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A Dealer's Pricing
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116 posts in this topic

On 1/4/2018 at 8:35 PM, theflashunc said:

I just assume anything the Donnellys have -- and they have some Paul Ryan FF art I'd be thrilled to own -- as just having been lost in a fire somewhere. 

They're not dealers in any traditional sense, between the altered covers, outrageous pricing and all the rest. They're more collectors using the veneer of the business to their own advantages. 

Ha!

A collector friend of mine warned me early on about them when I was starting out in this awesome hobby.... if you ever want a piece and you discover it is owned by "The Lobotomy Brothers" considered it lost and burnt in a fire. You will get no where with them and only raise your blood pressure.  My friend was spot on.

I inquired about a random nonsense panel page that should have been around $150. They sent me the price of 20 pages. All were already overpriced averaging $400. Of course the 1 page I asked for happen to be more (imagine that).  I hated the thought of overpaying so much so I deliberated for a bit. I went back to them to say ok lets do it. They said 2 other people were interested in the same random page which insinuated I would have to offer more than there already outrageous price.  

Its still there for sale a year later. 

Edited by dirtymartini1
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49 minutes ago, dirtymartini1 said:

Ha!

A collector friend of mine warned me early on about them when I was starting out in this awesome hobby.... if you ever want a piece and you discover it is owned by "The Lobotomy Brothers" considered it lost and burnt in a fire. You will get no where with them and only raise your blood pressure.  My friend was spot on.

I inquired about a random nonsense panel page that should have been around $150. They sent me the price of 20 pages. All were already overpriced averaging $400. Of course the 1 page I asked for happen to be more (imagine that).  I hated the thought of overpaying so much so I deliberated for a bit. I went back to them to say ok lets do it. They said 2 other people were interested in the same random page which insinuated I would have to offer more than there already outrageous price.  

Its still there for sale a year later. 

It'll be there in 2028 too. The price will be about $1900 by that time.

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22 hours ago, alxjhnsn said:

Reposted so I could change an image. The original post is here.

----

I

 They now show it on their site as:

image.png.8af7082bf4c161c0829e7b9336cc32d2.png

Note the words on the base of the statue.

 A conversation on the Curt Swan FB fan page led to an e-mail conversation with Steve. Steve told me in that note that:
 
  Steve Donneley said:
As our web site mentions, the large center Superman figure by Curt Swan was the only original art ever created for this cover. The four side images were stats taken from images of earlier reprinted stories and were missing from the original when I bought it.
 
"The 4 side images on the 1963 annual were originally stat'ed from earlier Superman stories and were hand redrawn for this cover"
 
So, I had the missing stats redrawn and placed on the original art board in the exact position that the DC production material would have gone!
 
  •  

That's really insightful, thanks for sharing.  Two questions:

(1) If the art was drawn for the statuette (prior to the cover), this implies it was just another stat on the Superman cover.  While it is a stretch to describe as "the only original art created for this cover", the statement is true but not fully transparent without the add'l details

(2) Steve says he had stats redrawn and "placed on the original art board". If the statuette drawing was done on separate board, then Steve had to recreate the art board from a copy or use a blank World Color or Sparta board that was not original.  To me, this crosses the line to deception, if not fraud. If Steve had to write the "7  x 10 1/2" and other margin elements (ie, "Sch Apr 1963" or other notes) than it is clearly meant to deceive and con a potential sucker-- er, buyer.

Finally, your comment about "a collector in disguise....they use the dealer advantages" is probably spot on but no harm there as lots of dealers (and a growing number of hybrid collector-dealers) are doing this as differences have blurred over the years.  I'm more concerned about the Brothers' reputation, to paraphrase:  "PRICE like a collector, BUY like an art dealer, SELL like a used car dealer and CREATE like an artist."
 

 

Edited by GreatEscape
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11 hours ago, GreatEscape said:

That's really insightful, thanks for sharing.  Two questions:

(1) If the art was drawn for the statuette (prior to the cover), this implies it was just another stat on the Superman cover.  While it is a stretch to describe as "the only original art created for this cover", the statement is true but not fully transparent without the add'l details

(2) Steve says he had stats redrawn and "placed on the original art board". If the statuette drawing was done on separate board, then Steve had to recreate the art board from a copy or use a blank World Color or Sparta board that was not original.  To me, this crosses the line to deception, if not fraud. If Steve had to write the "7  x 10 1/2" and other margin elements (ie, "Sch Apr 1963" or other notes) than it is clearly meant to deceive and con a potential sucker-- er, buyer.

