Nexus Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bronty said: Well exactly. The whole "you're a professional art dealer, shame on you" bit is such a farce. Let's think about the top echelon of art dealers in the world, the fine art guys. They 'manage perception' all the time, I would argue. Its sort of part of the gig. No question. But the issue here is publicly denigrating a piece at auction...that you may be trying to win. And, to be fair, it's not like any shenanigans are limited only to dealers. They just have the highest profile, so their words tend to have the widest reach and most impact. Peter G 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimpehulk Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 So mike shares some insider information and his own opinion and we blast him. At least his stories are interesting and entertaining. His perspective is also unique being he actually owned this iconic piece. Regarding said statement about giacoia or for that matter any inker other the penciled artist, all he is trying to point out is art done by one artist penciled and inked may be more valuable. Sheer numbers show that examples that are both penciled and inked are more rare. I like giacoia on almost any artist. If mike wants to save his money for a 2 up cover or even ends up in the hunt or winning this one so what. His candor and stories are entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, vodou said: I'm not sure you can. Taking Mike's comment at face value (so no ulterior motives or false information given)...at a minimum, if you pay more than $250k (maybe even less than if Mike wouldn't pay that anymore as he suggests) then you've lost at least once potential customer when it's re-sale time, at least in the near term. That's valuable information IF there's no BS factor involved (which...c'mon...we know there is ) This piece goes to my whole "John Romita Spider-Man art is overvalued" argument. That this cover would go for $300K, or even $250K, is silly to me. But, I suppose if there are two or 3 hobbyists willing to pay that kind of coin for this stuff (and they are not close to retirement or death), anyone who has these pieces should cash in now, while they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, dirtymartini1 said: I'm confused. So is giving your 2 cents on a piece you used to own, wanted to own again, then negatively critiqued publicly more offensive, as offensive, less offensive or none of the above as shilling your own pieces at auction? There is so much OA etiquette to learn, I wish someone would write up a rule book. The only iron rule I can see is that you are not allowed to name the big time players, and can only refer to them obliquely, or by their initials, when you are talking of their exploits, or their pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter G Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, trimpehulk said: So mike shares some insider information and his own opinion and we blast him. At least his stories are interesting and entertaining. His perspective is also unique being he actually owned this iconic piece. Regarding said statement about giacoia or for that matter any inker other the penciled artist, all he is trying to point out is art done by one artist penciled and inked may be more valuable. Sheer numbers show that examples that are both penciled and inked are more rare. I like giacoia on almost any artist. If mike wants to save his money for a 2 up cover or even ends up in the hunt or winning this one so what. His candor and stories are entertaining. Your comment is an indication that people in America get stupider every year. Sad ? ——— Load up on guns Bring your friends It's fun to lose and to pretend She's overboard, self assured Oh no I know, a dirty word Hello, hello, hello, how low [x3] Hello, hello, hello With the lights out, it's less dangerous Here we are now, entertain us I feel stupid and contagious Here we are now, entertain us A mulatto, an Albino A mosquito, my libido, yeah Hey, yay I'm worse at what I do best And for this gift, I feel blessed Our little group has always been And always will until the end Hello, hello, hello, how low [x3] Hello, hello, hello With the lights out, it's less dangerous Here we are now, entertain us I feel stupid and contagious Here we are now, entertain us A mulatto, an Albino A mosquito, my libido, yeah Hey, yay And I forget just why I taste Oh yeah, I guess it makes me smile I found it hard, it was hard to find Oh well, whatever, nevermind Hello, hello, hello, how low [x3] Hello, hello, hello With the lights out, it's less dangerous Here we are now, entertain us I feel stupid and contagious Here we are now, entertain us A mulatto, an Albino A mosquito, my libido A denial, A denial, A denial, A denial, A denial A denial, A denial, A denial, A denial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Marwood & I Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Bronty said: - "I am not going to pick a fight" followed by 'insult' - I hate everyone in the hobby Hey, maybe the problem is you? Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter G Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, comix4fun said: So I’m a troll just because I express my opinion that immoral behavior is immoral? Im waiting for you to call me racist next. Regardless, my main point still stands. Burkey revealed himself to be a manipulator. kbmcvay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimpehulk Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, Peter G said: Your comment is an indication that people in America get stupider every year. Sad ? ——— Load up on guns Bring your friends It's fun to lose and to pretend She's overboard, self assured Oh no I know, a dirty word Hello, hello, hello, how low [x3] Hello, hello, hello With the lights out, it's less dangerous Here we are now, entertain us I feel stupid and contagious Here we are now, entertain us A mulatto, an Albino A mosquito, my libido, yeah Hey, yay I'm worse at what I do best And for this gift, I feel blessed Our little group has always been And always will until the end Hello, hello, hello, how low [x3] Hello, hello, hello With the lights out, it's less dangerous Here we are now, entertain us I feel stupid and contagious Here we are now, entertain us A mulatto, an Albino A mosquito, my libido, yeah Hey, yay And I forget just why I taste Oh yeah, I guess it makes me smile I found it hard, it was hard to find Oh well, whatever, nevermind Hello, hello, hello, how low [x3] Hello, hello, hello With the lights out, it's less dangerous Here we are now, entertain us I feel stupid and contagious Here we are now, entertain us A mulatto, an Albino A mosquito, my libido A denial, A denial, A denial, A denial, A denial A denial, A denial, A denial, A denial Bored title of chatzilla perfect for you a lizard with a long tongue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter G Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, trimpehulk said: Bored title of chatzilla perfect for you a lizard with a long tongue. What do u care what my board title is ? You just want to be entertained ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Peter G said: So I’m a troll just because