to it at this point in our lives, we can't all have everything we desire... until the bottom drops out and said fan is able to show up with a fist full of dollars like an opportunistic vulture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 12 hours ago, Bird said: Obviously these artists would sell cheaper if they needed the money. When Sal A started repping Bill Sienkiewicz it seemed as if a zero was added to the prices, and not in front. I have talked to Bill about it and he just kinda laughs about it and then I look through whatever he has with him and maybe buy something direct. But he said that Sal does get him some sales so it works. Now I just have to get him to bring the right Hendrix piece to a show I am at because there is no way I am paying Sal's prices even though I want one badly! Now there's someone I have been trying to get a piece from for over two years. It's like he abandoned his website (until Sal took it over). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