Finally, your comment about "a collector in disguise....they use the dealer advantages" is probably spot on but no harm there as lots of dealers (and a growing number of hybrid collector-dealers) are doing this as differences have blurred over the years.  I'm more concerned about the Brothers' reputation, to paraphrase:  "PRICE like a collector, BUY like an art dealer, SELL like a used car dealer and CREATE like an artist."
 

 

Smells like misrepresentation all the way!

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4 hours ago, Lobstrosity said:

I find the brothers' ethics repulsive, but I'm wondering, has anyone ever discussed their reputations with them? Surely they must be aware of their public perception?

and more important....if their reputation is so bad, why are they still allowed to have a booth at conventions, or to advertise on CAF for example?

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2 hours ago, visarspike said:

and more important....if their reputation is so bad, why are they still allowed to have a booth at conventions, or to advertise on CAF for example?

For the simple reason that it is a buyer’s basic responsibility to know what the buyer is buying. Some of their actions are what I would consider to be fraudulent, which falls outside of caveat emptor, or violates some other legal rules, but for the most part, the biggest complaints are that their prices are too high. When I have gone to shows, they do have pieces, generally of lesser quality or desirability, which are not terribly priced. And, they do make sales. To be clear: I am not a fan or an apologist for bad behavior. I just try to look at it with dispassion.
 

There is a piece coming up which they apparently consigned to Heritage which opens for bids on 6/19. It is a mediocre Jim Aparo cover from the Phantom Stranger run with a woman in front of a treasure chest. Albert Moye had been trying to sell it for several years at $8,000 without success. In March, 2019, it showed up at the Donnelly’s booth at the NJ comic art convention. There, it was on sale for $11,000. I am very curious to see what they get for it, and if they will likely make money. My guess is they should at least break even, which suggests their pricing has not been madness, at least in that one instance.

Edited by Rick2you2
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On 6/9/2020 at 5:16 AM, Rick2you2 said:

There is a piece coming up which they apparently consigned to Heritage which opens for bids on 6/19. It is a mediocre Jim Aparo cover from the Phantom Stranger run with a woman in front of a treasure chest. Albert Moye had been trying to sell it for several years at $8,000 without success. In March, 2019, it showed up at the Donnelly’s booth at the NJ comic art convention. There, it was on sale for $11,000. I am very curious to see what they get for it, and if they will likely make money. My guess is they should at least break even, which suggests their pricing has not been madness, at least in that one instance.

I cited this thread recently and reread it. I realized that it was left on a cliffhanger. 
 

“How well did the Bros. price the cover?” I wondered. 
 

The answer? Albert Moy was a little high and Los Bros were way off the market price. 
 

The Donnelly price: $11,000

The Moy price: $8000

The Heritage price including BP: $7200

image.thumb.png.7520e194fddf1082bc2106ea54ffde77.png

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On 8/23/2023 at 3:56 PM, alxjhnsn said:

I cited this thread recently and reread it. I realized that it was left on a cliffhanger. 
 

“How well did the Bros. price the cover?” I wondered. 
 

The answer? Albert Moy was a little high and Los Bros were way off the market price. 
 

The Donnelly price: $11,000

The Moy price: $8000

The Heritage price including BP: $7200

image.thumb.png.7520e194fddf1082bc2106ea54ffde77.png

It's nice to be wrong. Although, it would likely bring more now.

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On 8/28/2023 at 12:47 PM, MAR1979 said:

San Mateo Bros loves playing them Mind Games. Gives them a smug sense of self satisfaction.  Yet unbelievably there is one Boston based OA art dealer who is far worse.

At the show yesterday, I saw an Alan Moore page from one of the Phantom Stranger’s origin stories, without the lead character, with Orlando’s art. for $3,700. I bought one with the character a few years ago for around $600.

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On 8/28/2023 at 1:39 PM, Rick2you2 said:

At the show yesterday, I saw an Alan Moore page from one of the Phantom Stranger’s origin stories, without the lead character, with Orlando’s art. for $3,700. I bought one with the character a few years ago for around $600.

knowing those involved i question if the page was even from the Moore story. 3/4 of the book was not. U positive it was from the moore  orlando story?

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On 8/28/2023 at 2:34 PM, MAR1979 said:

knowing those involved i question if the page was even from the Moore story. 3/4 of the book was not. U positive it was from the moore  orlando story?

When it comes to Phantom Stranger stories, hell yeh. Besides, it was even written on the top, Phantom Stranger. Secret Origins no. 10. I have page 3. He has p. 4. 
Of the other 3 stories, one has recently shown up as individual pages (Colon), one exists as a whole story (Garcia-Lopez), and one is still missing (Aparo). So is the cover, by Aparo, a hot item.

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