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ASM 100 and Cosmic art?!
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291 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, Panelfan1 said:

if you are confident it will exceed 1k, and that is your maximum -why bother bidding? ha offers tracking without bids. I usually only bid on things I think I have a chance at.

Because maybe you'll hit the jackpot and win it for your tracking bid.  It happens sometimes.  

Put another way, what's the downside to putting in a tracking bid?  It takes only slightly more effort than hitting the tracking button.

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16 hours ago, AnkurJ said:

Sadly nothing new. Practically every collectible market has some level of manipulation. 

Depends on how public and transparent the sales are at auction.  Rats live in darkness and avoid the light.

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I am sure the story has some nostalgic value but I don't think the book itself is all that important.   The image, however, functions like a poster for Spider-man, and it can appeal to virtually any Spider-man fan, regardless of which comics era they remember from childhood or even if they are just fans of the films.   

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On 1/9/2018 at 8:58 PM, bluechip said:

I am sure the story has some nostalgic value but I don't think the book itself is all that important.   The image, however, functions like a poster for Spider-man, and it can appeal to virtually any Spider-man fan, regardless of which comics era they remember from childhood or even if they are just fans of the films.   

I own all but a couple pages to asm 100... 1 of my favorite issues......I owned this asm #100 cover and I sold it around 2006...i tried to buy it back from the owner a few months ago privately. i offered him 250k GREEN..... FLOWN TO HIM BY ME and he passed on my offer... He said he feels it will sell for more....... (which means it will have to sell OVER 300k at auction for him to get more than my offer.........)  we'll see if that happens.

This cover is inked by Frank Giacoia and "NOT ROMITA".... I honestly feel this hurts the value some as all of the background characters look as if they are half drawn.....John Romita would have put a lot more effort into the inking had he inked this cover himself. Only the kingpin image is penciled and inked by John Romita and for me personally, it's easy to see how nice that image looks versus the rest of the background characters. MJ and Gwen look off some and not like fully detailed Romita images.....so in hindsight....after thinking it all over...... i'm glad he turned down my offer as i'll wait for a twice up goody in the future and we will all see if it sells for less than my offer. :)

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41 minutes ago, romitaman said:

as all of the background characters look as if they are half drawn.....John Romita would have put a lot more effort into the inking had he inked this cover himself. Only the kingpin image is penciled and inked by John Romita and for me personally, it's easy to see how nice that image looks versus the rest of the background characters. MJ and Gwen look off some and not like fully detailed Romita images

Thanks for pointing that out. It's an astute observation. I think the intent may have been to ink the background characters with less line weight in order to make the foreground Spidey "pop" more, but as you say, it might hurt it ever so slightly as a piece of standalone OA.

Here's the published cover-

AmazingSpiderMan_v01_0100.jpg

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1 hour ago, 1webslinger said:

Check out mysterio's face on the original art , lower right hand corner of cover 

That's really interesting.  I guess someone decided to fix 2 Kingpins with a strategically placed banner.  Never hit me that it was so strangely-angled, but I'll never not see it now.  

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7 hours ago, romitaman said:

I own all but a couple pages to asm 100... 1 of my favorite issues......I owned this asm #100 cover and I sold it around 2006...i tried to buy it back from the owner a few months ago privately. i offered him 250k GREEN..... FLOWN TO HIM BY ME and he passed on my offer... He said he feels it will sell for more....... (which means it will have to sell OVER 300k at auction for him to get more than my offer.........)  we'll see if that happens.

This cover is inked by Frank Giacoia and "NOT ROMITA".... I honestly feel this hurts the value some as all of the background characters look as if they are half drawn.....John Romita would have put a lot more effort into the inking had he inked this cover himself. Only the kingpin image is penciled and inked by John Romita and for me personally, it's easy to see how nice that image looks versus the rest of the background characters. MJ and Gwen look off some and not like fully detailed Romita images.....so in hindsight....after thinking it all over...... i'm glad he turned down my offer as i'll wait for a twice up goody in the future and we will all see if it sells for less than my offer. :)

Better to have the background characters lightly inked than not to have them at all.   To the kind of Spider-man fan who came to it via the movies and not the comics, a piece like this might be more desirable than one from an even more admired issue with a cover that feels less like a standalone sum-it-all-up kind of piece, the way this one is.   