I express my opinion that immoral behavior is immoral? Im waiting for you to call me racist next. Regardless, my main point still stands. Burkey revealed himself to be a manipulator. No, you're called a troll because you are incapable of making your point, defending your point, or conversing with another person without resorting to insults, condescension, and rudeness. You could make your point without any of the above, but you choose an unnecessarily combative course of dialogue instead. I love a good debate and discussion, but the way you do it is a waste of everyone's time including your own. Your tenor and tone is also why people place you on their "ignore" lists, as there's nothing constructive that comes from interaction with you. Edited January 17, 2018 by comix4fun trimpehulk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter G Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, comix4fun said: No, you're called a troll, because you are incapable of making your point, defending your point, or conversing with another person without resorting to insults, condescension, and rudeness. You could make your point without any of the above, but you choose an unnecessarily combative course of dialogue instead. I love a good debate and discussion, but the way you do it is a waste of everyone's time including your own. Your tenor and tone is also why people place you on their "ignore" lists, as there's nothing constructive that comes from interaction with you. Whatever. Im done. You want to defend Burkey and his manipulative shenanigans, it’s on you and ur ilk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Peter G said: Whatever. Im done. You want to defend Burkey and his manipulative shenanigans, it’s on you and ur ilk Exactly what I was saying...thank you for the illustration. and now back to where I had you before I explained why I had you there: trimpehulk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimpehulk Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, Peter G said: What do u care what my board title is ? You just want to be entertained ? Mike discussing his stories is not a problem with me. They do have value just because you don't agree is your warped view. Your board title says enough about you not entertaining or interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nexus said: No question. But the issue here is publicly denigrating a piece at auction...that you may be trying to win. And, to be fair, it's not like any shenanigans are limited only to dealers. They just have the highest profile, so their words tend to have the widest reach and most impact. Okay, but where's the denigration Felix [(you professional manager of perception, you ) (And doing a great job of it)]? All I recall Mike saying is that the background faces weren't quite up to snuff. That's not exactly earthshaking criticism and similar comments could be made of any number of pieces. I just don't see the big deal and if Peter G wants to focus all his energy on it... well... I think there are better uses of that energy. Edited January 16, 2018 by Bronty trimpehulk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, Bronty said: Okay, but where's the denigration Felix [(you professional manager of perception, you ) (And doing a great job of it)]? All I recall Mike saying is that the background faces weren't quite up to snuff. That's not exactly earthshaking criticism and similar comments could be made of any number of pieces. I just don't see the big deal and if Peter G wants to focus all his energy on it... well... I think there are better uses of that energy. Mike said essentially "He turned down my $250K offer, and I'm now glad he did, because ....." That's a market signal that a major potential buyer is not willing to pay that much for the piece. That effects it's value. Peter G 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said: Mike said essentially "He turned down my $250K offer, and I'm now glad he did, because ....." That's a market signal that a major potential buyer is not willing to pay that much for the piece. That effects it's value. I give you credit... ...you managed to say that without being a complete jerk about it. You've proven that it IS possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said: Mike said essentially "He turned down my $250K offer, and I'm now glad he did, because ....." That's a market signal that a major potential buyer is not willing to pay that much for the piece. That effects it's value. I get that, but there are two sides to every coin. An equally legitimate perspective on it would be that a $250k offer was publicized, and that number has been thrown out there for public consumption. Lets say I like it and I was thinking of bidding $200k. I am now thinking I have to step my game up and consider 300k if I'm going to be serious about winning. Mike has put a benchmark number out there in other words, and that can *help* the seller too let's not forget. He's legitimized that a major buyer was willing to pay 250k at one point. At the end of the day its going to sell for what it sells for. And if someone bids more or less because of what Mike posts I don't feel sorry for them. This is not a regulated market. Not everyone is going to play nice and not everyone is always going to say what they mean. If you're going to be in the market, you need to have your eyes open. You need to think about comments made in terms of how they could help price, how they could hurt price, and what the motivations behind the comments might be. No one here owes anyone else anything except dealing fairly and ethically. This is not a piece Mike has for sale. it is at public auction.. and everyone can bid whatever they like. Edited January 16, 2018 by Bronty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, trimpehulk said: So mike shares some insider information and his own opinion and we blast him. At least his stories are interesting and entertaining. His perspective is also unique being he actually owned this iconic piece. Regarding said statement about giacoia or for that matter any inker other the penciled artist, all he is trying to point out is art done by one artist penciled and inked may be more valuable. Sheer numbers show that examples that are both penciled and inked are more rare. I like giacoia on almost any artist. If mike wants to save his money for a 2 up cover or even ends up in the hunt or winning this one so what. His candor and stories are entertaining. I agree that these stories are entertaining. Linework discussion always has a place here. This is more about the timing of said discussion, being that the piece is up for auction. Peter G 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glendgold Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 hours ago, dirtymartini1 said: I'm confused. So is giving your 2 cents on a piece you used to own, wanted to own again, then negatively critiqued publicly more offensive, as offensive, less offensive or none of the above as shilling your own pieces at auction? There is so much OA etiquette to learn, I wish someone would write up a rule book. This made me laugh. I like the cut of your jib. dirtymartini1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