To that kind of fan the Giacoia inks might not lessen it; but it might to an art connoisseur dabbling in comic-related art; they would probably prefer something more purely by one artist.

As to the quality of the inks, it seemed to me that Romita felt Mooney and Giacoia and Kane brought things to his art, and that he adjusted his own inks to incorporate flourishes of their own work into his inks.  Soon after Mooney began inking Romita, you can see Romita inking his own work just a bit more like Mooney did.     And same with Giacoia.   This is especially so when he did corrections/revisions on pieces they had inked.   Romita is a great artist who is still underappreciated despite his acclaim because he could mimic stylistic elements from almost any artist but unlike many copyists his own instincts can't be held back, so you end up with something better than a copy and greater than its stylistic parts,

 

 

 

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On 1/13/2018 at 6:13 AM, romitaman said:

I own all but a couple pages to asm 100... 1 of my favorite issues......I owned this asm #100 cover and I sold it around 2006...i tried to buy it back from the owner a few months ago privately. i offered him 250k GREEN..... FLOWN TO HIM BY ME and he passed on my offer... He said he feels it will sell for more....... (which means it will have to sell OVER 300k at auction for him to get more than my offer.........)  we'll see if that happens.

This cover is inked by Frank Giacoia and "NOT ROMITA".... I honestly feel this hurts the value some as all of the background characters look as if they are half drawn.....John Romita would have put a lot more effort into the inking had he inked this cover himself. Only the kingpin image is penciled and inked by John Romita and for me personally, it's easy to see how nice that image looks versus the rest of the background characters. MJ and Gwen look off some and not like fully detailed Romita images.....so in hindsight....after thinking it all over...... i'm glad he turned down my offer as i'll wait for a twice up goody in the future and we will all see if it sells for less than my offer. :)

Hi Mike,

I have a ton of respect for you not just as a business person, but as a genuine fan of comic book artwork. You are a passionate comic art fan and zealot, and that above all else I most respect about you.

But with that said, in the kindest of ways, I have a small criticism of you. And I sincerely hope that you do NOT take my criticism as a personal affront against you. I do not think that it is appropriate that you comment on "value", "price" and the market in general, especially as regards ROMITA comic book art. You should not be managing perception as regards "floors" and ceilings" on comic book art. Certainly not in a public forum. Privately is a different matter.

A lot of other people in the hobby, Stephen Fischler, Vincent Zurzolo, and others DO NOT impute their belief on valuation into the market place, and I respect them for that.  They recognize the inherent "conflict of interest" in doing so. They are market makers. Like you !

As such, in the kindest of ways, may I remind you that you are a leader in this hobby, and that your voice carries greater weight than other posters. Please be careful when expressing your opinions on the market place, as I do believe it effects "perceptions" and valuation, which we all know, can be easily manipulated.

If you are a buyer, be a buyer. If you are a seller, be a seller, but I do not think it is appropriate for you to "manage perception" as to what you believe is the ceiling on a piece, that you have already expressed an interest. To me it seems like a conflict of interest.

 

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On 1/13/2018 at 12:13 PM, romitaman said:

I own all but a couple pages to asm 100... 1 of my favorite issues......I owned this asm #100 cover and I sold it around 2006...i tried to buy it back from the owner a few months ago privately. i offered him 250k GREEN..... FLOWN TO HIM BY ME and he passed on my offer... He said he feels it will sell for more....... (which means it will have to sell OVER 300k at auction for him to get more than my offer.........)  we'll see if that happens.

This cover is inked by Frank Giacoia and "NOT ROMITA".... I honestly feel this hurts the value some as all of the background characters look as if they are half drawn.....John Romita would have put a lot more effort into the inking had he inked this cover himself. Only the kingpin image is penciled and inked by John Romita and for me personally, it's easy to see how nice that image looks versus the rest of the background characters. MJ and Gwen look off some and not like fully detailed Romita images.....so in hindsight....after thinking it all over...... i'm glad he turned down my offer as i'll wait for a twice up goody in the future and we will all see if it sells for less than my offer. :)

Sorry Mike, but I have very strong issues with your statement.  

First of all, I can't even understand how you can disclose the details of a private transaction on a public forum. You're a professionnal art dealer !

Even if it didn't go all the way, I really don't think any collector would appreciate that... People can choose the way they want to sell their art and have details kept private.

 

Secondly, and this is much more important, concerns the way you now consider the piece and discuss it on a public forum, after it escaped you.

As you were one of the previous owner of the piece, you know it really well, and have looked at it for some time. Not so long ago, you still liked it  so much you were ready to buy it back for a strong price. But now, suddenly, because there was no agreement on your proposal, and the art is being auctioned, you decide to lower the value of this particular piece on a public forum. By insisting on the "not so good-looking" background characters. The same ones which are a major part of the piece you loved so much a few months ago.  And that you owned many years ago.

And please do respect our intelligence, and don't even dare to say it's a casual conversation, cause it's not. You're a major buyer, bidder, and underbidder, and you know the game. The way you just acted is  what some people do when they want to scare away the competition. Even if that's not the case here, that's far from elegant. And also unprofessionnal.     

I would expect much more from a collector with so many years of experience, and can't accept that from a dealer. I don't know how any collector reading that would not have major trust issues when thinking about future deals. 

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On 1/14/2018 at 3:45 PM, Peter G said:

Hi Mike,

I have a ton of respect for you not just as a business person, but as a genuine fan of comic book artwork. You are a passionate comic art fan and zealot, and that above all else I most respect about you.

But with that said, in the kindest of ways, I have a small criticism of you. And I sincerely hope that you do NOT take my criticism as a personal affront against you. I do not think that it is appropriate that you comment on "value", "price" and the market in general, especially as regards ROMITA comic book art. You should not be managing perception as regards "floors" and ceilings" on comic book art. Certainly not in a public forum. Privately is a different matter.

A lot of other people in the hobby, Stephen Fischler, Vincent Zurzolo, and others DO NOT impute their belief on valuation into the market place, and I respect them for that.  They recognize the inherent "conflict of interest" in doing so. They are market makers. Like you !

As such, in the kindest of ways, may I remind you that you are a leader in this hobby, and that your voice carries greater weight than other posters. Please be careful when expressing your opinions on the market place, as I do believe it effects "perceptions" and valuation, which we all know, can be easily manipulated.

If you are a buyer, be a buyer. If you are a seller, be a seller, but I do not think it is appropriate for you to "manage perception" as to what you believe is the ceiling on a piece, that you have already expressed an interest. To me it seems like a conflict of interest.

 

This is a joke, right?  Right before the Action #1 eBay acton, Zurzolo did an interview in 2014 saying "well it's nice that another 9.0 came forward, but that is probably going to hurt the final price, because now there are 2 and when WE sold the last one for 2.1 million, it was the only one" Or something to that affect.  Then guess what, turns out he won the eBay auction on behalf of Hariri.  

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27 minutes ago, jaybuck43 said:

This is a joke, right?  Right before the Action #1 eBay acton, Zurzolo did an interview in 2014 saying "well it's nice that another 9.0 came forward, but that is probably going to hurt the final price, because now there are 2 and when WE sold the last one for 2.1 million, it was the only one" Or something to that affect.  Then guess what, turns out he won the eBay auction on behalf of Hariri.  

I vaguely recall a controversy from many years ago where Fishler may have cast aspersions upon a Steranko piece which showed up at auction. Which he then proceeded to win.

Someone can find it in the comicart-l archives.

Never mind, I found it:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/comicart-l/conversations/topics/253824

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/comicart-l/conversations/topics/257341

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/comicart-l/search/messages?query=Fishler FOOM

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15 minutes ago, Nexus said:

I vaguely recall a controversy from many years ago where Fishler may have cast aspersions upon a Steranko piece which showed up at auction. Which he then proceeded to win.

Someone can find it in the comicart-l archives.

Never mind, I found it:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/comicart-l/conversations/topics/253824

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/comicart-l/conversations/topics/257341

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/comicart-l/search/messages?query=Fishler FOOM

I haven't read the links, but I really don't have a problem with that.

Everyone should form their own opinions.

 

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